Dog Pooping out of revenge?
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    Dog Pooping out of revenge?

    Hello,

    I am having a problem with my 1 year old Beagle Roxy. (we have only had her a few weeks)She is a well behaved dog and is housetrained. We do have an issue with jumping and mounting myself, my kids but not my husband. We are working with a trainer on this.

    I do have a couple of questions about housetraining. My husband usually feeds her and takes her out but he is out of town this week. She does this when he is here too but she poops and pees in the house when she gets mad at us. Normally she goes outside fine. This week I was changing my son's diaper it was a really bad one and she likes to get into the diaper so I shut the door. It was for 30 seconds, she went downstairs and pooped in our dining room. I found it the next morning but I didn't scold her or anything. That morning I put her outside and and waited to see if she would go for me. She refused so I put her in her kennel when I took my daughter to school. When we got home I took her outside she still wouldn't go. I had to unload some groceries and I didn't want my 2 year old outside so I shut the sliding glass door. She pooped all over the patio (she has done this many times if put outside and the door is shut) Although we have left her in the house free to roam several times and never come home to an incident. I cleaned up the mess and did what the trainer told us to do - put her food dishes where she poops. I let her back in the house and left the door open so she could come in and out, I thought well she had already gone so I won't have to worry about it now. Even though she had been outside and had free access to outside she went up to the top of the stairs and peed. I didn't scold her because I didn't catch her in the act. I just made sure she could get out and that evening when I put her dinner out I waited and waited for her to go poop and pee. We played and played outside with the kids, and when it was time to go in for baths she didn't want to come in so I shut the door, gave the kids a bath and came down to a suprise on the porch right by her food dishes. I thought well I better keep her in her kennel tonight so that I don't get any surprises in the house. I put her in the kennel put the kids to bed and then offered to take her back outside, she wouldn't go. This morning at 6:30 we got up and I took her outside to the back yard, I fed her. At 7am she still had not gone pee or poop so I put her back in her kennel so I could get the kids and myself dressed. (I have to keep her in the kennel when we are getting dressed because she has jumped up and scratched my son by accident a few time and knocked him down. So since I can't supervise I just put her in her kennel, I thought this would be better than putting her in the backyard with the door shut. I take her out again at 8 before I take my daughter to school, still nothing, so I kennel her. Today when I got home and she was crying in her kennel which is unusual and I go up there and she peed all over in her kennel. It was a lot so I am sure she just couldn't hold it. I put her outside so I could clean up her kennel but my son was sick today and I didn't want him going outside so I had to shut her outside until I could clean out her kennel. I caught her in the act of pooping on the stoop again. This time she had knocked her food dish off the stoop. The dog trainer said to spray her with water, so I did, it did nothing. I cleaned up the mess but left her outside for awhile and she pooped again and again. I know she is doing this out of anger but I don't know what to do. My husband who is out of time has a little more time to spend outside with her in the morning and makes sure he takes her out at night before he goes to bed. I know she is out of her routine, I am trying to be understanding but is this just aggressive pooping behavior?

    Any advise would be helpful. I do have treats for when she goes poop and pee when we are outside watching but so far no such luck in getting the treats. We are working with a trainer but I tried his suggestions with no luck. Also this is my first ever dog.

    Crystal

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    Senior Member Durbkat's Avatar
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    Re: Dog Pooping out of revenge?

    Dogs aren't capable of human emotions such as revenge and anger. Dogs don't generalize well so while she may have been house trained at where she used to live but she may not generalize to well and doesn't understand that she can't go in the house. I would treat her like a puppy and crate her when you can't watch her, and take her out every couple of hours, restrict water and take it up two hours before bed time and put her meals on a schedule as well as her potty breaks.

    What have you been cleaning accidents up with? If its not an enzyme cleaner such as Nature's Miracle then you will need to get your carpets professionally cleaned and tell them there is pet urine and feces in the carpet so that they will use a special cleaner. She is smelling her scent which is what makes her think its ok to go in the house.

