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APRI vs. AKC registration?

227K views 89 replies 31 participants last post by  Pai 
#1 ·
I just purchased an APRI shiba puppy. She's registered with America's Pet Registry, Inc. Both of her parents come from a champion bloodlines. Can I get her registered with AKC. What's a difference between the 2? Is AKC more reputable?
 
#32 ·
Well I am sure you have hear of THe Kentucky Derby and the other triple crown races. Well those are only for TB horses that are 3yo. and registed with the Jocky Club.

Does that make the AQHA less of a registry? They can not run at any of the Triple crown races so by what you are saying is that one is better then the other b/c one has some big show/race on TV and everyone knows about it and the other does not.
first off, we're talking about 2 different breeds of horses......you want to run your Quarter horse against a Thoroughbred....go right ahead.....this would be like putting your Labrador into a herding trial w/ all the BC's.....i don't know for sure, as i don't do horse showing, but isn't there shows for all breeds of horses to compete in (Dressage, Western/English Showmanship, Jump, cutting comp.,etc)....i don't think these are open to ONLY specific breeds of horses....

To the same there are registry who only register based on Color, some associations/registries are bases solly on a given performance event. Some of these events are offered in several differnt registries yet one is considered more lagit then others. Does this make the other less of a registry b/c the particapants do not like it or think much of it?
i can't think of any registry that is based on colour......and the performance events are not based on any breed of dog, it's usually put up by a breed/dog club for that event (agility, flyball, obedience, rally-o, etc)

APHA was started b/c AQHA would not register AHQA horses with too much white. Does this make APHA a fake registry and no good? Does this make APHA registerd horses junk?
and APHA was started b/c the Paint is a different breed entirely (colour breed) from the QH.....yes the QH can be a Paint and be dual reg. (APHA and AQHA) same as the Arab can't be reg as a QH but can be dual reg as APHA and Arab (if it is a Paint), nor the Morgan, etc. but, and all you horse people out there correct me if i'm wrong, but most of these can be dual reg. in both colour and breed registries.....am i right?


but everyone is right here....alot of these "registries" for dogs have been formed so that the puppymillers can say "See, i have "quality" puppies and charge astronomical amounts of $ to un/misinformed people who then alot of times spend another astronomical amount of $ trying to keep the "ill-bred" pup alive and/or healthy.....i know, a friend of mine is going thru this w/ her Collie.....
 
#33 ·
They are differnt breed however they still have many things in common. There is alot of TB in the QH breed. You can still register a 1/2 TB 1/2 QH with AQHA.

APHA in NOT a different breed. It tecknially in not a breed it is a color registry. Only colored horses can be shown in APHA shows. Breeding stock (solid) horses can not be shown in APHA events.

Then there is the Pinto Association also strickly a color registry. There are also 2 differnt Buckskin Associtions who are stricktly a color stock horse registry. Horse must have dun factor to be registerd. I can go on but you get the drift.

Performance events such as NRHA requier a horse to have a compitition lisence to compet. For many many years NCHA would only allow AQHA registerd horse to compet. This is why Miss White Trash was not allowed to be shown in Cutting and was they shown as a reiner. Rest is history. Now AQHA has changed the "White Rule" and these horses are not allowed back in.

Each of these registries where started for a reason. AQHA b/c they wanted a way to track blodlines in horses who showd certain tendancies. Most QH can be traced back to Arabs, Morgans, some draft breeds, even TB. Dose that mean that AQHA is not legit as it has such meager start.

Same with NRHA it is now celibrating its 40th year. By 2012 they hope reining will be an Olymic event.

What I am trying to say is that no mater how a registry starts. If it is handled correctly, sets a standard, puts on sanctioned shows, keeps track of winners and points and one thing even AKC is lacking is tracking blodlines. To me this is what a registry does. Keeps track of blodlines what they produce what each sires get does and what the crosses are. This is not being done. So to me AKC is just a clearing house and nothing more. Great place to show and register a dog b/c of the shows, guidlines and such but has little more to offer.

