Enough With The Potty Threads!
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Thread: Enough With The Potty Threads!

  1. #121
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    Re: Enough With The Potty Threads!

    Hello Folks!

    So I did some research and have not found anything that is particularly convincing in one way or another, so I am hoping that the brainpower of this forum can help me.

    First, the basics:

    1.) Age Of Dog/Puppy - ~3 and a half (rescue, so no way to tell for certain)
    2.) Length Of Ownership - 3 years
    3.) Method Of House Training - Crate Trained
    4.) Breed Of Dog/Puppy - West Highland White Terrier
    5.) Where Dog/Puppy Is Kept - Free reign of the home when we are not around.
    6.) Where Accidents Occur - In her bed.
    7.) How Long Its Gone On - ~ 3 months
    8.) How Long Dog/Puppy Is Alone When It Occurs - She isnt alone, we are sleeping in the same room as her.
    9.) Whom Is The Primary Caregiver - My wife and I
    10.) Any Background History That Might Be Relevant - N/A

    So, I have had Hudson for 3 years and they figure she was about 6 months when we first rescued her from a kill shelter in upstate New York. We started right away with crate training her, and making sure she had ample time outside to do her business. Strongly rewarded her, and made sure to have specific code words for number 1 and number 2. Great, grand, wonderful! She is very good in the home, maybe 1 accident per 5 months or so and it usually has much more to do with her peeing when being excited than anything else (seeing a new person, or the inevitable person riling her up as soon as they walk in the door). Our vet says she has a weak bladder and must have had some issues with submissive peeing earlier in her life - but she has been very good to us.

    So here is the trouble in paradise; Over the last few months she has decided to just urinate in her bed and then get up and leave the smelly bed and go sleep on the couch (can you blame her - it must be smelly). We let her sleep in the room with us on her own bed and she is allowed to come and go as she pleases in the apartment. For no reason that I can figure (having gone out around 9-10PM) she will pee in her bed in the middle of the night, get up and go elsewhere in the house (usually the sofa) and go back to sleep. She has no issues holding it for that time frame from 9-10PM-6:30A which is pretty typically when we bring her out the next morning. She doesn't yelp or whimper, and has not had an accident in the morning. Before this she was having no issues at all and lasted through the night with no trouble. We have tried a few types of beds thinking maybe the soft feel of the bed was reminding her of grass (I don't know, we are looking for any explanation), and none of them have made a difference.

    The kicker is that it only happens if we give her a bed to sleep in. A few times we have thrown one bed away and have not purchased a new one yet, and she will sleep on the sofa, or in my sweatshirt if I leave it on the floor and there will be no issues whatsoever. It is like she is upset I only buy the $15 TjMaxx Beds and she deserves better or something.

    Any thoughts or help would be greatly appreciated! Maybe I should try just getting a pillow and blanket and making a bed? Use an old sweatshirt of mine?

    Regards,

    Joe



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  3. #122
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    Re: Enough With The Potty Threads!

    About a week or so ago i got a month old Dachshund puppy out of the blue (his mum is my neighbour's dog, but she started rejecting him and being really aggressive towards him, and they were unable to keep him because of space/how hostile the mum was being), he's still not allowed to go outside and he lives on the second floor of the house, but he does go downstairs to play with my mum's dogs (a 7ish y/o and a 10something y/o, they are rescue dogs so we don't really know how old they really are) every day for a couple of hours, and we try to introduce him to as many people as possible and other neighbour's dogs so that he gets well socialized.

    my issue is that i've never had a puppy, much less a puppy so young, because we've always had old rescue dogs and they already kinda knew the drill of things so we didn't really train them, but with Otto (the puppy) i have no idea what to do or if what i'm doing is right. Because we got him so suddenly we didn't have time to prepare beforehand, so we don't have a crate or a pen for him, he's living on a DIY pen we made out of two sofas in one corner of the living room and he's got a blanket and some pillows as bed, and a litterbox in one corner for him to go potty, the rest of the floor is covered in newspaper; so far i think he's doing a really good job at doing his business on the litterbox, he goes there 80% of the time i'd say, but i think maybe i'm doing more harm than good by letting/teaching him to go potty on the litterbox, my theory was that he was going to get used to the texture of the litter and then when he can go out it'll be easier for him, but right now i'm not so sure, but i'm also scared of letting him go outside because there are stray dogs and he could catch fleas or something (because he's so young he hasn't got all his vaccines yet).

    so what do i do? do i keep the litter box until he can go outside safely? i also don't know if i should get him a real pen or not, because the place he is in now is temporary obviously, and next month i'm buying him a crate, but i also feel bad about letting him alone in such a tiny place, and i feel like he shouldn't be there all the time i'm working/busy, i thought maybe i could put the crate on the bathroom and also the litterbox while i can't supervise him? so he has space to play? but i've also read that's bad because he'll get used to peeing where he eats.
    and i i can put the crate next to me bed when it's night time so i can take him to go potty more easily, thoughts???

    please help

  4. #123
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    Re: Enough With The Potty Threads!

