Westminster rewards cruelty
DogForums.com is the premier dog Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.
+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 11 1 2 3 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 214

Thread: Westminster rewards cruelty

  1. #1
    Senior Member Bones's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Alabama
    Posts
    1,617

    Westminster rewards cruelty


  2. Remove Advertisements
    DogForums.com
    Advertisements
     

  3. #2
    Senior Member RCloud's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    NH. Oh, and AZ. And KY. And NC. Oh, and also NV, and possibly CA and NM!
    Posts
    2,106

    Re: Westminster rewards cruelty

    Not surprised. At all.


    "Ma'ii is always out there, waiting. And Ma'ii is always hungry" - Navajo proverb

  4. #3
    Senior Member Niraya's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Easton, Pennsylvania
    Posts
    2,408

    Re: Westminster rewards cruelty

    I wondered when this was going to come out. Bunch of people on the WKC chatter was talking up a storm about this yesterday. Every other post was about him and the unethical breeding.
    R.I.P Daytona the Great Pyrenees.



  5. #4
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    55

    Re: Westminster rewards cruelty

    The very epitome of pretentious people.

  6. #5
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Alberta Canada
    Posts
    1,278

    Re: Westminster rewards cruelty

    It's not the show's fault, I don't think they can turn away entries based on ethics. If they could a lot more dogs would likely be excluded! I can think of some kennels that produce masses of dogs, yes they show them, but still, not ethical IMO.

    It's the akc and the breeders, the akc for not seeing past the dollar signs and wanting money from puppy mills etc. that breed registered dogs, and the breeders. There's a lot of breeders who will agree to what testing should be done to better the breed, but would scream 'unfair' at the thought of those being manditory and not their option to do.

    In some kennel clubs, like the KC in England, a merle/merle breeding would not be registered. Other kennel clubs go further with temperament testing and such, you can't breed unless your dog passes. AKC just wants one clearance, the payment for the papers.

  7. #6
    Senior Member Laurelin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Oklahoma
    Posts
    15,337

    Re: Westminster rewards cruelty

    How would the judge know that that dog had a double merle sire?

    I don't have to say that I think producing double merles in most breeds is atrocious. I've posted enough anti double merle breeding posts that I'm sure people know where I stand on that. I did know that the collie was the son of that dog and was saddened by it when I saw him. But really there is no way to tell if a dog's sire is a deformed double merle. A double merle bred to a solid will produce perfectly normal pups.

    RTA: Now, I do think there should be something done to prevent the registration of dogs like Avalanche and his progeny in the first place.
    Last edited by Laurelin; 02-14-2012 at 04:12 PM.
    Mia CGC - (5 year old papillon)
    Hank- (10 month old Spotty Dog)
    Summer TG3 TIAD - (10 year old papillon)

  8. #7
    Senior Member Keechak's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Wisconsin USA
    Posts
    8,628

    Re: Westminster rewards cruelty

    How exactly was Westminster rewarding cruelty?

  9. #8
    Senior Member Shaina's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    7,763

    Re: Westminster rewards cruelty

    Quote Originally Posted by Laurelin View Post
    How would the judge know that that dog had a double merle sire?

    I don't have to say that I think producing double merles in most breeds is atrocious. I've posted enough anti double merle breeding posts that I'm sure people know where I stand on that. I did know that the collie was the son of that dog and was saddened by it when I saw him. But really there is no way to tell if a dog's sire is a deformed double merle. A double merle bred to a solid will produce perfectly normal pups.

    RTA: Now, I do think there should be something done to prevent the registration of dogs like Avalanche and his progeny in the first place.
    ^This, including the last line.

    Put the blame where it belongs on this one -- the breeders intentionally breeding double merles, and the people breeding to the double merle and therefore supporting the practice. I don't think the double-merle sire should not be registerable, but really people, especially experienced people, should NOT have to be told they shouldn't breed merle to merle.

