First time dog owner - Papillon-pug hybrid
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    First time dog owner - Papillon-pug hybrid

    Hello

    I apologize if there are a lot of threads for the above. I tried to search for any papillon-pug hybrid dog posts, but since pug is a three letter word, it's a little tough to find anything for this specific mix.

    Anyway, I'm just wondering if anyone has heard of or has a papillon-pug mix and if there is a name for them. I think papug would be a good name. I would assume they would go with pugillon though. I can't find much in google either.

    I have done a lot of research on both types of dogs, and they both seem to be pretty sensative to temperature. I guess since this dog has papillon in it, and since its snout is longer than a pugs and its eyes aren't as bulged out as a pug, it is less likely to have respitory and cornea problems, as pugs sometimes do. I guess that's a huge plus for mixing these dogs.

    Either way, I would like to know a lot more information about these dogs. Both breeds are intelligent, they like going for daily walks, and are good watch dogs. They are both very cute, and together mix up to make one of the cutest dogs I have ever seen. He is quite quiet so far, and both breeds seem to be fairly quiet and aren't all that yappy.

    So, now that I have kind of stated some research I have done, I have a few breed specific and general questions.

    First of all, does anyone own one of these dogs? Do you find that they are easy to train? Are they good with other animals and children?

    Another general question I have is, can dogs actually be 'litter' trained??? We are cat owners (I have two right now) and have been for many years, and we have been told that these dogs can be trained to go to the bathroom on a mat that you can buy at a pet store. We purchased a bunch of these mats, and so far, he has peed on it once, but pooped on a pair of my boxers that I left on the ground. Right now would be a good time to toilet train him for indoors, cause we are in an apartment that doesn't have much carpet. We are moving to a place in a month that has a lot of carpet, though.

    Also, he's got longer hair, like a papillon. Not as long, but more similar to a papillon than a pug. Is this actual hair, or is it fur? How are they with allergies?? I can't find much information regarding these on the internet, especially cause I can't find anything about a pug-papillon mix.

    Thanks again for any information you can give me. It is greatly appreciated.

    Also, I will get some pictures to post shortly. He's soooo cute!!! He's kind of an orange colour, with a black snout, droopy ears, little boots on his paws, and he has a little white soul patch on his chin. He also has a somewhat white line going down the middle of his back.
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    Senior Member borzoimom's Avatar
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    Re: First time dog owner - Papillon-pug hybrid

    A hybrid is a mix between species- ie wolf to dog. A papillion to pug is a mix breed. ( ie dog to dog).
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    Re: First time dog owner - Papillon-pug hybrid

    Quote Originally Posted by borzoimom View Post
    A hybrid is a mix between species- ie wolf to dog. A papillion to pug is a mix breed. ( ie dog to dog).
    Really? I guess a whole website is incorrect, haha. Thanks for the insight.

    P.S. the website is http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/hybriddogs.htm
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    Senior Member borzoimom's Avatar
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    Re: First time dog owner - Papillon-pug hybrid

    "In biology:
    Hybrid (biology), the offspring resulting from cross-breeding of different plants or animals. "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hybrid
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    Senior Member Laurelin's Avatar
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    Re: First time dog owner - Papillon-pug hybrid

    that's gotta be a real bizarre looking mix!

    When you have a mixed breed you never know what you'll get. It could have some traits from one parent and some from another.... any combination is possible. The pups will all probably look very different and behave very different. I had a GSD/Golden who was half and half and he was a great dog. He had the long hair of a golden, floppy ears of a golden, coloration of a German shepherd, the harder temperament and protectiveness of a GSD, and the hip dysplasia of BOTH breeds.

    What I'm trying to say with mixed breeds its all really a guessing game. Your best bet is to research both breeds and expect ANYTHING from either of those.

    Also, just to keep in mind a mix of breeds is not really technically a hybrid. Hybrids are crossing two species (think mule or tigon) not crossing two breeds of dogs.

    I guess since this dog has papillon in it, and since its snout is longer than a pugs and its eyes aren't as bulged out as a pug, it is less likely to have respitory and cornea problems, as pugs sometimes do. I guess that's a huge plus for mixing these dogs.
    Or if you look at it the other way, it's a huge downside to mixing these dogs. Papillons don't have these respiratory problems and problems from bulging eyes. By crossing them you are actually increasing the likelihood of this from the papillon's perspective.

    Things to really watch out for are patellar problems- very very common in toy dogs. It's where the knee cap pops out of place. Sometimes it requires surgery. Another eye problem in addition to the pug ones you've mentioned is Progressive Retinal Atrophy (PRA).

    Another thing I'm a little concerned about is the fact that pugs are brachycephalic and papillons are one of the higher energy breeds. I think that could potentially cause some breathing problems. Paps are athletic and really like to go go go so a shorter snout might be an issue.

