How do you scold your dog?
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    Angry How do you scold your dog?

    Im not sure on how or what I should do when they do something they shouldn't. I don't want to use my hand to disapline her b/c that will make her affraid of me. Do you punish them for accidents in the house (during house training process)and tearing things up?

    What do you suggest as punishment for a 13 week old puppy?

    I really want to be the best parent for her and for her to the happiest dog life I can give her. Im not sure how to make her mind without making her timid of me also. Any ideals on this?

    ~ Jessica and Bayli
    Last edited by jrene8; 11-27-2007 at 02:20 AM.

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    Senior Member cascabel's Avatar
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    Re: How do you scold your dog?

    You don't. There is absolutely no need to punish a 13 week old puppy, especially with regards to housetraining. This will only teach them to be afraid to eliminate in front of you and will set back their housebreaking.

    If your puppy is misbehaving then that means you are not properly confining or watching them when not confined. If the puppy gets into something, it is your fault and not theirs. So if you must punish someone, punish yourself.

    And if you truly want to be the best parent for her, then I would recommend reading the sticky at the top of the first time owner and basic questions forum which I have also linked to below:

    http://www.dogforums.com/19-first-ti...ining-how.html (Housetraining How To.....)

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    Senior Member tirluc's Avatar
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    Re: How do you scold your dog?

    sorry, i disagree....even a mother dog will discipline (notice i didn't say "punish") her pups......when i am raising/training a new puppy, and they do something wrong a sharp, quick "Uhhh, uhhh" is enuff to get their attention (same as a growl from mom) and if necessary a shake of the scruff of the neck (nothing harsh, you're not looking to hurt the pup) (again, same as Mom)......for pottying on the floor, i show them the spot, tell them gruffly "No, naughty" (maybe a few more words) and take them outside....as soon as the potty outside, i practically throw a party.....all my dogs have been house trained inside of 2 wks......i also use "umbilical cording" for house training so that i can catch them b/4 they have a chance to potty, this way they get more positive and very little negative......w/ all my Borders, i have "talks" w/ them when the do something wrong.....for them, it seems to work.....

    there is nothing wrong w/ disciplining any child if you want them to grow up well established adult citizens (and that goes for dogs as well as human kids)....and, no, it is not always the persons fault when the pup/dog does something wrong......you can't be there 24/7 to make sure that they don't get into mischief.....all you can do is try to make sure that things are in order so that nothing should happen......but puppies do need to be supervised or confined till they know the rules (pretty much for the first yr)....
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    Senior Member xxxlisaxxx's Avatar
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    Re: How do you scold your dog?

    Quote Originally Posted by tirluc View Post
    sorry, i disagree....even a mother dog will discipline (notice i didn't say "punish") her pups......when i am raising/training a new puppy, and they do something wrong a sharp, quick "Uhhh, uhhh" is enuff to get their attention (same as a growl from mom) and if necessary a shake of the scruff of the neck (nothing harsh, you're not looking to hurt the pup) (again, same as Mom)......for pottying on the floor, i show them the spot, tell them gruffly "No, naughty" (maybe a few more words) and take them outside....as soon as the potty outside, i practically throw a party.....all my dogs have been house trained inside of 2 wks......i also use "umbilical cording" for house training so that i can catch them b/4 they have a chance to potty, this way they get more positive and very little negative......w/ all my Borders, i have "talks" w/ them when the do something wrong.....for them, it seems to work.....

    there is nothing wrong w/ disciplining any child if you want them to grow up well established adult citizens (and that goes for dogs as well as human kids)....and, no, it is not always the persons fault when the pup/dog does something wrong......you can't be there 24/7 to make sure that they don't get into mischief.....all you can do is try to make sure that things are in order so that nothing should happen......but puppies do need to be supervised or confined till they know the rules (pretty much for the first yr)....