    ARCHX U-CD Kim MX MXJ NF CL3-SF RL3/2X/1X-COE CGC -- Golden Ditzhund
    MACH ARCHX U-CD Webster MXB MJB RL3/2X/1X-COE CGC -- Flying Houdini
    Mira CD JH MX MXB MXJ MJB CGC WCX -- Flat-Coated Retriever
    Brie -- Fiesty Feline

  10. #9
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Alberta Canada
    Posts
    1,278

    Re: Westminster rewards cruelty

    Quote Originally Posted by Laurelin View Post

    RTA: Now, I do think there should be something done to prevent the registration of dogs like Avalanche and his progeny in the first place.
    I totally agree, I think kennel clubs today should have rules in place to prevent unethical/unhealthy breeding practices. But time and time again I hear breeders say 'I know it's wrong and I'd never do it myself or agree with anyone doing it, but it shouldn't be a rule that we can't do it, nobody should tell me who I can and can't breed!'....

  11. #10
    Senior Member Xeph's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    New Castle, PA
    Posts
    12,204

    Re: Westminster rewards cruelty

    I completely disagree with the title of the article.

    While people may know individual dogs, nobody knows the parents of every dog (not all breeding dogs are exhibited in conformation) or the circumstances behind the breeding.

    The judge awarded a Collie he/she thought was deserving. End of story.
    S Konzert vom Drachenberg CD, RN, CGC, TC, retired service dog "Strauss"
    Mana's 5 Cents for Advice Marcato TC "Wesson"
    Marcato's Turn the Page "Mikasa"

  12. #11
    Super Moderator cshellenberger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    D.C. Metro
    Posts
    10,540

    Re: Westminster rewards cruelty

    I believe the breeders are clearly unethical, that's something for their BREED CLUB to penalize, not the AKC.

    Quote Originally Posted by Laurelin View Post
    How would the judge know that that dog had a double merle sire?
    And finally THIS. Unless the judge knew the breeder, how would he know who the sire was.

    Is this dog worthy of winning BOB? He's certainly a beautiful dog, I don't know the breed well enough to say whether he's correct conformationally or not, that's something the judge WILL know however and I'll have to take his decision as this dog is more correct than the others being shown in the ring at the time.
    Carla
    "A fool gives full vent to his anger, but a wise man keeps himself under control" Proverbs 29:11

  13. #12
    Super Moderator cshellenberger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    D.C. Metro
    Posts
    10,540

    Re: Westminster rewards cruelty

    Quote Originally Posted by Xeph View Post
    I completely disagree with the title of the article.

    Yeah, sounds like a pro-PETA tag line to me.
    Carla
    "A fool gives full vent to his anger, but a wise man keeps himself under control" Proverbs 29:11

  14. #13
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    South Dakota
    Posts
    17,585

    Re: Westminster rewards cruelty

    It's funny how anyone concerned with what happens to dogs is tagged as "pro-PETA". I don't think that's useful.

    Well, this is bad. Because now that one person won with the offspring of a double merle, a lot more people are going to do it. Nice.

  15. #14
    Super Moderator cshellenberger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    D.C. Metro
    Posts
    10,540

    Re: Westminster rewards cruelty

    Not neccesarily, the fact is there are a HELL ofa lot of people in the know that are coming out and questioning the ethics of the breeding.

    Also, the reason it sounds so Pro AR to me and others is because this is ONE dog, in ONE breed, NOT the whole show and yet other, very ethical breeders and WKC itself is being painted with the same brush.
    Carla
    "A fool gives full vent to his anger, but a wise man keeps himself under control" Proverbs 29:11

  16. #15
    Senior Member Xeph's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    New Castle, PA
    Posts
    12,204

    Re: Westminster rewards cruelty

    now that one person won with the offspring of a double merle, a lot more people are going to do it. Nice.
    Really? How do you know this?