    About your dog's trainer, you may want to get a new one as it doesn't sound like she knows what she is doing. Spraying a dog teaches it nothing, you are just cooling it off and giving it a drink. Putting the food bowl over the accidents won't teach her anything either. Perhaps you should look for a trainer who only works with positive reinforcement.
    Last edited by Durbkat; 05-21-2008 at 06:17 PM.


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    Re: Dog Pooping out of revenge?

    I am little confused I did think that dogs do have emotions. Isn't that why positive reinforcement works so well? They feel happy right?

    The dog is housetrained. She goes poop and pee when my husband is here just fine. In fact if I leave the door open all day she comes in and out. She only does this when the door is shut or she is shut out. Say I shut her out of the bedroom or shut the door to the patio. Our schedule is a little mixed up because I am the one taking her out instead of my husband. So that confuses me a little more because if dogs don't have emotions would she develop a bond with one member of the family? Should it matter who takes her potty in the morning and at night?

    I was told that she would not poop and pee where she eats and that is why I put the food and water dish there. However that didn't work for us today.

    Oh I did find on here about Nature's miracle. Thanks.

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    Senior Member Durbkat's Avatar
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    Re: Dog Pooping out of revenge?

    Quote Originally Posted by Durbkat View Post
    Dogs aren't capable of human emotions such as revenge and anger. Dogs don't generalize well so while she may have been house trained at where she used to live but she may not generalize to well and doesn't understand that she can't go in the house. I would treat her like a puppy and crate her when you can't watch her, and take her out every couple of hours, restrict water and take it up two hours before bed time and put her meals on a schedule as well as her potty breaks.
    I didn't say that they weren't capable of emotions, I said they weren't capable of certain emotions. If the dog goes in the house then it isn't house trained, sorry.

    Quote Originally Posted by clnewberry1 View Post
    I was told that she would not poop and pee where she eats and that is why I put the food and water dish there. However that didn't work for us today.
    I don't believe thats true, when Snoopy was a puppy he pee'd near his water bowl and went on and drank out of it.

    Quote Originally Posted by clnewberry1 View Post
    Oh I did find on here about Nature's miracle. Thanks.
    But have you been using it?
    Last edited by Durbkat; 05-21-2008 at 06:43 PM.


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    Senior Member Annamarie's Avatar
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    Re: Dog Pooping out of revenge?

    I know everyone says that animals aren't capable of emotions like revenge, but my perfectly potty trained dog will go hide somewhere and poop in the house if say, I'm cuddling with another dog or paying more attention to them than to him. I have to say I think he knows full well what he's doing.

    I don't have anything to add for the training part other than that, but I will be keeping an eye on this thread because I'm sure the 'revenge pooping' will happen when our baby is born.
    Manager of a three ring circus. One tantruming toddler, one hyper min pin, and fostering a chunky old lab.

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    Senior Member PeppersPop's Avatar
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    Re: Dog Pooping out of revenge?

    Your dog has/is going through some major changes... I think that the toileting issues are related to that. I don't think that the dog is mad at you or trying to punish you. I think that she is probably confused, scared, and insecure.

    You've changed the dog's routine and you've not only changed but completely removed her primary caregiver.

    You've got a son in diapers... if you left and went somewhere and a babysitter stepped in, had different rules, a different routine, put him to bed and woke him up at different times, etc. wouldn't you expect him to act up? Cry more than normal, maybe even throw a tantrum, regress on his potty training (if he's old enough to have started), have difficulty going to sleep... he wouldn't understand what was going on, he wouldn't understand where you went, he wouldn't have the mental ability to know that even though the babysitter isn't you, s/he will take good care of him... and he wouldn't know that you are coming back.

    Spraying the dog isn't going to help unless you catch her in the act---even then, it may not help, it may just scare her more.

    Suggestions:
    Try to get the dog back on her regular schedule or as close to it as you can manage.

    Don't give the dog access to places you don't want her to go. If you don't want her going on the patio, figure out someway to keep her off of it.

    Use the crate.

