Cesar Millan or Victoria Stilwell
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Thread: Cesar Millan or Victoria Stilwell

  1. #341
    Senior Member Emily1188's Avatar
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    Re: Cesar Millan or Victoria Stilwell

    Quote Originally Posted by cisco View Post
    Emily this is dumb. For things like dog behavior, you can actually be an expert if you were well exposed to it before HS level onwards. I guess i shouldn't call Bill Gates a computer tech due to him not having a degree.
    Nope, it's a fact. But I'm gleaning that you generally think facts are dumb, anyway. LOL Behaviorist has a specific definition and and Millan does not qualify as one, no matter how people misuse the term.

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  3. #342
    Senior Member dagwall's Avatar
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    Re: Cesar Millan or Victoria Stilwell

    Quote Originally Posted by cisco View Post
    wiki? to wiki if you've appeared on tv that = actress. VS is an expert trainer and she was what she was before she went on tv. Stop that because it is silly to think she was just some random girl picked up for a dog tv show with real life clients. It's post like this that turn me off from threads..
    Wiki was easy to find quickly, but doesn't make it untrue and better sources aren't THAT hard to find. You are only getting a small bit of my attention as I AM at work doing SOME work.

    The reason I pointed out that she's an actress who later became a dog trainer was to illustrate that that probably played a large role in why SHE has a TV show verses all the other qualified positive reinforcement trainers around. I have no clue as to the development of the show but I'd guess her prior acting experience helped her get the role. When the choice is between VS and CM I would pick VS every single time but that doesn't make her my ideal trainer either.

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  4. #343
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    Re: Cesar Millan or Victoria Stilwell

    Quote Originally Posted by petpeeve View Post
    Like the blind leading the blind.

    Have you ever had a RELATIONSHIP with a dog ? ... by that I mean, one that goes beyond 'what I say goes' ? One with equal input from both parties ?
    Oh yes i do. I like clowning with my dogs but i don't like them showing any negative behavior. I make sure they have their rights met by not neglecting any time for their needs...

    You guys really think a person who follows millan = a bad owner. You guys are now inserting the whole "he's only a tv star" nevermind that outside of the tv both CM and VS have books, seminars, and real clients with real success.

    I'm sorry but this is one of the most unintelligent dog forum i have ever been to who will really just throw any sort of argument they can think of. You were all refuted by the fact that all success in their TV shows are real, you can make all the dumb statements to make it appear scripted but the results and clients are real. There are no reliable sources for any dog's getting killed after being given CM's methods all the "links" posted contained nothing but 3rd party information but there are more sources that are visible for CM's success. get over it.
    You all have been shown proof as to how Mother dogs discipline their young with actual academic references by breeders on sites dedicated for breeding, yet you chose to ignore them. You were all told how misrepresenting your whole "dominance/alpha/kicks/chokes..." accusations were. One now goes into "millan said bad stuff about women..".

    You all make judgements on a single picture but ignore the entire picture and you label gossip (those links talking about 3rd party information) as facts.

    "look at these expert behaviorists/trainers... read what they say" yet there is nothing i can see for my own eyes. I can actually see CM do his work with a number of those dangerous cases and also see the success after. I don't see theirs other than articles. I've seen random videos but none of them contained the same drama -statistically at the least.

    If you guys insist on being that close minded and throw any guessed out and gossip based links as an argument then i'm just wasting my time. lmao

    @dagwell, i understand that but that's an assertion based on Vic. I don't think that her being a tv star minus' her value in the field. Nevertheless Millan is miles above her in talent and skill.. because of the fact that her show is all averages cases and she failed with Benjy - a common dog whisperer case.
    Last edited by cisco; 04-24-2013 at 10:18 AM.

  5. #344
    Senior Member Laurelin's Avatar
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    Re: Cesar Millan or Victoria Stilwell

    Quote Originally Posted by cisco View Post
    "look at these expert behaviorists/trainers... read what they say" yet there is nothing i can see for my own eyes. I can actually see CM do his work with a number of those dangerous cases and also see the success after. I don't see theirs other than articles. I've seen random videos but none of them contained the same drama -statistically at the least.
    Maybe because they're not tv shows?

    Real dog training usually ain't that exciting. Not many people are going to sit down and watch someone do the look at that game for an hour long show or watch them play crate games for several weeks. Good dog training shouldn't be dramatic at all. All that crap is the for tv part of both VS and CM's shows. You want real dog training, find a trainer and watch them work -IN PERSON- with those dogs. It's really that simple.

    I wish Sandy was still around. She would have had a hayday with this thread. She was such a great trainer and also had PROOF via dogs with things like... oh I dunno, OTCHs. Among many other things.
    Last edited by Laurelin; 04-24-2013 at 10:28 AM.
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  6. #345
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    Re: Cesar Millan or Victoria Stilwell

    Quote Originally Posted by Curbside Prophet View Post
    I HATE this thread for the singular reason that I get the Thong Song stuck in my head. I HATE that!

