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Cesar Millan or Victoria Stilwell

47K views 405 replies 76 participants last post by  Crantastic 
#1 ·
There doesn't seem to be any middle ground when reading about these two. I can find positives with both personalities, but most people seem to be in one camp or the other. I'm curious to hear the opinions of people on this forum. Be sure to include why you feel the way you do.
 
#2 ·
Victoria Stillwell.

If I can't train my dog without flooding and physical intimidation/manipulation, my dog is smarter than me and I shouldn't have one.
 
#3 ·
I probably shouldn't be engaging in this but...

If I have to pick, Victoria. Every time.

They're both a joke on their own right.
Victoria is a bit mediocre, but she does use positive techniques that work. They're easy on the dogs and easier for the owners to keep up with. She doesn't just teach the dogs, she teaches the people.

Milan is an uneducated, untrained, egotistical POS who has NO idea what he's doing. His methods are based on something that is, and always has, been wrong (Dominance does not exist with dogs.) His methods are cruel and they always do more harm than good. Most -if not all- of the dogs he "trains" end up worsening in their problems or developing new ones, which in turn means they either end up in shelters or PTS. I honestly feel like he needs to be removed from TV, the internet, his books should be burned and he needs to take a break to educate himself and grow up. If the average owner implemented his techniques the way he does, they would likely be arrested for animal abuse.


If I ever needed a trainer, I would go with someone who uses positive techniques, who has been educated and trained in their field, rather than either of these two.
 
#6 ·
Actually, all of this, but I shouldn't engage, either. I should, and am, self-moderating enough to unsub from the thread, though, because I don't think I want to know that anyone here that I otherwise consider intelligent and sane loves Milan. It just won't accomplish anything good.
 
#4 · (Edited)
I am a HUGE Cesar Millan fan.I dont follow what he does,because I havent ever needed to (never met a dog like the ones he deals with),but I LOVE his show and to watch him work and see all the dogs he gets to work with.
I am a HUGE huge fan :D

As for Victoria Stilwell..I just think she´s a Cesar Millan wannabe lol.I have seen her show (downloaded them all) and I dont think much of her at all.Anyone who wears 2 inches of make up,designer clothes and high heels when working with animals just can´t be taken seriously if you ask me ;)

Edited to add: I had no idea Cesar Millan was looked down on else where o.0 We even have dog trainers here that claim to use his mothods..that´s how popular he is here.Maybe it´s because he´s latin?
I must admit that as a rule,I will watch ANYTHING with dogs in it ;)
 
#5 · (Edited)
Neither.

Why? Because I prefer real trainers, those that have actually trialed their dogs or have done actual work with their dogs. Not an actress with an inflated head and a terrible wardrobe, not an ego maniac who has let fame cloud his judgement. I don't particularly care for any TV trainer.
 
#207 ·
What they said....
 
#7 ·
Well if those were the only two choices in the whole world, I'd pick Stilwell although I wouldn't exactly say I'm in her "camp." Because he doesn't seem to have even the most basic grasp of dog behavior or learning. She's no super star herself, but at least she's got some understanding of the principles of learning.
 
#9 ·
I kind of think that both are silly, but when I watch Stilwell I don't feel the need to scream at my TV.

I wish that neither had TV shows, because I feel like people use them as a free trainer, and apply their methods to their dogs without understanding if that method is applicable to their situation.
However, I think that people are much more likely to get hurt/mess up their dogs if they do this with Caesar's methods rather than Victoria's.
 
#72 ·
However, I think that people are much more likely to get hurt/mess up their dogs if they do this with Caesar's methods rather than Victoria's.
This is kind of the point for me. Many people watch these shows for tips on how to train their dogs and they may or may not seek help elsewhere. In this case, Victoria offers an approach that most people would be able to do successfully. Caesar, on the other hand, has a warning before each show that you should not attempt these techniques without the guidance of a professional dog trainer.
 
#18 ·
The guy who very recently said that a dog puts its feet on both sides of the bowl when it eats because it's trying to dominate the bowl? The guy who got himself bitten because he challenged a resource guarder he didn't know, ignoring the myriad signals the dog threw at him beforehand? That guy?