    Don't let the dog out of the crate unless you are able to directly supervise her... especially if she is somewhere that you don't want her using for a toilet.

    You can use a leash inside, if you need to.

    Good luck to you. It sounds like a difficult situation. I'm guessing that you will see better behavior when your husband comes back. If your husband is gone a lot, maybe you and he could switch off some duties... you take the dog out at night, he puts the kids to bed, that sort of thing, so that the dog get used to you and learns to trust you.

    I'm a relative new dog owner... so please take this all with a grain of sand. Hopefully you will get lots of helpful advice from the more seasoned dog owners.

    Best wishes.
    Sid
    Last edited by RonE; 05-22-2008 at 05:20 AM. Reason: quoting entire original post is unnecessary

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    Re: Dog Pooping out of revenge?

    Yes, I have used the Natures Miracle and I think it works great. She pooped once in the house when I shut the door, the pooping is going on outside on the back patio. The peeing has happend more than once but only the one time in which she had free access to outside and the yard and that was after we had an incident of pooping on the back porch. The peeing accidents I think were three have been our fault and not listening to her cues.

    I didn't mean to offend you by the emotions comment - this is my first dog. However revenge pooping may not be the best choice of words, but the pooping on the stoop only happens when Roxy is feeling something - what dog emotion that is please tell me, please I am here wanting help. How do you know if your dog is housetrained when 99% of the time she goes outside with no problems? The only time she goes in the house is when she is feeling something like mad, it's almost like let me show you. I don't think dogs have that sophisticated sense of self and manipulation but I feel like something more than not knowing where to poop is happening.

    Thanks for your time and posts - again I am here to learn.

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    Senior Member Durbkat's Avatar
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    Re: Dog Pooping out of revenge?

    I am not sure what she is showing, but have you shown her where you want her to go by taking her out on a leash to the area you want her to go till she goes their on her own?


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    Re: Dog Pooping out of revenge?

    She typically pees in the same spot, at least before now. Although I have a hard time telling when she pees because of the way she stands. She has just pooped wherever. Maybe it would be helpful for me to take her on the leash, it's worth a try. How long should I wait before she is supposed to go?

    Tonight a couple of times I had to shut her outside always for just a few minutes and if she didn't poop on the stoop I gave her a treat. However now I am worried that she won't poop at all. Maybe I am rewarding the wrong thing. We have been outside for the past 2 hours with no poop.

    I hope I don't screw up the dog. The trainer will be here again on Wednesday but oh my - we adopted an adult dog that supposed to already be trained so I wouldn't have to do this. My husband wanted a puppy!!

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    Senior Member Durbkat's Avatar
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    Re: Dog Pooping out of revenge?

    Like I said, I would treat the dog like a puppy and put it on a strict bathroom, water and food schedule. Write down how long it takes after she eats and drinks before she goes so that you will have an idea of when she will need to go. Perhaps instead of putting her outside when you can't watch her, put her in her crate instead.


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    Senior Member PeppersPop's Avatar
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    Re: Dog Pooping out of revenge?

    I don't think that dogs are able to reason enough to seek revenge.

    Revenge is an attempt to punish you for something you're doing that the revenge-seeker thinks is wrong and to keep you from doing it again.

    Pooping in the house doesn't stop/keep you from paying attention to the other dogs. I think your dog probably does it to get your attention. Hey, pay attention to me!! Me! Me! Me! It diverts/re-directs your attention to the pooper.

    If he were seeking revenge, then I think he'd attack/kill the other dogs (or maybe you). His pooping doesn't stop the other dogs from seeking/receiving your attention and it doesn't stop you from giving it.

    But who knows...


    Quote Originally Posted by Annamarie View Post
    I know everyone says that animals aren't capable of emotions like revenge, but my perfectly potty trained dog will go hide somewhere and poop in the house if say, I'm cuddling with another dog or paying more attention to them than to him. I have to say I think he knows full well what he's doing.