    I don't think that's useful.
    It's not useful for people to call the dogs of others "freaks" or "frog dogs" either, and then still expect those people to listen to what's being said. Still happens anyway.
    S Konzert vom Drachenberg CD, RN, CGC, TC, retired service dog "Strauss"
    Mana's 5 Cents for Advice Marcato TC "Wesson"
    Marcato's Turn the Page "Mikasa"

  17. #16
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    South Dakota
    Posts
    17,585

    Re: Westminster rewards cruelty

    Quote Originally Posted by Xeph View Post
    Really? How do you know this?
    In all competitions, the people who win are those who are willing to do anything to win. If they see someone win by doing something unethical (and getting away with it), there may be some who will not follow suit. . .but many will. It's human nature.

    It's not useful for people to call the dogs of others "freaks" or "frog dogs" either, and then still expect those people to listen to what's being said. Still happens anyway.
    If they expressed their concerns in a less insulting manner, would those people listen then? Probably not. Nobody listens to what they don't want to hear.

  18. #17
    Senior Member ChaosIsAWeim's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    VA
    Posts
    4,956

    Re: Westminster rewards cruelty

    I still fail to see how this is westminster's fault? The judges don't know the dogs, so how did "westminster reward cruelty"?

  19. #18
    Senior Member Niraya's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Easton, Pennsylvania
    Posts
    2,408

    Re: Westminster rewards cruelty

    Quote Originally Posted by ChaosIsAWeim View Post
    I still fail to see how this is westminster's fault? The judges don't know the dogs, so how did "westminster reward cruelty"?
    Quoted for truth.
    R.I.P Daytona the Great Pyrenees.



  20. #19
    Senior Member Xeph's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    New Castle, PA
    Posts
    12,204

    Re: Westminster rewards cruelty

    would those people listen then?
    Maybe not. But they're more likely to.

    Every time somebody insults my breed, I am no longer inclined to listen to them. They may have something of value to say, but I'm not going to listen to them degrade my dogs. I love my dogs, and try to do the best I can for them.

    Many people here know how much I want to change things in my breed, but I cannot do it by myself, and the more people try to FORCE others to see that they are right, the longer it will take.

    There's a big hullabaloo going on in the GSDCA right now due to a recent board decision that was made to allow all dogs with DQ faults take PC (parent club) awards in performance. If people can't agree on that, or that white dogs deserve to be exhibited in conformation too, what makes others think that they can put out glaring exposes, call breeders nasty names, and then expect REAL change?
    S Konzert vom Drachenberg CD, RN, CGC, TC, retired service dog "Strauss"
    Mana's 5 Cents for Advice Marcato TC "Wesson"
    Marcato's Turn the Page "Mikasa"

  21. #20
    Senior Member Shaina's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    7,763

    Re: Westminster rewards cruelty

    Having read a lot of the BorderWars stuff over the years, I would say that the title is not so much AR as Anti-AKC. It might be used by AR, yes, but the owner of the BW blog is most definitely NOT a PETA type. If you read the whole piece I think it's more that he's saying AKC and CCA could have and should have kept the offspring of this dog from being in the ring in the first place, and therefore they failed and are de facto rewarding it. Also, he's being sensationalistic. But the heart of the text and the related blogs blame the breeders involved.

    Which should also not be confused with breeders in general, before anything heads down that path.
    Last edited by Shaina; 02-14-2012 at 05:48 PM.

    ARCHX U-CD Kim MX MXJ NF CL3-SF RL3/2X/1X-COE CGC -- Golden Ditzhund
    MACH ARCHX U-CD Webster MXB MJB RL3/2X/1X-COE CGC -- Flying Houdini
    Mira CD JH MX MXB MXJ MJB CGC WCX -- Flat-Coated Retriever
    Brie -- Fiesty Feline

  22. Remove Advertisements
    DogForums.com
    Advertisements
     

+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 11 1 2 3 ... LastLast

Quick Reply Quick Reply

  • Decrease Size
    Increase Size
  • Remove Text Formatting
  • Insert Link Insert Image Insert Video
  • Wrap [QUOTE] tags around selected text

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
SEO by vBSEO 3.5.2 ©2010, Crawlability, Inc.