    AND I AM MALE!!!
    Thong song? Lol I don't get it.

    @cisco here are some examples of CM's sexism:
    http://www.salon.com/2006/09/01/dog_whisperer_2/
    http://beyondcesarmillan.weebly.com/new-york-times.html

    & since you like videos more then reading here are some video links
    http://video.search.yahoo.com/search...+against+women

  7. #346
    Super Moderator Kuma'sMom's Avatar
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    Re: Cesar Millan or Victoria Stilwell

    Quote Originally Posted by cisco View Post
    Yes you all have been silly women who can't get the difference between discipline and abuse and have exaggerated the whole "dominance" techniques as to some form of bullying. What makes you all silly is that you are still insisting to take notice of one part of the picture you really have no care for the entire.

    Now you guys are giving "she/he's an actress" for some reason having a tv show is a minus now to credentials. None of you realize how dumb that argument is? Victoria and Cesar became famous and got tv shows for a reason they were not just random pics, why pic them over other trainers you claim are better?


    Emily this is dumb. For things like dog behavior, you can actually be an expert if you were well exposed to it before HS level onwards. I guess i shouldn't call Bill Gates a computer tech due to him not having a degree.


    Maybe because those owners sent those dogs to trainers already that failed and suggested euthanasia as an option? We saw that in those episodes.



    Because the way dogs correct bad behavior is violent that is why he referee's. Again, dog corrections involve growling, biting.. these things eventually become fights. You just threw away credibility with what i quoted here.. you are suggesting that he allows his dogs to correct the aggressive behavior of a dog?

    Cesar uses his dogs to see/understand the type of dog he is dealing with. Just like in that one episode where he shows his client aggressive dog through the other side of the gate just to see what reaction his pack gets. Or that episode where Junior was still a pup and chose to keep his distance from the client dog.. stuff like that. But using his dogs to correct bad behavior is dumb and will lead to a dog getting hurt. However, you just brought out one of the things that i admired from Cesar, was how he used his pitbulls to help allot of dogs out. It was great that the decade finally had a positive pitbull rep who were not only docile but helpers.


    Your "true alpha" thing was just.. nevermind. Now Millian is being given accusations of being a sexist. Well, I never heard him saying anything bad about women to be upset about nevertheless we are on the topic of Dog treating anyway. it's irrelevant. If you don't want to use him soley based on your feelings because of what his "views" of women are, that's your business.

    @emily, there is nothing wrong with touches for correction. i don't care as to where you have been trying to go with this whole mother dog mimicry thing. It's not a wrong or unintelligent method anyway. You are being silly.

    Watch yourself. This forum has strict rules prohibiting insulting other members, and you are dancing very close to that line here. You won't receive a second warning.

  8. #347
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    Re: Cesar Millan or Victoria Stilwell

    Quote Originally Posted by Emily1188 View Post
    Nope, it's a fact. But I'm gleaning that you generally think facts are dumb, anyway. LOL Behaviorist has a specific definition and and Millan does not qualify as one, no matter how people misuse the term.
    Nope it's not fact. You are just slapping the word for it. Being able to have that ability with dogs can be taught through experience, it's called a talent. Regardless, Millan was awarded a masters degree by bergin university, so you lose both ways.

  9. #348
    Super Moderator Kuma'sMom's Avatar
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    Re: Cesar Millan or Victoria Stilwell

    Oops, posted too soon, OP crossed the line even as I was posting my warning, lol.

  10. #349
    Super Moderator Curbside Prophet's Avatar
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    Re: Cesar Millan or Victoria Stilwell

    Quote Originally Posted by dogdragoness View Post
    Thong song? Lol I don't get it.
    You're lucky you don't get it, so don't youtube Sisqo Thong Song, you'll regret it for the rest of your life.

    YOU'VE BEEN WARNED!

  11. #350
    Senior Member Laurelin's Avatar
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    Re: Cesar Millan or Victoria Stilwell

    What a weird thread.

    Who would have known that dog training should be measured by the amount of drama?
    Mia CGC - (5 year old papillon)
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  12. #351
    Senior Member dagwall's Avatar
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    Re: Cesar Millan or Victoria Stilwell

    Quote Originally Posted by Kuma'sMom View Post
    Oops, posted too soon, OP crossed the line even as I was posting my warning, lol.
    Ahh... this thread has provided a nice time sink the last two days while I've been bored at work with very little workflow coming through. Cisco's stubborn ignorance was at least entertaining while it lasted. haha.

    Jubel CGC NW1 RATN
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  13. #352
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    Re: Cesar Millan or Victoria Stilwell

    Darn it, life is boring again . All that pesky work stuff that now we have to actually do and all.