    I don't have anything to add for the training part other than that, but I will be keeping an eye on this thread because I'm sure the 'revenge pooping' will happen when our baby is born.
    You obviously care about this dog and are doing your best with her... you're online looking for advice on how to take care of her and are working with a trainer. I don't think you're anywhere near screwing up the dog.

    I wanted a puppy as well, but they are hard to find in the shelters up here, so we ended up with Pepper. He has had none of the problems that his previous family listed and several that they didn't. It takes time and patience, but he's doing a lot better.

    Good luck to you.

    Quote Originally Posted by clnewberry1 View Post
    I hope I don't screw up the dog. The trainer will be here again on Wednesday but oh my - we adopted an adult dog that supposed to already be trained so I wouldn't have to do this. My husband wanted a puppy!!
    Last edited by PeppersPop; 05-21-2008 at 08:51 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

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    Re: Dog Pooping out of revenge?

    Do you feed on a schedule? or leave the food out all the time?
    When dogs are eating on a schedule they poop on a schedule too. You should remove the food after giving them a time limit to eat. People on here give them 15 minutes. I give mine about 45 minutes. Take the dog for a walk>an actual walk>not walking around in the back yard. Mine if you take them for a good 20 minute walk, will smell everything in sight and poop and pee every time. If I walk them around in the yard they will usually go, but if they see a squirrel or chipmunk> they forget about everything else. Sometimes they are too busy smelling stuff and I think they just forget to go(they don't do this on a walk). Then when they calm down in the house>then they think about going and it becomes an emergency, so they will find a corner and go. I have 2 dogs and one of them has gone in the house very few times. That one will readily go outside too. The other one is a busy body, always on and the one that will forget to go. David

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    Re: Dog Pooping out of revenge?

    After reading your whole post, I agree with everyone saying that a dog won't generally poop out of revenge. My first thought was that perhaps she was allowed to do her business in the house she was raised in. My second thought was (yes I know this will sound gross but it works) scoop up her poop, tell her "bad girl" and take it to where you want her to poop, taking her with you. Set in on the ground, let her smell it, and tell her "good girl" and pet her head. This does two things, if you're good with the inflection of good girl vs bad girl, she begins to get a clue that you are unhappy when you find poop inside, but happy when its outside. Also it begins to make sure that the yard is the place with the right smells for a poop. Many times new dogs in new yards get confused because the only toilet smells are inside, most dogs will graze a bit before they poo or pee, they do this because somehow it helps stimulate the need to go. So you need to get the smells outside instead of inside. For peeing, it might be a good idea for you and/or your husband to pee outside for a couple of days, (or pee in a cup and pour it outside) because dogs feel an irresistible urge to pee on top of another beings pee.

    Hope this helps.

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    Senior Member borzoimom's Avatar
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    Re: Dog Pooping out of revenge?

    I don't mean too, but I am giggling a little on this thread. Femka will retaliate if she sees me leave the house with another dog. She will go find the dog bowl of the dog I took, and even if its just one little piece, she will poop infront of that bowl. Even if she just went outside or not even remotely time for her to have to go. Its obviously like retaliation like " well poop on you..". lol. If I have to leave the house with a dog, I put her in a room when I take which ever dog it is in the van. I can then let her loose again in the house. I have to keep this pattern..
    Its funny that she only does it if she sees the other dog ( or dogs) get in the van. She doesnt do it if we just leave for a walk or training one of the others. She will just watch us out the window. But God forbid- I get in the van " with that other dog..".. If she doesnt see this, she will be fine no matter how long I am gone..

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    Re: Dog Pooping out of revenge?

    I give half of her food in the morning and half of her food in the evening. This is what the vet told us to do so we never left food out for her. This is our first dog so we were not sure how dogs are fed. My friend feeds her dog like this but my sister leaves food for her dog all day and the dog just eats what she wants and leaves the rest. The dog trainer said he did not like feeding her on a schedule but it does work great with potty training. My husband and I thought it best to follow the vet but I would appreciate any advise from this forum.