    Ok, so I will attempt to read as many of these as possible, but I'm at my wits end. Here goes the thing, I never leave her un supervised, when I'm at home, she never leaves my side, and never would even if I wanted her to, if I get up to the kitchen, she goes with me, always at my feet. I go to the bathroom, there she is walking by my side, she gets sad if I go out without her, etc. So, when I'm home, she is(technically was, as I won't let her anymore) always cuddling at my lap, or at my side, on top of the couch, and there is the issue, she might actually be extremely lazy but I don't really know, the issue is(and it has happened 4 times, but I honestly cannot remain angry with her for a long time, she is just so sweet) she pees on the couch, last time is the best example of it, I took her out at 5am to the loo, then again at around 9-10, then at 1pm, and after the last one, she was so peacefully asleep on my side, and then suddenly she moved her head a bit, but then fell asleep again, I didn't though tmuch of it... Until a few seconds later, when I started felling a bit warm wetish... suffice it to say this is the 4th time on the couch and twice on the bed(Yes she is my baby puppy and she DID sleep on the bed until that time)
    So I am desperate, she is smart, I mean, I just tested her, I put some food beside her and ordered to stand still, she didn't attempt to go for the food, and she knows several commands already, like stay, come, sit, wait, it hurts(she stops biting and licks my "wounds" when I say it hurts), etc. So I can't really understand why is it so difficult for her to understand potty(And BTW, if it matters, I attepted to shower newspaper with attracting liquid, I bought her special attracting mats, and the little fake grass attracting mat, and nothing works, whatever I try is not working (so far)

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  6. #124
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    Re: Enough With The Potty Threads!

    Just a heads up, despite being a sticky, this thread doesn't get a ton of traffic, so if you don't find an answer to your specific questions here you may actually be better off starting your own threads, regardless of the title of this one, haha.

    Cleyequien: How old is your dog? I'm assuming she's a puppy, and I think it's important to remember that most dogs don't physically have complete bladder control until 6 months (ish, since every dog develops at a slightly different rate). If she's a very young pup, I'd suggest more frequent potty breaks, even if you have to wake her up to take her out. However, the fact that she seems to be going in her sleep makes me want to suggest a vet. Is she spayed? Spaying a female before their first heat can sometimes lead to spay incontinence, basically without their reproductive organs they don't produce the hormones that allow their urinary system to develop fully, so they can't 'hold it' as well as they should. Otherwise, have your vet check for a UTI, especially if this is a new problem, because sudden changes in potty behavior can be caused by infection. Your vet should be able to arrange a treatment plan in either case. Once you rule out health... is there any reason she's not being trained to potty outside? Some dogs have a hard time grasping that they can ONLY go on potty pads indoors, and start thinking that anything that looks like a pad/newspaper (like blankets, rugs, dog beds, towels, etc) are also okay pee spots.

    Onnie - Wow, so young! I'm sorry your neighbor was so thoughtless in allowing their dog to breed when they didn't have the time/space to handle complications, but good on you for taking care of the pup. It sounds like you don't have any outdoor space that isn't frequented by unknown dogs or wildlife, like a fenced yard, is this correct? If so, I totally understand why you're keeping him indoors - you don't want to mess around with parvo or distemper. It'll get easier once he's fully vaccinated! I've never had a puppy so young, so maybe posting a new thread about him would get you some more advice from other, more experienced members, but at his age he's going to have so little control over his bladder and bowels that I think keeping him in a playpen or dog-safe room (like the bathroom) is your best option. Put down lots of pads or paper, give him a separate area to sleep and eat (like an appropriately sized crate - something only big enough for him to stand, turn around, and lie down in, possibly with a divider since he has so much growing left to do), and reward him for going on the pads/paper, but don't worry too much about potty training at this point. You can start building good habits, but a 4 week old is still basically an infant, so set your expectations really, really low. Seriously though. Post a new thread. Raising a puppy that was separated from his mom/littermates so early has unique challenges above and beyond potty training, and I'm sure people would be willing to help out!