I would like to see them offer an altered dog class in coformation. Let people show who have no interest in breeding. I am getting a puppy this spring and will keep the dog intack b/c I want to show. I personally do not like intack dogs for many reason and yes at some point I may breed the dog but only if it meets my criterea for breeding. However I would rather just show the dog. I really think AKC has really missed the boat on this one.

Heidi
 
#34 ·
Apri

Hi I am new to the forum so I am hoping to learn something :)
So...I just learned that our new puppy Cookie our Miniature Schnauzer has APRI papers and not AKC- I was mislead and feel awful about that. Our puppy is just adorable though and the vet says she is in perfect health so I have to wonder about all the postings on this forum. Some said have a dog spayed because she is not AKC? I am confused about that statement. She can't/shouldn't ever have a litter because she doesn't belong to the better of the two organizations? If we don't plan to have a show dog (and are okay with that)and assume her puppies won't be show dogs (and are okay with that too) then why would we have her spayed? Am I missing something?
 
#35 ·
Hi I am new to the forum so I am hoping to learn something :)
So...I just learned that our new puppy Cookie our Miniature Schnauzer has APRI papers and not AKC- I was mislead and feel awful about that. Our puppy is just adorable though and the vet says she is in perfect health so I have to wonder about all the postings on this forum. Some said have a dog spayed because she is not AKC? I am confused about that statement. She can't/shouldn't ever have a litter because she doesn't belong to the better of the two organizations? If we don't plan to have a show dog (and are okay with that)and assume her puppies won't be show dogs (and are okay with that too) then why would we have her spayed? Am I missing something?
The APRI registry has been known to be the registry of choice for puppy millers and back yard breeders. And APRI does not lists standards for their animals. Therefore, the quality of their animals is below what anyone knowledgeable would consider quality, and deserving to be bred. What you may be missing is this...unless the dog is an excellent example of the standard (the AKC standard), it should not be bred, because you are not breeding for the betterment of the breed. Why produce sub-quality dogs? Furthermore, there are way too many dogs sitting in shelters without homes, and you do not want to add to, or take away homes from these deserving animals. Therefore, it's my opinion that it would be in your best interest, for both you and the dog, to have her spayed. But, love her like she was the greatest dog on earth...she really doesn't care what papers she has, she just cares for your love.

TO BREED OR NOT TO BREED – THAT IS THE QUESTION
 
#36 · (Edited)
Unless your dog is a top quality example of the breed and show either in confirmation or field trials that you earn titles, he/she should NOT be bred period. And you should be testing your dog before you breed for any of the breed inherited problems - many breeds have problems with hip dyplasia. Some other have eye problems, etc.

No dog needs to have a litter before being spayed. A good breeder will get clearances for their dogs, carefully select the best homes for puppies and be willing to back up health guarentees and be willing to take the dog back if the owner can't keep it.


Here is another website that lists the puppymill/backyard breeders registries for anyone considering buying a dog. Keep those other associations in mind and stay away from any breeder/pet shop that is registering puppies under one of these groups:

http://members.tripod.com/~Moosewood/registries.html


These are the first 3 (maybe the worse ones?)

ACA - American Canine Association Advertises that over 3000 adult breeding canines are registered each week. Only registry endorsed by Petland. **Caters to commercial breeders.** Refers puppy seekers to pet stores.

APRI - AMERICA'S PET REGISTRY INC. Advertises free registration for commercial breeders. Non Profit 'dedicated to the preservation of the professional pet industry', dogs and cats. Founded by retailers of pets (commercial breeders and resellers).

CKC-Continental Kennel Club (do not confuse with Canadian Kennel Club!)
CKC will recognize a cross between any two purebred dogs, and will issue a registration certificate on their offspring. These crosses are not registered as purebred dogs but are registered as the offspring of purebred dogs. CKC accepts no responsibility for any inaccurate, false, or fraudulent information submitted on registration applications. They sponsor no shows or championships. They also give big fee breaks to large kennels registering lots of dogs (such as Puppy Mills). Will register dogs not registered with other recognized registries.
 
#37 ·
And I thought this thread had gone over the rainbow bridge! Sheesh!

To Cookie's mom:

Birthing has many, many health risks. If you get your dog spayed, it will prevent all that.