    I totally agree with this. I have owned 4 dogs in my time the first 3 dogs I owned were fully housetrained within 2 weeks of getting them so around 9 weeks they were able to tell me they wanted to go out and all because I showed them the spot by holding their noses to it (not being rough) and saying "no" and then putting them outside. With my Sammie who is 14 weeks I never did this (as i felt guilty after all the reading i did on how wrong it was to put their noses into it etc) he however is getting there but he is still not 100% and did not seem to have a care in the world if he did the "odd" accident inside. So I had to start showing him it was wrong by doing the other method. I only have about one accident inside the house within a week but one is still too many so within the last few days I have started this method. He has however started to learn to tell me he wants to go outside but he is not consistent. The lack of accidents is due to me wearing a path to the back door every hour or so.

    I also give a real loud sharp "ah ah" when I see a behaviour i dont like. As the saying goes if you dont want to have your dog doing certain things as an adult, dont let him do it while he is a puppy.
    Last edited by xxxlisaxxx; 11-27-2007 at 05:13 AM.

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    Re: How do you scold your dog?

    I totally agree that discipline is a must no matter what the age. What would happen if the pup was chewing on a electric cord, would you allow this to happen and blow the dogs teeth out?

    All of my three dogs know the command "stop" that was instilled in them during crate training at an early age. If they are doing something I don't approve of, they get the command.

    As far as discipline, if the infraction is more severe, they get a time out, alone in a closed bathroom for 15-20 minutes (no longer, they forget after that). Then we all make up. Rarely have I had to do more for mischief they have gotten in to, but I do have a few techniques tucked away just in case. My displeasure usually makes the point.

    I also agree that when a dog does something wrong, it's the fault of the human, not the dogs. Dogs will get into mischief if you let them.

    Anela

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    Re: How do you scold your dog?

    The ONLY time you should ever discipline a dog is if you catch them in the act of doing something they shouldnt and then a sharp no should be enough,
    There is no reason to ever discipline your dog using your hands
    Your dog should always associate your hands as something that is good that will reach down and pet him not hurt him!
    And 13 weeks is way too young for any discipline like that
    If there is a need to discipline my dog which is rarely,I tell her a sharp no and that is more than enough for her to realize that I didnt like what she did,
    And just remember NEVER discipline your dog for something they did hours ago only if you catch them in the act of being naughty

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    Senior Member Shaina's Avatar
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    Re: How do you scold your dog?

    I'm with War on this one. The only times I've corrected Kim is when she went on the floor in front of me (she was 5 months old at that point, definitely understood house training, and had been taken out less than an hour beforehand), and once when she tried to eat the couch. Both times she got a firm "no" and then redirected to an appropriate behavior (taken outside; shown her chew toy that had been sitting 2 feet away). I should note that in both cases I actually witnessed the behavior and caught it in the act.

    At 13 weeks old your dog probably can't hold her bladder very long at all...if you combine crate training and taking her out frequently, you shouldn't have a problem. Correction, especially physical correction, really isn't necessary.

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    Senior Member tirluc's Avatar
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    Re: How do you scold your dog?

    i, also, disagree on the "don't discipline unless caught in the act" theory.....my pups, if they had an accident in the house or chewed something they shouldn't or whatever, and i didn't see it happen, would still get a verbal reprimand for the discretion.....they did know what was wrong and they did "act" accordingly.....it was usually along the lines of (chair leg chewed) "what is this? this is a 'no'! you chew on your toys, not my furniture." and give them a chew toy......to this day, i can point to something that any of my dogs did (having 5 in the house and not always knowing which one "did it") say, "What is this?" and the guilty one, and only the guilty one, will react w/ a turn of the head (away) and looking ashamed....

    the idea that a dog doesn't remember what they did/what happened, even days b/4, doesn't wash.....if that were the case then how could a dog be trained for anything.....you can't say "repitition" as i have known dogs that have been trained something, and then it not used for months and the dog still remembers.....or they have lived somewhere for a long time, moved, and ever time they are taken back to that neighborhood they get excited.....my Lacey used to play w/ the HYPER DOG ball thrower (the sling shot) but i hadn't used the thing in over 2 yrs, had even sold it, but when i pulled one out recently to use to "shoot" geese off the river (no, i don't hit the geese, just close enuff to scare them) since we can't let the dogs out there to swim, she went literally nuts, wanting to play ball (forget the geese, she couldn't reach them anyways )......and on the "negative" side of remembering, a friend has a dog that had chewed his baseboard almost a yr ago....it was mentioned, in simple conversation, on how Caoimhe (Keeva) had chewed that and she slinked away and went to her crate.....there was no scolding voice, no showing it to her, anything....but she remembered......
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    Junior Member jhawk's Avatar
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    Re: How do you scold your dog?