  14. #353
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    Re: Cesar Millan or Victoria Stilwell

    What for calling someone "silly?" I don't find that as insulting as what he said about since we are female we can't be good trainers lol ... Just saying.

  15. #354
    Senior Member packetsmom's Avatar
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    Re: Cesar Millan or Victoria Stilwell

    He was far more insulting to members earlier, but then he was still entertaining at that point.

    Dudebro. <----Captures the argument in its entirety.

  16. #355
    Super Moderator Kuma'sMom's Avatar
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    Re: Cesar Millan or Victoria Stilwell

    Quote Originally Posted by dogdragoness View Post
    What for calling someone "silly?" I don't find that as insulting as what he said about since we are female we can't be good trainers lol ... Just saying.
    No, for calling the members of this forum the most unintelligent He's seen. Might want to read all his posts before arguing.

  17. #356
    Senior Member prntmkr's Avatar
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    Re: Cesar Millan or Victoria Stilwell

    I wasn't going to bother
    as I find Cesar Millan postings to be useless at best but,
    as this one seems to have degraded quite quickly, here goes.

    I've seen Victoria Stilwell's show,
    met the woman,
    have little personal use for either,
    but wish her nothing but good things!

    As for C.M. ... yes, I "like" him.
    I like his rags to riches story ... Kudos to him!
    I like his T.V. persona.
    I've enjoyed his show.

    Admittedly, I'm no dog expert,
    but having (very successfully, IMO) worked with dogs
    before C.M. was even born,
    I watched his episodes, as they say,
    "for entertainment purposes only" and,
    for the most part, I have been entertained...

    I've found many of the episodes to be quite entertaining,
    while others to be boring and repetitive.
    But "The Dog Whisperer" is not life;
    it's just "reality" T.V.,
    and I always retain the option of changing channels or,
    simply, turning the television off.

    As far as his "techniques" are concerned,
    I choose to ignore the "touches" (the pokes and kicks)
    and the "alpha rolls", as I have no use for these.
    Also, I ignore his "power of the pack" thing
    as it, too, is of no use to me; I have no large pack.

    I would not say that the man is not sexist,
    but I don't see him as being the misogynistic bastard
    so many would make him out to be.
    He simply seems to be the product of
    his upbringing and life experience and,
    like the rest of us, is trying to cope with life the best he can.
    Admittedly, if I were a woman,
    perhaps I'd have a different opinion of the man?

    On a positive note now,
    what I really like about C.M. is, what I see as,
    universal fundamentals of his core philosophy:
    - be calm
    - be assertive
    - never lose your temper
    - the pack structure concept
    (although, for many people and dogs, this is a none issue)
    - the whole "energy thing",
    although I do find the concept a bit "artsy fartsy",
    the reality, for me, is undeniable.

    These are my opinions ..."chacun à son goût".

    And I won't stomp on anyone else's views
    regardless of how wrong they may be .

  18. #357
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    Re: Cesar Millan or Victoria Stilwell

    If those ideals are his core philosophy. . .he breaks them himself quite often. Especially the temper thing.

  19. #358
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    Re: Cesar Millan or Victoria Stilwell

    Quote Originally Posted by Willowy View Post
    Darn it, life is boring again . All that pesky work stuff that now we have to actually do and all.
    Yeah ... Darnit lol I was finding this entertaining to the point wher di was anxious to see the notifications for this thread in my inbox lol.

    I have read the entire thread ... I have been posting in it since like page 1, I even went back & read all Cisco's posts, & I wouldn't call anything he said "insulting" persay, he said our views were "ignorant" & that "women don't make good trainers because we're too emotional" (I think that's what makes us good is that we are emotional lol).

    I don't know ... I'm just really really thick skinned I guess lol so maybe I'm not the best person to judge what is insulting.

  20. #359
    Senior Member Crantastic's Avatar
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    Re: Cesar Millan or Victoria Stilwell

    Quote Originally Posted by Laurelin View Post
    Maybe because they're not tv shows?

    Real dog training usually ain't that exciting. Not many people are going to sit down and watch someone do the look at that game for an hour long show or watch them play crate games for several weeks. Good dog training shouldn't be dramatic at all. All that crap is the for tv part of both VS and CM's shows. You want real dog training, find a trainer and watch them work -IN PERSON- with those dogs. It's really that simple.

    I wish Sandy was still around. She would have had a hayday with this thread. She was such a great trainer and also had PROOF via dogs with things like... oh I dunno, OTCHs. Among many other things.
    I miss her at times like this, too! And yeah, wow. I actually shook my head when I got to the post about how real behaviorists obviously aren't as good as Cesar because there's no drama when they train. Wow.

    Crystal the Papillon and Casper the Alaskan Klee Kai

  21. #360
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    Re: Cesar Millan or Victoria Stilwell

    ^^^ agreed. I don't like to see drama when I work with my dogs, I work to avoid drama ... Drama is so exhausting :/ lol

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