If you know (your words, not mine) that your dog is not show quality, why would you put her life at risk to have poor quality puppies?

If you spay her, she won't EVEN know what she's missing.

People tend to try to humanize their pets- we imagine how WE would feel in their place. However, what you're forgetting is that dogs can't think on our level.

As I've said before, she'll have no clue.

Plus, spaying prevents all types of problems in dogs. You want her to live a long and healthy life, right?
 
#38 ·
ATTENTION ALL NOVICE POTENTIAL BREEDERS!!

SO YOU WANT TO BE A BREEDER? - Breeding the female
So you want to breed your female. You know what to expect if everything goes right. Your little girl will present you with tiny bundles of joy. She will lovingly nurse them and care for them until they are old enough to be weaned.

You and your family will find great joy in watching and playing with these little dolls, and then when the time is right they will all (or maybe you keep just one) go off to special homes to live out their lives as cherished companions. But have you given consideration to what if something goeswrong? I have listed here a few of the problems that I myself have personal knowledge of. Everything listed has happened either to me or someone I know. These are not isolated incidents. I'm sure other breeders could add miles to my list. Learn by others mistakes!. Let the breeding up to those who know what they are doing, have the experience, know what to expect.

WHAT IF DURING THE BREEDING


The stud dog you have chosen is carrying a venereal disease and gives it to your female. She not only doesn't conceive but you have to pay the vet bills to get her infection cleared up and she is now sterile.
The stud dog you decided to breed your darling to is not experienced. Once the two dogs are joined tightly in a tie, he decides to chase the neighbors cat out of his yard. He bolts for the cat ripping his penis loose and causing your bitch to hemorrhage from within.
Your modest girl decides she doesn't want the attentions of this gigolo mutt chosen for her without her consent. She snaps at him catching her tooth on his loose cheek and rips it open sending blood flying everywhere. He retaliates by sinking his teeth into her left eye.
You leave your dog with the stud owner because the breeding is not going very swiftly. In fact , it's been three hours and nothing is happening. The stud owners leave the two dogs alone in the back yard. The dogs get out through a tiny hole in the fence and a truck hits your female.
You pay the $250-$1000 stud fee up front figuring you will make that and more back when the pups sell. The breeder guarantees the stud service to work or you can come back again. After 2 months you discover it didn't work and now must wait another 4 months to try again. Of course it doesn't work again, so in another 4 months you take your dog to another male and risk loosing another stud fee.
You get her bred. Bring her home. She bothers you so you let her out she is still in heat and still receptive to males. You hear a commotion outside there is your girl tied up with the neighborhood mutt. when she whelps there will need to be DNA tests done on the pups.
You get her bred. Bring her home and let her out. (She is still in heat and receptive to other males) but you do not see the neighborhood mutt breed her. The pups are born but look odd. You call the stud owner he suggests DNA testing (At your expense). You have a litter of mutts! What do you do about the ones you have already sold?
Or knowing she tied with the neighborhood mutt you decide to terminate the pregnancy and try again being more careful next time. But a few weeks later your female is very sick because you had her given a miss-mate shot creating a hormonal imbalance causing a uterine infection and now she has Pyometra and needs a complete hysterectomy. All plans of getting a litter is gone and your female's life is now in danger if she does not have the operation.
WHAT IF DURING THE BIRTH


The puppies are too large for the female. She never goes into labor, the puppies die and she becomes infected by the decaying bodies.
The puppies are coming breech and they drown in their own sacks before they can be born.
The first puppy is large and breech. When it starts coming your female starts screaming, and before you can stop her she reaches around, grabs the puppy in her teeth and yanks it out killing it instantly.
A puppy gets stuck. Neither your female nor you can get it out. You have to race her to the vet. The vet can't get it out either. She has to have an emergency caesarian section of course it is 3:00 am Christmas day.
A puppy is coming out breech and dry (the water sack that protects them has burst). It gets stuck. Mom tries to help it out by clamping her teeth over one of the back legs. The head and shoulders are firmly caught. Mom pulls on the leg, hard, peeling the flesh from the leg and leaving a wiggling stump of bone.
A dead puppy gets stuck in the birth canal, but your female is well into hard labor. She contracts so hard trying to give birth that her uterus ruptures and she bleeds to death on the way to the vet.
WHAT IF DIRECTLY AFTER THE BIRTH