    My last pap came litter trained, but honestly going outside is much easier. It can be done, but I'd think on it a lot before deciding to go that route. Toy dogs tend to be harder to potty train as is than larger breeds.

    By the way, you MUSt post pictures. I am really interested to see your little guy. He's part papillon, he's gotta be all cute.

    I'm sure Kuma's mom will be on to talk a little about pugs as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by ghoti View Post
    Really? I guess a whole website is incorrect, haha. Thanks for the insight.

    P.S. the website is http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/hybriddogs.htm

    Seriously, beware of dogbreedinfo. It's full of a lot of misinformation.
    Last edited by Laurelin; 04-29-2008 at 09:42 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
    Mia CGC - (5 year old papillon)
    Summer TG2 TBAD - (10 year old papillon)
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    Senior Member borzoimom's Avatar
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    Re: First time dog owner - Papillon-pug hybrid

    I would think breeding wise this can be a huge risk on the mother. A pug has such a big square head, and a papillion does not nor does it have wider hips. Highly dangerious IMO>.
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    Re: First time dog owner - Papillon-pug hybrid

    The name for it is mutt I would think that is a very odd mix. Papillon are so beautiful.

    Yes dogs can be litter trained. They can also be trained to go on boxes containing sod, so that they also know to go outside on the grass.

    Hair is one coat, fur is two (undercoat). I don't know about pugs but I believe papillons have hair not fur.

    Edit: damn you all type fast!
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    Senior Member Laurelin's Avatar
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    Re: First time dog owner - Papillon-pug hybrid

    Hybrid is a marketing ploy and a catch phrase really. People go out of their way to buy special hybrid dogs when in actuality they're just mixed breeds which used to go for nothing. I'm not dissing the mixes but its quite the phenomenon.

    Also another thing to keep in mind about dogbreedinfo is that anyone can send pictures of their dogs. They're not good breed examples.

    Plus there are pictures on that site that are just wrong. There is no way for example this dog is a papillon/japanese chin.

    http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/japillon.htm

    It's impossible. Neither breed has a curly coat like that that needs to be clipped. That has to be some sort of a poodle maybe bichon mix.

    So yeah, as I've said I'd not put much stock in what that site says about anything actually.

    Oh and I forgot, as far as papillon coat, it's fur, not hair. It is not remotely hypoallergenic and both papillons and pugs shed quite a bit.
    Last edited by Laurelin; 04-29-2008 at 02:47 PM.
    Mia CGC - (5 year old papillon)
    Summer TG2 TBAD - (10 year old papillon)
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    Re: First time dog owner - Papillon-pug hybrid

    Hello,

    Yes there is name for this mix “Mutt", I don’t mean that in a bad way but it is what it is.

    About training any dog can be trained if you know what you are doing, I will suggest that if you don’t have experience, look for a good non violet trainer, this will be well worth on the future.

    Potty training + crate training go together... look for the posts there are quite a few on this subject. But basically you will crate your dog at night and fist thing in morning you will take him to where ever you want him to potty, stay there until he does and then give him the toy or treat etc. He will learn that if he potties there he gets something.

    Also lots of vigilance during the day. And if it is a young puppy then you have to take him to the potty place every two-three hours.

    Read a lot, there are lots of good training books on the market, do some research and read read...
    I will recommend "The Dog whisperer" by Paul Owens... to start. There are lots of books also dedicate specifically to puppy training.

    Any way I'm sure he is very cute, load some pics so we can meet him and best of luck.
    Last edited by filox; 04-29-2008 at 09:54 AM.
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    Senior Member Laurelin's Avatar
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    Re: First time dog owner - Papillon-pug hybrid

    Quote Originally Posted by jesirose View Post
    Hair is one coat, fur is two (undercoat). I don't know about pugs but I believe papillons have hair not fur.
    It's a single layered coat. Fur, not hair. It doesn't keep growing like say a poodle's. It also doesn't need clipping. They have no undercoat, but they still shed though not as much as a double coated dog (shelties). Should be a silky coat that is single layered.

    Upkeep is easy. Brush a couple times a week, comb the ears daily. No need for a rake or anything as theres no undercoat.

    One thing you may have to either trim or take to the groomers to trim is feet. They get lots of hair on their feet and between their paw pads.
    Mia CGC - (5 year old papillon)
    Summer TG2 TBAD - (10 year old papillon)
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    Re: First time dog owner - Papillon-pug hybrid

    Wikipedia says that "Dog hybrids are crosses between different breeds and are often bred selectively". It's only a word, and wikipedia is known to be wrong. Either way, everyone knows that I am talking about, and that's all that matters.

    Also, the snout of this dog is quite a bit bigger than a pug. I would be inclined to assume that the beathing problems would be limited, as his snout is much closer to that of a papillon than a pug.