    I agree a dog should be diciplined like any human child. NOt punished. Absolutely no hitting. As far as potty training goes a pup should be taken out practically every hour (my experience). When pup does there business go oveboard w/ the praise. Inside pup has to be watched constantly so if he/she has an accident you can catch them in the act and give a sharp NO or whatever you choose to use, then imediatly thake the pup out. For inappropriat behavior a stern NO is always good. and over praise for good behavior. the key is BE CONSISTANT.

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    Re: How do you scold your dog?

    Puddles trainer told me the same thing about correcting at the exact time a behavior is exhibited. Never after the fact. My front porch is where I keep my dogs in the evening before I am ready to have the herd in for the night. Back a few weeks ago when Ollie first came, Dozer was wanting to mark everything he could and in turn Ollie would follo suit. Then Puddles would think HEY MEE TOO! I can tell whos pee was whos..Puddles in the middle of the floor, Ollie a little squirt 4 inches high and Dozer has larger Drops. After a few days of working with them on it. I would walk out and search the perimeter and see which one done it, And the culprit would already be in their outdoor crate. They know...and they know well..Thanks be to god..Its over now. it took about 3 weeks but it is all overwith.. And I didnt have to say anything, they knew better. I would say the culprits name then say NOO..And go walk the peer. Dogs are not as stupid as some folks want you to think they are.

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    Senior Member sheltiemom's Avatar
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    Re: How do you scold your dog?

    At that age with my pups I was using "ah ah" with a hand clap when I caught them in the act of pottying in the house, chewing and whatnot. Then I would redirect them, if it was a potty accident I took them immediately outside, for chewing I gave them an appropriate chew toy. I don't have to correct them much anymore, they hardly ever get into things. I've never hit my dogs, I also don't punish them for things I didn't catch them doing. Occasionally for things like jumping up I'll turn my back and ignore, or rough play, toy hoarding, etc. gets them seperated behind a baby gate or the toys put away.
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    Senior Member prolibertate's Avatar
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    Re: How do you scold your dog?

    Jessica, it's great that you want to do this in a positive way for you and your puppy. That's going to help foster a great relationship between the two of you.

    First off, manage the environment...you need to puppy proof your home just as you would need to baby proof it for a newly crawling/walking baby. Keep her confined either in a crate or a pen when you can't supervise her. Also, tethering her to you while you're home is a good way to keep her out of trouble and to be able to notice when she needs to go potty. Puppies should be taken outside after they wake up, play, eat, and at 13 weeks at least every 1 1/2-2 hours otherwise. If a puppy has an accident in the house it's not her fault; it's ours for not watching her and making sure she got to her outside spot to go when she needed to go.

    Puppies can only hold it approximately 1 hour for every month of age, so 3 months = 3 hours, maybe If you have to be gone during the day for work, and if she's a small dog, you can use a ugodog (ugodog.net) placed in a baby-gated area, and continue to take her outside when your home. I do this with my Shih-Tzu and haven't had a problem yet.

    Also, at 13 weeks, your puppy is ready for puppy class; this will help with obedience and socialization. See if there's a good clicker training class in your area; the Internet or your vet might be able to suggest places, or perhaps someone you know who took their dog to a clicker class.