The mother has no idea what to do with a puppy and she drops them out and walks away, leaving them in the sack to drown.
The mother takes one look at the puppies, decides they are disgusting droppings and tries to smother them in anything she can find to bury them in.
The mother gets too enthusiastic in her removal of the placenta and umbilical cord, and rips the cord out leaving a gushing hole pulsing blood all over you as you try in vain to stop the bleeding.
Or, she pulls on the cords so hard she disembowels the puppies as they are born and you have a box full of tiny, kicking babies with a tangle of guts the size of a walnut hanging from their stomachs. Of course all the babies must be put to sleep.
What if because of some Hormone deficiency she turns vicious allowing no one near her or the babies, who she refuses to nurse, or you have to interfere with.
You notice something protruding from her vagina when you let her out to pee. You take her to the vet to discover a prolapsed uterus, which needs to be removed.
WHAT IF WHEN YOU THINK YOU'RE IN THE CLEAR


One or more of the puppies inhaled fluid during birth, pneumonia develops and death occurs within 36 hours.
What if the mother's milk goes bad. You lose three of your four puppies before you discover what is wrong. You end up bottle feeding the remaining pup every two hours, day and night. After three days the puppy fades from infection and dies.
The puppies develop fading puppy syndrome you lose two. You bottle-feeding or tube feeding the last remaining baby. It begins to choke and despite your efforts to clear the airway, the pup stiffens and dies in your hands.
Your female develops mastitis and her breast ruptures.
Your female develops a uterine infection from a retained placenta. Her temperature soars to 105. You race her to the vet, he determines she must be spayed. He does the spay in an attempt to save her life, you pay the hundreds of dollars bill. The infection has gone into her blood stream. The infected milk kills all the puppies and the bitch succumbs a day later.
All the puppies are fine but following the birth the female develops a hormone imbalance. She becomes a fear biter and anytime anyone tries to touch her she viciously attacks them.
Mom and pups seem fine, the puppies are four weeks old and are at their cutest. However, one day one of the puppies disappears. You search everywhere but you can't find it. A few days later another puppy is gone. And another. You can't figure how on earth the puppies are getting out of their safe 4' x 4' puppy pen. Finally there is only one puppy left. The next morning you find the mother chomping contentedly on what is left of the last murdered puppy.
WHAT IF THE NEW HOMES AREN'T SO HAPPY


You give a puppy to a friend. Their fence blows down so they tie the puppy outside while they go to work. A roving dog comes along and kills the puppy. Your friend calls you up to tell you about the poor little puppy and asks when you are having more puppies.
You sell a puppy to an acquaintance. The next time you see them you ask how the puppy is doing. They tell you that it soiled their new carpet so they took it to the pound
You sell a puppy to a friend (you give them a good price and payments). They make a couple of tiny payments. Six months later they move to an apartment. They ask you to take it back. You take it back and of course the payments stop. The dog they returned is so shy, and ill mannered from lack of socialization and training it takes you a year of work providing socializing and training to be able to give it away.
You sell a puppy to a wonderful home. They love her like one of the family. At a vet check done by their vet it is determined that the puppy has a heart murmur. (Your vet found nothing when he checked the puppy before it was sold.) They love their puppy and want the best for her. They have an expensive surgery done. The puppy is fine. They sue you for the medical costs. They win, because you did not have a contract stipulating conditions of guarantee and so as breeder you are responsible for the puppy's genetic health.
You give a puppy to your mother. She is thrilled. Two years later the puppy starts developing problems. It begins to develop odd symptoms and is suffering. Hundreds and hundreds of dollars worth of tests later it is finally discovered that the dog is suffering from a terminal condition that was inherited. possibly from your female since you know nothing about her family lines.
One loving home decides your puppy is untrainable, destructive and wants to return the pup and get a full refund, which you have spent on your vet bills.
One loving couple calls you and is very upset because their pup has crippling hip dysplasia and want to know what you are going to do about it. You have spayed your female so a replacement is out of the question, looks like another refund.
THE SALE




this was written by Laura Turner and located at http://www.woodhavenlabs.com/breeding/breeder2.html
 