    I also like the sod idea. I am for sure going to take a look into that. Also, I am going to take him outside a lot, so he will mostly be going outside, but I would perfer if he didn't go on carpet inside on the off chance that he might have to go inside.

    Now, at the moment we have to leave him alone at home for the day while we work. We currently work the exact same shift times, but I go home for lunch. Is he going to be ok being at home for that long alone? We have him in another room away from the two cats.

    Also, what about sleeping with us at night? Is it better to separate us at night or is it ok for him to sleep with us right now? A downfall is, he can't jump off the bed right now. It's far too high. He also fell off the bed last night, which was kind of scary.

    I am going to do some research into the knee problems. He might have puggish leggs. From what I understand, they don't have as many problems with their knees as Papillon's do. Hopefully that is the case. I have bad knees too though, so maybe he will have something in common with his Dad. Hopefully not though.

    I'll take a picture of him at lunch today and post it.

    Thank you all for all of the posts and insight. You are all very nice and helpful. I appreciate it.


    Adam
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    Senior Member jesirose's Avatar
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    Re: First time dog owner - Papillon-pug hybrid

    Thanks for the correction, I don't know where I read that. So the difference between fur and hair is what...hair keeps growing? So if the fur doesn't grow why would it shed? Wouldn't they eventually be bald if it doesn't grow?
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    Re: First time dog owner - Papillon-pug hybrid

    I would not have him sleeping w/ you until he is housebroken.

    As far as in general, I've never owned small dogs, so I don't know the changes of suffocation/rolling on them/falling off the bed etc. Always had bigger dogs while I was a child; now it's my hubby and the dogs are on the floor.
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    Re: First time dog owner - Papillon-pug hybrid

    Yeah he should be sleeping in his crate at night.
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    Sadie: American Eskimo Dog, 2-2-08
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    Re: First time dog owner - Papillon-pug hybrid

    Quote Originally Posted by ghoti View Post
    I am going to do some research into the knee problems. He might have puggish leggs. From what I understand, they don't have as many problems with their knees as Papillon's do. Hopefully that is the case. I have bad knees too though, so maybe he will have something in common with his Dad. Hopefully not though.
    I wouldn't worry too terribly much. It's the most common issue in papillons but it only happens in about three percent of all dogs. Of all the paps I know, I know one with patellar issues that had to have surgery. It was rough on him- poor thing. But even though it's fairly common, it's not as common as many other issues in other breeds. Just something to keep in mind and remember in case you notice a problem. I'm not sure about the frequency of knee problems in pugs at all.

    One thing about beds just to be careful is that some beds are very high. If you can, try to get some stairs if you want the dog going on and off the bed. It'll lessen the impact and be better on joints/thin legs.

    You can teach them to use stairs very easily.

    I also like the sod idea. I am for sure going to take a look into that. Also, I am going to take him outside a lot, so he will mostly be going outside, but I would perfer if he didn't go on carpet inside on the off chance that he might have to go inside.
    My new girl is paper trained/pee pad trained. It really is kind of helpful because if I were to have to leave for a long time and no one could let her out, then she'd not be going all over the place. However, I got her at 3 years and didn't train that so I'm no help there.

    Now, at the moment we have to leave him alone at home for the day while we work. We currently work the exact same shift times, but I go home for lunch. Is he going to be ok being at home for that long alone? We have him in another room away from the two cats.
    How long are you gone? While they're young it's nice to be able to let them out often- small bladders and all. I'd think if you can make it home for lunch, it'd be okay. One thing to remember is both breeds are companion breeds and papillons especially seem to really thrive off of one on one time. They want to be a part of everything so the more you can involve them in what you do, the better. They're a super smart breed as well but very sensitive.

    Oh and by the way, what's his name?

    Quote Originally Posted by jesirose View Post
    Thanks for the correction, I don't know where I read that. So the difference between fur and hair is what...hair keeps growing? So if the fur doesn't grow why would it shed? Wouldn't they eventually be bald if it doesn't grow?
    What I think of is dogs with hair are the kinds that the hair keeps on growing. I'm sure they reach a certain point, tough. Think of breeds requiring a lot of clipping. Poodles, PWDs, Tibetan Terriers, Shih Tzus, etc.

    Whereas a pap's hair won't ever really need clipping. An occasional trim, but not clipping the entire body. It grows, it just reaches a certain length then stops. It doesn't grow down to the floor or anything like that.

    Well, think of your Eskie. I'm pretty sure it sheds, but it has fur as well. It's a breed kept very naturally. The difference is spitz have undercoats and papillons don't.

    Dogs with 'hair' don't shed nearly as much as those with fur.
    Last edited by Laurelin; 04-29-2008 at 11:32 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
    Mia CGC - (5 year old papillon)
    Summer TG2 TBAD - (10 year old papillon)
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    Re: First time dog owner - Papillon-pug hybrid

    That was a very insightful post, Laurelin. Thank you.