    Get the book Your Outta Control Puppy by Teoti Anderson (don't let the title throw you; it simply refers to puppy behavior ;>). And check out the books at the link below; there are many good articles at this site also. Whether or not you can find a local clicker class, these will show you how to do this at home with your dog and is the fastest and best way I've ever seen to train a puppy or an older dog.

    http://www.clickertraining.com/store/?item=index

    There are times I give a short 'uh uh' (not in a harsh voice) and this will distract the puppy long enough to get him interested in chewing something he's allowed to chew. Then I taught my puppy to 'leave it' (see link for how to do this http://www.clickertraining.com/node/57) so now when I see him doing something I don't want, like trying to chew something, I tell him to leave it...this also worked with inhibiting his nibbling on my hands, after I had also done the 'ouch' and walked away to soften his bite first.

    I don't believe any physical 'punishment' is ever needed; dogs don't understand it and all they learn is to fear their guardian. It's aggressive to the dog and I believe aggression begets aggression; at the minimum it begets fear of the person doing it. Also, physical correction such as neck scruffs, alpha rolls, etc., doesn't stop the behavior for good - it only stops it for right then...and this is when the dog figures out that he only has to not do this behavior when his guardian is there, and that when they're not then he can go to town. You want to teach your dog that the behavior is never acceptable, and that takes training, time, effort, patience and consistency.

    I've found that clicker training can work wonders with pretty much any behavior; even aggressive dogs have been desensitized to the things that set them off by using clicker training with them...and no physical punishment was needed. I look at it that I wouldn't do to my dog what I wouldn't do to my kids, spouse, parents, or grandparents; I'm not about to use physical force or 'spanking' on them, so I'm not about to use it on my dog.
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    Senior Member BoxMeIn21's Avatar
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    Re: How do you scold your dog?

    Beautiful post above. Great advice!

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    Senior Member Ella'sMom's Avatar
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    Re: How do you scold your dog?

    I raise my voice to Ella - sometimes I don't even have to do that. If she pees in the house she already knows I will be upset and acts very guilty. I haven't had the need to really discipline her yet - except for one time last week. She peed on the couch (nice, huh?) right in front of me and I freaked! I put her in her crate and yelled at her and she just looked at me with the saddest face. After I cleaned the mess I took her out and couldn't stop cuddling her because I felt so bad. I know, probably not the best thing to do but I couldn't help it.

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    Re: How do you scold your dog?

    At that age with my pups I was using "ah ah" with a hand clap when I caught them in the act of pottying in the house, chewing and whatnot
    I try that with Luna, and it works most of the time. But when she's really worked up and biting/chewing everything in sight (usually around 8pm every night), none of the normal things work. She just thinks the clapping is a game, or something. Saying "drop it" doesn't work either, even though she'll drop it nearly always when she's not so hyper. Saying "NO" very sternly doesn't work either when she gets in that mood. The only thing that seems to work a little bit is holding her in the air at arms' length and then saying "no" in a very serious voice. Even that only stops the behavior about 50% of the time after I put her back down. The only thing it's really good for is giving my feet a break from the biting and my ears a break from the barking.

    This dog doesn't seem to have shame. I think we're doing a very good job of being consistent in correcting her bad behavior (we've been following The Bark Stops Here ever since we got her - but she seems to have gotten rougher instead of gentler), but for some reason it doesn't seem to be getting through to her that she's being bad. I say "drop it" or "no" and clap my hands, and her tail just keeps wagging, like it's only a game. This is true whether or not she obeys me. I feel like I'm going to have to do something to get her to realize that we don't approve of her biting. Any suggestions?

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    Re: How do you scold your dog?

    I say No. And it that does not work I use the tssssk sound Ceasar Milan uses along with a snap of my fingers and I point at which ever dog it is meant for. Sounds funny but it really works.

    They actually dont to much wrong. Once in a while chewing on something that is not thiers or every once in a while they stare at me while I am eating or on the computer and keep barking or howling wierdly at me, LoL.

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    Senior Member Jaylie's Avatar
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    Re: How do you scold your dog?

    Sorry, just have to share this quote from my puppy raising manual. (The thing we get when we pick up our puppy in training.)

    "A rolled up newspaper can be very useful in the course of your housetraining. If you ever find feces or urine inside the house, smack yourself on the head with the newspaper a few times while in a stern voice you say, "I will NOT let this happen again, I will supervise him CONSTANTLY." then procceed to clean up the mess."