#39 ·
You put your ad in the local paper for your pups at the usual price and get only 2 responses and no sales. You cut the pup's price in half and broaden your advertising to 3 other newspapers in which the advertising totals $120.00 a week.
You get a few more puppy inquiries from people who ask all about health testing you did before breeding and if the pups are registered. You tell them your dogs are healthy and it was enough and that you could get the papers. The callers politely thank you and hang up.
The pups are now 4 months old and getting bigger , eating alot and their barking is really beginning to annoy the neighbors who call the police who inform you of the $150.00 noise by-law.
Your neighbors also call the humane society who comes out to inspect the care of your dogs. You pass inspection but end up feeling stressed and harassed.
You finally decide to give the rest of the litter away but still have to pay the $1200.00 advertising bill and the $600.00 vet bill.
So you gotta ask yourself: Do I feel lucky? Well, do ya, "breeder?"

Written by Laura Turner, found at http://www.woodhavenlabs.com/breeding/breeder2.html
 
#40 ·
Well I did want to learn something and I have. All of your comments make sense and I agree with most of them. Our puppy is so sweet and the kids adore her. My husband and I hoped that in a few years they would have the opourtunity to see her have a litter but I am sure they would rather have her around longer than have a litter. On a different note- all the talk about backyard breeders and puppymills have me terrified. How will I be able to tell if she is going to be a sickly pup? Are they any signs I should be watching for? She doesn't have a cough or anything obvious now.
 
#46 ·
How will I be able to tell if she is going to be a sickly pup? Are they any signs I should be watching for? She doesn't have a cough or anything obvious now.
Elsa is a product of a puppy mill. She's now almost 2, healthy, and spayed. There's no way for me or even someone with a health guarantee for their dog to be able to predict if she will be sick tomorrow or later in the future. This is something every dog owner must consider when getting a dog regardless. Therefore, if your dog is healthy now, be happy, and love her regardless of what her future may hold. I would hope, and you should too, that your dog will live a happy and healthy life for no other reason than because you're there. So enjoy this dog as you would any loved pet.
 
#42 ·
First, I'm not a dog. No need to call me "girl" or tell me to stop "growling." I find that insulting.

Secondly, even though I wish I could take credit for that, I didn't write it myself.

If you click the links on the bottom of the post, you'd know that. I always cite my sources.
 
#43 ·
Okay then.....

It seemed harsh...source or not. I wasn't claiming to be a breeder or even asking how to become one. Anyhow- your first post made me think and the next one was just over the top. I came to this site to ask for advice from people who love dogs but I expected them to be nice to people too. Thanks anyway.
 
#45 ·
Cookie,

It's hard to sometimes stop and count to 10 when you have people coming here (or in real life) wanting to breed just one time. Too many "one time" puppies/dogs are sitting in shelters right now.

We want the breeders who are serious about their breed and want to improve both the health and type of the breed to be the ones that are breeding. Its too much work, expense, etc. to just let your dog have a litter - or put the male out for stud. You should be responsible for EVERY puppy you bring into this world. And a good breeder with neuter/spay before they go to their new homes. They will test their own dogs for health problems (which can get quite expensive for clearances). The goal should be to produce BETTER then the parents - not the opposite.

If you want another puppy, go to the breed rescue groups or take a look at Petfinder.com or your local shelter to adopt. You'll be much happier that way.
 
#48 ·
Excellent post, DA.

Yes, Keno's Mom- you're totally right about the needing to take a breath and count to 10.

I think what got me was on that one post where she said she didn't care if her dog was quality, or whether the puppies would be quality. I admit, when I read that I sighed on the inside and thought, "Aren't there enough poor quality dogs in the world? Do we really need a litter more?"

So yeah, the information I chose to dispense to her was from a breeder who has fiesty views on dog breeding.