I think Cesar has SOME good ideas. I like the whole calm assertive thing. I like that he stresses exercise as one of the most important things a dog needs. But I really don't think he's good at reading dogs, and he seems like a bully in general -- someone who takes pleasure in "winning" a confrontation with a dog.

I'd choose Victoria over Cesar; neither has any actual qualifications, but at least I find her entertaining rather than frustrating. Also, if people copy her, they won't harm their dogs or risk a bite, unlike with Cesar.
 
#12 ·
I do the same as Gina_1978, I watch Caesar because I like to see the dogs but not what he does with them. More of a what not to do. I have never seen any of Stilwell's shows as don't get it on my TV but Caesar comes on the Nat. Geo. channel usually on Sundays when there is nothing else on.

I would much rather watch Utube with some of the better trainers like Kikopup.
 
#13 ·
If I had to pick, Stilwell all the way. I don't watch her show, but I have watched and applied a lot of her training methods through her youtube videos. A lot of her videos are so easy and simple. And I'll never follow anything that isn't positive reinforcement. I sometimes watch Cesar, you know... when I'm in the mood to let out my anger and feel like screaming about him to my husband.
 
#14 ·
I dunno, I just can't bring myself to sit down and watch a man kick, hit, shock, slap, punch, throw and hang dogs.
The same as his physical abuse churns my stomach, I can't handle watching him stare dogs down and growl at them.

I hate to see anything scared and basically beg for mercy. SOOO many dogs on his show cower from him and do everything they have to in order to not get hurt, for reasons they don't understand. Then they're punished for trying to defend themselves.
I have been in similar situations so many times, that I absolutely cannot watch someone do it to another person or animal. If I can across his man in person, I have doubt that I would compulsively step in and do something. Watching his show, to me, means I can't step in and help the animal he's basically torturing, nor can I educate the owners he's lying to, and that stresses me out more than anything.
So, I stopped watching him a long time ago.
 
#93 ·
I dunno, I just can't bring myself to sit down and watch a man kick, hit, shock, slap, punch, throw and hang dogs.
The same as his physical abuse churns my stomach, I can't handle watching him stare dogs down and growl at them.
I've never once seen him do any of those things. Maybe we're watching different shows? I've never seen anything close to "physical abuse" on his show.
 
#15 ·
I would say that Both offer insight into how a dog will react to training.
I watch both, and have used things from both.
I had someone who feared their dog so bad they gave it to me.
American dingo/pit bull mix. Crated most of it's 2 years on earth.
To turn it quickly from it's aggressive tendencies I used Caesar's training techniques.
It beats the heck out of it winding up in the dumpster at the shelter.

I got a new home for it, and taught the new owner how to use a clicker, and positive reinforcement training.
The mild Victoria approach won't always take hold with an already messed up dog.
Yet it is the best way.
 
#122 ·
I agree with how you see them. Caesar's whole thing is he takes extremely poorly-behaved dogs and tries to teach them how to once again respect their owners. I would NEVER use Caesar's techniques on a fresh puppy - at least not when the puppy is totally trainable and responsive to positive reinforcement. But is it really so terribly wrong to give your dog a firm "NO!" when it's misbehaving when it knows better?
 
#17 ·
Ive never watched Victoria all I know is I cant stand her.voice or dress and since we can't go on that lol.

To be honest and Ive mentioned this before, but I used to like Cesar, in his early seasons, he had a cool way of reading the dogs and picking up on things, I didn't really find his techniques mean, physical yes, but not harsh. However I can't stand him now, I watched two of his newer episodes and it was just plain awful, and i have sense quit watching him.
 
#19 ·
I don't think either are the one and only. I think you need to do what it takes. I would get tough to save a dog from being PTS. But I think long term training should be positive. I never saw Victoria break a dog of food aggression. I have used the dog whisperer way, and it worked well for me a few times. Not mean to be dominant It sometimes has to be that way. If they run all over you, that leads to problems for them, and you.
 