    Anyway, what I do if I see my puppy start squatting, is I just go and pick it up and take it outside. No words or anything, just firmly pick him up in mid stream and carry him outside. Blitz never had an accident outside of my sight, but Jaylie had...(Yes, I was a newbie with Jaylie and was awful with the housetraining thing...) I never scolded if I didn't see it. Heck, I never scolded if I did see. I just take them outside, and PRAISE 'em up when they go outside. I wasn't consistent with this with Jaylie...With Blitz I was, and you could definately tell the difference. (Blitz took one week...Jaylie took two months.)
    Last edited by Jaylie; 11-27-2007 at 11:47 AM.
    Proud Guide Dog Puppy Raiser of Jaylie (Female Black Lab, dropped for medical reasons), Blitz (Male Yellow Lab, dropped for medical reasons) and Carley (Female Black Lab, currently at guide dog college).

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    Senior Member digits mama's Avatar
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    Re: How do you scold your dog?

    Ya know..slapping myself with the newspaper has actually worked for Ollie and his screaming. He is suffering major separation anxiety. I will have him in his outdoor run while we are working here ( I run my business from my home) and he will scream as if someone is killing him. It got a little annoying to me and my employees when we are trying to put a dumptruck back together. I treid everything, removing myself from his feild of vision, ahh ahh, NO, stop, even the bad way of coddleing him. nothing worked. Then an employe walked over to the pen with a newpaper and smacked his hands with it.. and it ceased for the rest of the day..just like that. Next day, he forgot and we did it again and it stopped..now I have a newpaper curled up in the chainlink and it has all but ceased. nada..done..

  20. #19
    Senior Member MegaMuttMom's Avatar
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    Re: How do you scold your dog?

    Harmonybear, I don't think your goal should be to have your dog feel guilt or shame. You can teach what is right without instilling that. Like it is with kids, I believe it is always better to teach that what you did is what I don't like, it's not that I don't like you. The more you scold, the more that message gets confused. All it has taken with my dog is a firm ah-ah or a no and he backs off whatever he was doing. I then praise him for listening to me. As long as the behavior stops, isn't that enough?

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    Senior Member cascabel's Avatar
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    Re: How do you scold your dog?

    Quote Originally Posted by prolibertate View Post
    There are times I give a short 'uh uh' (not in a harsh voice) and this will distract the puppy long enough to get him interested in chewing something he's allowed to chew. Then I taught my puppy to 'leave it' (see link for how to do this http://www.clickertraining.com/node/57) so now when I see him doing something I don't want, like trying to chew something, I tell him to leave it...this also worked with inhibiting his nibbling on my hands, after I had also done the 'ouch' and walked away to soften his bite first.

    I don't believe any physical 'punishment' is ever needed; dogs don't understand it and all they learn is to fear their guardian. It's aggressive to the dog and I believe aggression begets aggression; at the minimum it begets fear of the person doing it. Also, physical correction such as neck scruffs, alpha rolls, etc., doesn't stop the behavior for good - it only stops it for right then...and this is when the dog figures out that he only has to not do this behavior when his guardian is there, and that when they're not then he can go to town. You want to teach your dog that the behavior is never acceptable, and that takes training, time, effort, patience and consistency.

    I've found that clicker training can work wonders with pretty much any behavior; even aggressive dogs have been desensitized to the things that set them off by using clicker training with them...and no physical punishment was needed. I look at it that I wouldn't do to my dog what I wouldn't do to my kids, spouse, parents, or grandparents; I'm not about to use physical force or 'spanking' on them, so I'm not about to use it on my dog.

    This is exactly what I believe, but didn't articulate so well during my fit of insomnia last night. I did use an 'ah ah' to distract and then redirect, but I don't consider this to be punishment in the general use of the word.

    I can't help but laugh when people use the excuse that 'the mother dog does it'. Do they really think that dogs view as as other dogs? The answer to that is clearly no and is why I think trying to mimic the behavior of a mother dog is ridiculous.

    There are much better ways to train the dog without scolding or using traditional punishment. It just comes down to being creative instead of emotional.

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