I PROMISED that I was going to take a sabbatical from the BYB threads... but every time I see something like that, I hit the "submit reply" button before I know what's going on! :)
 
#51 · (Edited)
I read a few of the posts on this thread and I'm really not too interested in reading the entire thread. In my opinion the AKC is just as phoney as any of the other dog registries everyone seems to be buzzing about, not to mention they are complete snobs! My family has had boxers for many, many years and have a pure love for the breed. Growing up with them all my life, I had an AKC registered boxer who was the most gorgeous dog I've ever seen. When I looked at his pedigree I was completely baffled by the fact that this supposed champion bloodline boxer had a WHITE boxer in its line. Here is a copy and paste from the AKC site itself as to the disqualifications of the breed:

Color
The colors are fawn and brindle. Fawn shades vary from light tan to mahogany. The brindle ranges from sparse but clearly defined black stripes on a fawn background to such a heavy concentration of black striping that the essential fawn background color barely, although clearly, shows through (which may create the appearance of reverse brindling). White markings, if present, should be of such distribution as to enhance the dog's appearance, but may not exceed one-third of the entire coat. They are not desirable on the flanks or on the back of the torso proper. On the face, white may replace part of the otherwise essential black mask, and may extend in an upward path between the eyes, but it must not be excessive, so as to detract from true Boxer expression. The absence of white markings, the so-called "plain" fawn or brindle, is perfectly acceptable, and should not be penalized in any consideration of color. Disqualifications Boxers that are any color other than fawn or brindle. Boxers with a total of white markings exceeding one-third of the entire coat.

There it is in black and white. My boxer developed cancer and had to be put down. I never bred him....had the white boxer not been in his ancestry, I might have. I certainly had offers to breed him everywhere I went. Did I love him any less?? Hell no! He was the best damn dog anyone could ever hope for. Was he smart?? He was the smartest damn dog on the block and the most attractive. I don't care what a piece of paper says. NOBODY can guarantee anything! Does a marriage certificate guarantee your marriage? Its just paper. Paper is meaningless.

Now I hear so much crap about people who get their dogs from puppymills or where ever else. What the heck does it matter where you get your dog from? Its how responsible you are when you have it, how well you train it, and love it.

I volunteered my time to my local Humane Society. I had pure satisfaction walking those poor dogs whenever I could go down there. Its not their fault they are there. If they could have chosen, do you think they'd have?? I seriously doubt it! Month after month, I saw so many different types of dogs in and out of there. My heart reached out to a little Pekingnese--who was picked up as a stray. My guess is that he escaped and ran away from home. Yes, he is PURE BREED. And let me tell you, I wish I could find out who his owners were! He was so badly matted and tested heartworm positive. I seriously inquired about adopting him. Yes, I paid a small fee to adopt him. I could have purchased 3 more dogs from a breeder, I had the money to do so. To me, it wasn't about that. It was about rescuing this poor dog from his situation and giving him a future...a loving stable home to call his own. The staff tried to talk me out of adopting him telling me how many dogs they get back dead because the owners who adopt heartworm positive dogs don't really know how to take care of them after the treatment they undergo to rid them. I was bound and determined. If I didn't think I could have handled this responsibility, I NEVER would have sought him. To date, 2 years later, he is blessed with a beautiful family and home. I love him to pieces. I have no papers, other than his adoption papers, that secure our bond. We don't need any. He is a beautiful dog! His hair grew in nicely and he gets the proper heartworm pills on time every month. I rescued him and that is enough for me. I am proud and fullfilled just knowing that.

People like to flash AKC papers all around the place but they don't make you wise or responsible. Just means you are ignorant when you don't take the time to educate yourself about your dog.

Acquiring a pure breed from a breeder doesn't necessarily mean that you obtained a pup from a reputible person. The AKC pushes buying your puppies from breeders only. There ARE good petstores out there and I, for one, will not rule out ever buying from one. How can you be 100% sure and/or trusting in people these days?? I do not put trust in people. When someone wins my trust, its because they earned it. Otherwise, this person is just as phoney as the next one.

I'm tired of snobs. For all we know the APRI could have been born because they got tired of AKC. I hope some day another registry will be good enough to break up that little clique and monopoly they have going.