  7. #125
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    Re: Enough With The Potty Threads!

    DaySleepers, I will start a new thread if I can't find something that solves it, jeje, I sure will.

    Now, she is about 3 months old. She is not spayed, I had heard from my family that has dogs that is a bad idea to do that before the first time, AKA, on pregnancy and then bye bye. So that is my idea. She has always been like that, but I doubt it is an infection anymore, I rescued her one month ago, she was dying and had a lot of parasites(her tummy was bloated as a baloon) and the vet gave her an anti-parasite inyection and vitamins, but he didn't saw any kind of infection, the first time it happened it was a few days after she came home, once she was feeling better. Then next time a week or so later, then one week ago and the day before yesterday, but what feels strange to me is, the only one that might have been an accident is in my very inexperienced opinion) this last time, as she was deep asleep and sometimes she has nightmares and cries on her sleep, or "runs" a lot on her sleep. The other three times it kind of felt like she did it intentionally; the first time I was listening to music on my bed, and she still slept on a pillow I set up for her beside my bed, but she kept asking me to put her up, I put her by my side on the bed and she immediately peed. Then next time, I was playing video games, and then I decided to get her out and after I started cooking, after eating, I sat and she asked me to let her up(and she had just peed beside the couch BTW) and I did... Not 5 minutes later she had peed and pooped on it, and you might be able to kinda call it my fault, as I went to the loo and left her alone on the couch, so I'll gut that. But then, as I mentioned, one week ago I went to the market, came back and took her out(I dont like the idea of a box and I live in a studio so the only door is the bathroom, so when I leave I leave her in the bathroom knowing it will be a mess when I'm back) she peed and tried to run back inside(She is going to be a home dog, not a "lets go to the street" kind of dog) and I stopped her and told her I knew she had more in her(She actually can hold for a bit, and I realized because she was most of the time laying by my side, so when I pet her on the belly I can feel her tripes if she needs to really go, so If I feel them I take her out, and she does a ton, and then her tummy doesn't feel like that any more) so she pooped a lot and then went pee again, I took her in and then she asked me to let her up(usually I wait until she asks me to let her up, IDK why, and I try to make her climb on her own) and I took her up... I had just put her on the couch and she peed... Again.

    I will follow your advise, I just took her to the Vet on monday, but I will go for an in depth check up, and well, I gotta be patient I guess.

    Thanks for the advise!

  8. #126
    Senior Member DaySleepers's Avatar
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    Re: Enough With The Potty Threads!

    Thanks for the additional information! It helps.

    Did you mean one heat and then done? Female dogs are still babies themselves - by which I mean both physically and emotionally immature - until about two years old, so they shouldn't be bred before then. In addition, testing to make sure she doesn't have any genetic conditions she could pass onto the pups and possible health complications add a lot of stress, expense, and potential heartbreak to the mix. There's an old myth that females "need" one litter, but it's just that - a myth. Waiting for her to have her first heat is great, but actual breeding, even just once, isn't for the faint of heart!

    At three months, I'd say the first thing I'd try is more regular breaks. When she's awake and active, start with every hour, hour and fifteen minutes. If she's still having accidents, reduce the time immediately. If she's holding it well, you can start increasing it by 15 minutes every couple days. You should be able to narrow down how often she needs to go out, and as she matures, she'll be able to hold it longer and longer. The 'rule of thumb' is they can hold it for an hour for every month of age, but every dog is different, and it's better to take her out more often than she needs than to let her have accidents indoors. If she's a small dog, they sometimes need to go more often, too. When she's sleeping, I'd still give her one or two breaks overnight. Again, more if she keeps having accidents. Set alarms for everything if you have to! It's a pain, but it's not forever and you'll get really solid potty training out of it.

    When you let her out, go out with her, preferably on a leash. When she potties, act like it's the best thing ever, get really happy and excited, praise her, and give her an extra tasty treat. Maybe even play with her for a few seconds. Dogs don't have the same concept of indoors vs. outdoors that we do, and it sounds like she might just not 'get' that outdoors is WAY more fun and rewarding to potty in than indoors. Clean up the spots she's had accidents indoor super well, either with vinegar or a pet-specific cleaner that contains enzymes. Even if you can't smell the accident anymore, she probably can and it's like a neon sign to her that say "potty here!" I assure you that she's not doing it intentionally, at least not in the sense that she's doing it out of spite or 'knows better'. Dogs don't think that way, she just hasn't quite understood what the expectations are for her yet. She likely doesn't know she has to go until last minute, just like a little kid, which more regular breaks should help with, so she doesn't get to that 'full to bursting' point and go wherever she happens to be standing.