    He actually doesn't have a name yet. On my way home I remembered that I forgot to mention that.

    I did a lot of reading between posts, so I have an idea and a plan of attack on all of this. It looks like it is best to keep him in a crate during the night. When I let him out in the morning, I will give him a treat and take him for a walk. That just means a really early morning for me.. Oh well, he's worth it.

    I am going to post some pictures in a minute though. I'll update this thread to point to the proper threat for the pictures.

    When he's home alone, should I keep him in the crate? That kind of leaves him in there for quite a long time every day. That means he is in there at night, then while we are working until 3pm. Here is our schedule. Let me kno wwhat you think.

    My schedule is:

    Wake up 6:20am
    Leave - 6:50am
    Get home for lunch at about - 11:50am
    Leave from lunch at - 12:15pm
    Home at 3:05pm
    Night time is fully free.

    Emma's schedule is:

    Wake up - 6:00am
    Leave - 6:45am
    Home - 3:10pm
    Night time is fully free

    EDIT: I forgot to mention that we go to bed between 11pm and 12am

    So, given this, what do you think the best course of action is for making sure he doesn't get into anything while we are not home? He's just too cute and cuddly and I want him to sleep with us all night. I just know it's too dangerous and I've read that it isn't the best thing to do when they are a puppy and might cause some training problems in the future.

    Thank you very much for all of the advice.

    Adam


    EDIT number 2:

    The link to the thread with the pictures

    http://www.dogforums.com/8-dog-pictu...tml#post280282 (Pug-Papillon)
    Last edited by ghoti; 04-29-2008 at 12:03 PM.
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    Senior Member Laurelin's Avatar
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    Re: First time dog owner - Papillon-pug hybrid

    It sounds doable. People often work while having dogs so even if your situation isn't the ideal 'stay at home all day with puppy' one you can make it work.

    One thing I like to do is on days when I have school then work I come home to let dogs out, but I try to wake up a bit earlier and go for a short walk or try a short training session. That way you can wear them out a bit before leaving.

    Confinement... well, I prefer not to crate that long, however Summer has some separation issues. If she's not kenneled she tends to go crazy so a kennel is the best bet for her. With the others we've used playpens before or baby gates to block off one room. If you can really puppy proof a room and block it off, that'd give your dog some more room than a crate would offer. Definitely make sure a puppy is confined while you're gone. Puppies chew a lot and can get into so much trouble and danger if left on their own.

    I tried it with Summer, though, and she jumped over the baby gate an wreaked havoc on the house....

    The others are great if left out of the crate and blocked to certain areas of the house.

    If used correctly a crate will be a good safe haven and a great place for him to sleep at night. Summer heads right to her crate when she's ready to go to sleep. We actually keep the other four dogs out at night as they're fairly trustworthy but it took years to build up to that.

    ETA: He's soooo cute!
    Mia CGC - (5 year old papillon)
    Summer TG2 TBAD - (10 year old papillon)
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    Re: First time dog owner - Papillon-pug hybrid

    Thanks Laurelin

    I am obviously going to go get a crate and I am going to puppy proof one of the rooms. I just have to work on the whole peeing and pooing on the ground thing, hehe.
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    Re: First time dog owner - Papillon-pug hybrid

    Quote Originally Posted by ghoti View Post
    Really? I guess a whole website is incorrect, haha. Thanks for the insight.

    P.S. the website is http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/hybriddogs.htm
    Yes, the website is incorrect. The whole 'hybrid dog' thing is just a fad being used by breeders to charge people large amounts of money for mutts, by giving them a fancy name. Most of the dogs you find in shelters (unsurprisingly) look just like these 'hybrids'.
    Last edited by Pai; 04-29-2008 at 01:14 PM.
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    Re: First time dog owner - Papillon-pug hybrid

    Quote Originally Posted by Laurelin View Post
    What I think of is dogs with hair are the kinds that the hair keeps on growing. I'm sure they reach a certain point, tough. Think of breeds requiring a lot of clipping. Poodles, PWDs, Tibetan Terriers, Shih Tzus, etc.

    Whereas a pap's hair won't ever really need clipping. An occasional trim, but not clipping the entire body. It grows, it just reaches a certain length then stops. It doesn't grow down to the floor or anything like that.

    Well, think of your Eskie. I'm pretty sure it sheds, but it has fur as well. It's a breed kept very naturally. The difference is spitz have undercoats and papillons don't.

    Dogs with 'hair' don't shed nearly as much as those with fur.
    You bet she sheds I don't actually know anything about any breeds but eskies and some research on two others. So yeah she sheds and has the undercoat.

    I'm going to go google to try to figure out what the rule is lol. Besides the triming I mean there has to be something that defines which is which.
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