Pets are to be loved, pure and simple. Should it matter if our dog is a champion or not?? Ask any proud pet owner what they think of their dog and they will tell you they have a champion in their own right. Enough said, I'm off the soap box for the day. Thanks.
 
#52 ·
Snowshoe, I don't see AKC registration as being anything great.
"There is a widely held belief that "AKC" or "AKC papers" and quality are one and the same. This is not the case. AKC is a registry body. A registration certificate identifies the dog as the offspring of a known sire and dam, born on a known date. It in no way indicates the quality or state of health of the dog." - from the AKC website.
There is also a good chance that the breeder is not being truthful about the information on the slip....AKC doesn't really check. They just count on the integrity of the breeder.
 
#53 · (Edited)
Yes, it does matter if the dog is proven in a ring. To insure that your breeder is responsible, they must prove their breeding program by having their dogs judged amongt their peers. Whether it's in the show ring, or in trials, the responsible breeder will always test their breeding program. You are correct in saying that an owner needs to do their homework, however, if you're going to buy a purebred, it's incorrect to suggest that proof of the dog's worth isn't necessary. It is necessary as that's what responsible breeders do. It may be snobby to flash pedigrees, but if they've done their homework, and bought their dog from the best breeder possible, that breeder should be rewarded with dog owners who are willing to flash their pedigree. For no other reason than to show support for responsible breeders. And I'm sorry, but no responsible breeder will sell pups from a pet store, period. No one is saying these dogs don't deserve love, but the breeders who produce them don't deserve our hard earned money. And before you generalize all show ring breeders as snobs, maybe you should look into what they do for their breed before criticising them. Yes, there are exceptions, and good breeders are hard to find, and no there isn't a 100% gurantee on people. But if you do your homework like you suggested, reputable breeders do show their dogs in one arena or another. So unless you're going to demand more from all breeders, you might want to hold back criticising those who actually are responsible...like many show ring breeders.
 
#54 · (Edited)
AKC doesn't really check.They just count on the integrity of the breeder.
http://www.akc.org/about/depts/investigations.cfm

Personally, I have mixed feeling on the entire situation. I know that the AKC in no way guarantees soundness of the dogs registered with their seal, but it does account for something. As an entire entity, I trust it a thousand times more than I can trust miller registries. There are crooked people involved in all registries who are out to get money based on reputation and demand for a high quality animal, but that doesn't tarnish the entire registry. The AKC provides sanctioned events to create venues to prove dogs in conformation, agility, obedience, lurecoursing, etc. as well as rescue foundations and events to reinforce responsible ownership and ethical breeding. I can't say the same for some of these Miller Registries.

Red lights should be going off in your head if advertisements chant "AKC Papers!".

Some of the things you want to look for is..

"Dogs proven in many venues including : .."
"Years breeding : .."
"Litters a year : .."
"Following genetic testing has been done : .."
 
#55 · (Edited)
I will reiterate from my initial post, AKC never should have allowed a white boxer to be registered...yet, I had a boxer with AKC registration and his pedigree named a WHITE boxer in his ancestry. Anyone who knows Boxers, knows that all white boxers are disqualifications for AKC registration. Had they done their homework instead of just issuing papers, they'd have realized they registered a boxer that never should have been. What then? You still think they are reputable?? I surely don't.

Ohh one more thing, my so-called AKC champion blood line boxer was obtained from a breeder too.
 
#56 ·
I will reiterate from my initial post, AKC never should have allowed a white boxer to be registered...yet, I had a boxer with AKC registration and his pedigree named a WHITE boxer in his ancestry. Anyone who knows Boxers, knows that all white boxers are disqualifications for AKC registration. Had they done their homework instead of just issuing papers, they'd have realized they registered a boxer that never should have been. What then? You still think they are reputable?? I surely don't.
No, I actually think the "breeder" is not reputable. But in it's current state, the AKC does not have the power to verify all breeders are reputable. So if you're point is that you should know that a breeder who calls their boxers "white boxers" isn't a reputable breeder, I would agree with you. But to point fingers at the AKC, I would say is not the appropriate place to point fingers. You would be closer to the target by pointing fingers at the individual/specific breed clubs, but the responsibility still remains on the breeders...where it should be. It would be nice if the AKC could act as a governing agency to control breeding practices, but I don't see that happening anytime soon, although they are making efforts to organize information better. Regardless, AKC papers mean nothing without all the other checks necessary in finding a pup...to that point I agree. However, to claim they are entirely worthless based on one anecdotal example, I'd say is hasty. As a registry of registries, The AKC is the best we have here in the states, with very few exceptions, and APRI is definitely not an exception.
 