    See what the vet says, esp. about the peeing in her sleep, because that's the only thing that doesn't seem 100% normal for a puppy her age, but it could just be that she was so deeply asleep that she couldn't help it.

  9. #127
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    Re: Enough With The Potty Threads!

    After a few months with us, my puppy is almost potty trained. I say "almost" because there's a small glitch my system right now. Sadie now pees and poops outside throughout the day, but pees inside the house at night. She probably can't hold it for the whole night. The best solution would probably be to wake up in the night and take her outside. I did try this when I first brought her home, but my wife doesn't like the idea of me going out at night as she's superstitious about it.

    I'm considering getting her a litter box so that she has somewhere to pee if she needs to, but I'm also not a big fan of this idea. I'd have to find sand from somewhere on a fairly regular basis for one thing.

    Does anyone have any other solutions for me? I don't want her to get too used to peeing in the house, even if it's only at night.


    EDIT: One other problem is that she does not go if the ground is wet after rain. Even if the door is wide open, she will pee inside the the house.
    Last edited by Himannv; 02-02-2017 at 02:20 AM.

  10. #128
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    1.) Age Of Dog/Puppy: almost 2 yrs

    2.) Length Of Ownership: in 3rd week

    3.) Method Of House Training: frequent visits outside, praise and treat

    4.) Breed Of Dog/Puppy: Shorkie

    5.) Where Dog/Puppy Is Kept: free roam when I'm home though he always stays by me, kitchen only while I'm away

    6.) Where Accidents Occur: everywhere

    7.) How Long Its Gone On: since adoption

    8.) How Long Dog/Puppy Is Alone When It Occurs: when I'm with him, generally - hasn't had an accident while I'm at work with walker during the day. He's too interested in looking outside.

    9.) Whom Is The Primary Caregiver: me

    10.) Any Background History That Might Be Relevant: crate training did not work and frequent outside visits will not work because this dog can go 24 hours between pees and poops. He eats and drinks normally. The peepee that comes out is a river. He doesn't have a medical issue. He came from a doggy door foster home. I will not do doggy door. He often goes on walks or is let into the back yard and doesn't mark /pee. I can't associate outside with pee if he doesn't go! Please help.
    Last edited by laurenlizard; 02-21-2017 at 11:46 AM.

  11. #129
    Senior Member Lillith's Avatar
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    Re: Enough With The Potty Threads!

    Quote Originally Posted by laurenlizard View Post
    1.) Age Of Dog/Puppy: almost 2 yrs

    2.) Length Of Ownership: in 3rd week

    3.) Method Of House Training: frequent visits outside, praise and treat

    4.) Breed Of Dog/Puppy: Shorkie

    5.) Where Dog/Puppy Is Kept: free roam when I'm home though he always stays by me, kitchen only while I'm away

    6.) Where Accidents Occur: everywhere

    7.) How Long Its Gone On: since adoption

    8.) How Long Dog/Puppy Is Alone When It Occurs: when I'm with him, generally - hasn't had an accident while I'm at work with walker during the day. He's too interested in looking outside.

    9.) Whom Is The Primary Caregiver: me

    10.) Any Background History That Might Be Relevant: crate training did not work and frequent outside visits will not work because this dog can go 24 hours between pees and poops. He eats and drinks normally. The peepee that comes out is a river. He doesn't have a medical issue. He came from a doggy door foster home. I will not do doggy door. He often goes on walks or is let into the back yard and doesn't mark /pee. I can't associate outside with pee if he doesn't go! Please help.
    It sounds like he has developed a habit of going inside. Was he previously pad trained, do you know?

    If you haven't already, clean up his accidents with an enzymatic cleaner like Nature's Miracle or a similar cleaner that eliminates the scent of the accident. Cleaning it up with a regular cleaner doesn't eliminate the scent.

    For now, I would not give this dog free roam of the house, even when you are home. Keep him in the same room as you at all times so you can catch him if he starts to go. When you cannot 100% supervise, crate him. You're basically going to treat him like a baby puppy in the potty training department. If you catch him, say something like "Oopsie!" and get him outside quick. Praise and reward for going outside!