#21 ·
I don't think either are the one and only. I think you need to do what it takes. I would get tough to save a dog from being PTS. But I think long term training should be positive. I never saw Victoria break a dog of food aggression. I have used the dog whisperer way, and it worked well for me a few times. Not mean to be dominant It sometimes has to be that way. If they run all over you, that leads to problems for them, and you.
Except, most of the dogs he "trains" do end up being either put in a shelter or PTS. And if they're in a shelter with the problems a lot them have, they end up being PTS anyway.
At no point does this man fix any problem a dog may have. What he does do is use violence and intimidation to mask the problem by creating a dog that's too afraid to act.
Especially with the dogs he works with that are fearful. He slaps them around intimidates them. What does that teach them? To defend themselves before anything happens.
You can only shake a pop for so long before it explodes.
 
#23 ·
neither but if I had to choose it would be CM because of his basic principles and I hate stillwell with a passion lol
 
#24 ·
A couple of other Cesar-related articles I had bookmarked because I found them interesting:

Pack of Lies
One Person's Experience With the Dog Whisperer

Excerpt from the first:

Mr. Millan builds his philosophy from a simplistic conception of the dog’s “natural” pack, controlled by a dominant alpha animal (usually male). In his scheme, that leader is the human, which leads to the conclusion that all behavior problems in dogs derive from the failure of the owner or owners to dominate. (Conveniently, by this logic, if Mr. Millan’s intervention doesn’t produce lasting results, it is the owner’s fault.)

Women are the worst offenders in his world. In one of the outtakes included in the four-DVD set of the first season of “Dog Whisperer,” Mr. Millan explains that a woman is “the only species that is wired different from the rest.” And a “woman always applies affection before discipline,” he says. “Man applies discipline then affection, so we’re more psychological than emotional. All animals follow dominant leaders; they don’t follow lovable leaders.”

Mr. Millan’s sexism is laughable; his ethology is outdated.

The notion of the “alpha pack leader” dominating all other pack members is derived from studies of captive packs of unrelated wolves and thus bears no relationship to the social structure of natural packs, according to L. David Mech, one of the world’s leading wolf experts. In the wild, the alpha wolves are merely the breeding pair, and the pack is generally comprised of their juvenile offspring and pups.

“The typical wolf pack,” Dr. Mech wrote in The Canadian Journal of Zoology in 1999, “is a family, with the adult parents guiding the activities of a group in a division-of-labor system.” In a natural wolf pack, “dominance contests with other wolves are rare, if they exist at all,” he writes.

That’s a far cry from the dominance model that Mr. Millan attributes to the innate need of dogs by way of wolves.
 
#26 ·
In many instances the nothing in life is free theory goes all the way of being a pack leader. Ownership, is dominance.

Some see all of that as too much.
Some would let the dogs run the house.
Some do, and that's how many dogs wind up in the back yard on a rope.
I never hit a dog. I like clicker training at an early stage of life, and I "capture" my dogs attention.
Just the same, I still will go whatever way I need,.. to save one from the pound.
 
#27 ·
I honestly cannot imagine a scenario where one would have to use dominance techniques to save a dog from the pound. I'd actually be willing to bet that people using dominance techniques have landed dogs in there more often than not.
 
#30 ·
True... thats why people with no former experience should begin attempting to convince themselves they know what their doing just because they saw it on tv. They get all syked up thinking they are Cezar Milan and end up doing things wrong and making the situation worse because they didn't really know what they were doing in the first place.
 
#28 · (Edited)
I would have to say Cezar. He seems to have been a dog in a former life ..lol

Not downing Victoria at all, but His methods get to the point and the dogs seem to know it. Where Victorias ways seem to "beat around the bush" and its almost like bribing the dog to see things your way.

Honestly, i say what ever works for you and your dog. To each his own. One technique is not going to work for every dog.
 
#31 ·
I'm actually texting with a friend about CM right now lol. Her Aussie is so incredibly timid, and very skittish, and I'm helping her out by suggesting good videos and training. I told her Kikopup was a really good one and she said she's going to try some of her methods with the clicker. Then we got to talking about CM... I went on a blood boiling rant through text and said that man would RUIN Wilhelm if he ever got his hands on him. (The aussie).
 
#32 ·
Victoria Stilwell. I have her book and took tips on how to train my dog when I didn't even own a dog yet. I like her views, how she's not rough with the dogs, and she doesn't hurt the dog either when training. Cesar is just all wrong in everything he does, in my opinion. I will never follow him, nor will I allow anyone to train my dog that way. I won't even let my own brother walk my dog because he uses Cesar's training and it's too much.
 
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