#57 ·
Hogwash! They WERE responsible for allowing papers on a dog that was clearly written on the pedigree as WHITE, a disqualification. The breeder was very irresponsible, I agree, but AKC was just as irresponsible for allowing these papers to go through. If they don't regulate, they are just as phoney as the other pet registries that are being dis-counted. That was my point and will remain as such.
 
#58 · (Edited)
Hogwash! They WERE responsible for allowing papers on a dog that was clearly written on the pedigree as WHITE, a disqualification. The breeder was very irresponsible, I agree, but AKC was just as irresponsible for allowing these papers to go through. If they don't regulate, they are just as phoney as the other pet registries that are being dis-counted. That was my point and will remain as such.
Care to give any anecdotal evidence on how you're perfect? Or do you have a plan on how the AKC can give guarantees, or how and why they should interfere in the customer/breeder transaction? Because if you're point is that the AKC is "phoney" because of one obvious anecdotal example of an error without proof of intention, I still contend that's hasty, and will remain as such.
 
#59 ·
You have no way of ever knowing that this is just ONE error. How many dogs do they register each day, week, month...or year??!! If they handle them all the way they handled this one, god help us all. We'll all have been had. LMAO!!!

Proceed with caution when purchasing a pet from ANYWHERE and proceed with caution when papering your dog...AKC or otherwise!
 
#60 ·
You have no way of ever knowing that this is just ONE error. How many dogs do they register each day, week, month...or year??!! If they handle them all the way they handled this one, god help us all. We'll all have been had. LMAO!!!

Proceed with caution when purchasing a pet from ANYWHERE and proceed with caution when papering your dog...AKC or otherwise!
I can agree with these points..."IF" they handled every registration with an intention this way it would be a problem. Regardless, the reponsibility still remains between the breeder/customer...period. And I whole heartedly agree that everyone should proceed with caution when buying any dog. As it always seems to come down to this: Where good dogs come from. - Dog Forums - all breed dog forum.
 
#61 ·
Care to give any anecdotal evidence on how you're perfect? Or do you have a plan on how the AKC can give guarantees, or how and why they should interfere in the customer/breeder transaction?


No, I don't care to give any anecdotal evidence on how I'm perfect, I'm not here for that. I read this thread and saw how much you people have been chastising others for obtaining their dogs from various sources and/or having non akc registered pooches. When its quite obvious you may have never heard any of the sad stories, such as one like mine. Yeah, I have a bad taste in my mouth about AKC. And its not my job to figure out how they can improve, I'm not here for that either. If it were my organization, I'd be improving it though. I'm just here to make a simple post. Haha. Thats it, plain and simple. I read a post where someone said go to the APRI website and then go to AKC and see which one "looks" more reputable. A website is a website. I can make one look BETTER than AKC...does that make me more reputable then them?? Come on!!!!!!
 
#62 · (Edited)
The point was there are more red flags on the APRI site than the AKC site. To someone who's knowledgable about what should be contained on the website, the red flags of the APRI site is obvious. It doesn't take a genious to see that information is lacking severely. And if the APRI site should ever contend to be valuable, an effort must be obvious. The fact is it's not. So as a starting point, the AKC website wins hands down. It's a starting point, it should not be misconstrued as evidence of quality for the puppy you buy. Again, only a knowledgable owner can assure their pups quality by the choices they make. And I'm sorry, anecdotes don't hold much water with me. Did you confront the AKC? Who have you spoken to about your case?
 
#67 ·
If you think that the AKC site is good you should go look at some real registration sites. AKC is so lacking it is not funny. There is so much they can do to not only improve their site but also the registry. I actually find the AKC a joke when it comes to registries. Sad thing is it is the best for Dog registires in this country.

Heidi
 
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