    Have you tried letting him sniff around in areas you know other dogs have gone potty? That typically makes most dogs want to mark at least a little. You could also try taking his accidents outside to see if that would encourage him to go outside, since you are having such trouble getting him to go out there in the first place! When you take him to the back yard to potty, put him on a leash and just stand there. Nothing fun is going to happen until he goes potty. If he's allowed to roam freely out there he might get distracted. Make potty trips separate from play trips.

  12. #130
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    Thank you for your suggestions.

    The foster had him doggy door trained. He only used pads as a pup and doesn't seem to recognize their purpose anymore. I clean every accident with Nature's Miracle. And when we are home together, he is stuck to my side like glue.

    I have taken outside a potty pad that I used to clean up an accident inside. When we are out there in the yard, he'll sniff a little, but mainly just sit there. I've stayed out there 30/45 minutes without results. The times that he does eliminate outside seem to be random. On walks, he'll sniff droppings other dogs have left, but that doesn't trigger him. Walks do seem to be more successful at getting him to potty, but they are not a surefire method.

    The main issue is that he just holds his pee and poop so long despite normal eating and drinking.

  13. #131
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    Re: Enough With The Potty Threads!

    Quote Originally Posted by laurenlizard View Post
    Thank you for your suggestions.

    The foster had him doggy door trained. He only used pads as a pup and doesn't seem to recognize their purpose anymore. I clean every accident with Nature's Miracle. And when we are home together, he is stuck to my side like glue.

    I have taken outside a potty pad that I used to clean up an accident inside. When we are out there in the yard, he'll sniff a little, but mainly just sit there. I've stayed out there 30/45 minutes without results. The times that he does eliminate outside seem to be random. On walks, he'll sniff droppings other dogs have left, but that doesn't trigger him. Walks do seem to be more successful at getting him to potty, but they are not a surefire method.

    The main issue is that he just holds his pee and poop so long despite normal eating and drinking.
    What exactly is doggy door trained? Did the foster report accidents? So he will go outside if he can go through a doggy door, is that it?

    Does he have accidents in his crate? Where does he go when he has an accident? Just goes right in front of you or sneaks off?

  14. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lillith View Post
    What exactly is doggy door trained? Did the foster report accidents? So he will go outside if he can go through a doggy door, is that it?

    Does he have accidents in his crate? Where does he go when he has an accident? Just goes right in front of you or sneaks off?
    The foster reported no accidents. He could come and go out of the doggy door as he liked to do his business. When I attempted to crate train him, he would not eliminate in there. The issue was that he didn't mind the crate when I was present, but unable to give him my full attention; however, leaving him in the several hours at a time when I was at work stressed him out. I just don't have the time to increase his alone time in there, especially because he holds his bladder forever. When he has an accident, he does it in front of me or goes off on his own.

  15. #133
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    Re: Enough With The Potty Threads!

    Quote Originally Posted by laurenlizard View Post
    The foster reported no accidents. He could come and go out of the doggy door as he liked to do his business. When I attempted to crate train him, he would not eliminate in there. The issue was that he didn't mind the crate when I was present, but unable to give him my full attention; however, leaving him in the several hours at a time when I was at work stressed him out. I just don't have the time to increase his alone time in there, especially because he holds his bladder forever. When he has an accident, he does it in front of me or goes off on his own.
    Ok, like I said earlier, if you catch him do the "Oopsie" thing. If he is sneaking off on his own, you need to supervise him more closely. He shouldn't be able to do that.

    If he doesn't have accidents while you are away at work, whatever, let him hang out in the kitchen. But if you need to take a shower, make a meal, eat, or do anything where you can't have eyes on him 100% of the time, crate him. You can even tether him to you if that makes you feel better, but the absolute best way to potty train a dog is make sure he doesn't have accidents inside, or catch him before he can! Its not like having to crate him when you can't supervise is going to be forever, its only while you train, and it does take a little extra time. I would suggest playing crate games (you can look it up on this forum) to get him more comfortable with the crate. Feed him in there, give him yummy stuffed Kong, chews, etc. Good things happen in the crate!

    Bottom line is, the dog has to go potty eventually. You need to make sure he goes in the right spot, and that takes time, consistency, and a ton of patience.

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    I appreciate your help. Thank you!

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