    Last night she wouldn't go for me at all. We went outside at 8 and then again at 10 and I crated her everytime. I think she may have went pee at 10 it was dark and I couldn't see. I kept saying go potty. So I crated her for the night. I got up with her at 5am and we went out side - normally I would feed her first. She went right to her pee spot I said go potty and she pooped. I gave her lots of love and good girl and a treat and then gave her breakfast. I came back in to go back to bed and I didn't crate her so I hope we are on a good track right now. She always pooped outside it was just on the patio and not in the yard. Althought this morning she pooped in her pee spot it was in the rocks, it is unusual for a dog to poop on hard surfaces (rocks, concrete) vs. grass and yard? She also did a funny thing when she was so excited this morning, she pulled all of her bedding out of her crate and threw it downstairs. This has never happened before, she peed yesterday but I washed in hot water in the washing machine - do you think pee scent is still there? Maybe I should use the natures mircle on it.

    My husband is on a business trip right now, and she always goes for him and minds him etc. He must be her pack leader. We were thinking that the dog needs to listen to me so we were wondering if I should be doing her routine with her instead of my husband so if and when he goes out of town then we won't go through this when he leaves?
    She is not a good walker on a leash, she drags me and wants to get to other dogs. I have a fear of other dogs especially big dogs so this causes me a lot of anxiety but I will try walking her in the yard. This is one of the things the trainer is going to work with me on.

    Thank you for all of your help and advise. It is appreciated so much. I will keep you posted as to how the day goes and if we get more successful poops.

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    Senior Member borzoimom's Avatar
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    Re: Dog Pooping out of revenge?

    Having this time with you, you mark my words- this will give her the time to bond with you as the caretaker etc.. We have had this happen several times. A dog comes in, leaning towards my husband, but I- as the " cheif hash slinger" the " caretaker" the cookie giver- become the one the dog bonds too.. Give it time.

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    Senior Member PeppersPop's Avatar
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    Re: Dog Pooping out of revenge?

    Using dog's own waste to designate a bathroom area is a great idea.

    Pepper has chronic diarrhea and doesn't have much control over it when its bad. After several accidents in the house, I got tired of cleaning it up and bought wee-wee pads. I used one of the wee-wee pads to wipe up a very tiny amount of poop, got the floor cleaned up, and then left the dirty wee-wee pad in the place where he'd just had is accident. He has not had any accidents on the floor since.

    You don't have to use your own pee if you don't want to. You can collect some of hers using a wee-wee pad, newspaper, piece of cloth, leaves, dry grass, etc. It does not have to be something absorbent, but it helps. Take her outside to go to the bathroom and immediately after she pees, put your "material" on top of where she peed and step on for a couple of seconds. Dogs have a much stronger sense of smell than us, so you would most likely get enough pee on the surface of your "material" even if none is absorbed. This will draw up the urine and then you leave your sponge where you want to dog to go.

    I'm not sure that this type of training will be helpful as it sounds like your dog already knows where to go.

    Regards,
    Sid

    Quote Originally Posted by Lovin'Dawgs View Post
    After reading your whole post, I agree with everyone saying that a dog won't generally poop out of revenge. My first thought was that perhaps she was allowed to do her business in the house she was raised in. My second thought was (yes I know this will sound gross but it works) scoop up her poop, tell her "bad girl" and take it to where you want her to poop, taking her with you. Set in on the ground, let her smell it, and tell her "good girl" and pet her head. This does two things, if you're good with the inflection of good girl vs bad girl, she begins to get a clue that you are unhappy when you find poop inside, but happy when its outside. Also it begins to make sure that the yard is the place with the right smells for a poop. Many times new dogs in new yards get confused because the only toilet smells are inside, most dogs will graze a bit before they poo or pee, they do this because somehow it helps stimulate the need to go. So you need to get the smells outside instead of inside. For peeing, it might be a good idea for you and/or your husband to pee outside for a couple of days, (or pee in a cup and pour it outside) because dogs feel an irresistible urge to pee on top of another beings pee.

    Hope this helps.

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    Re: Dog Pooping out of revenge?

    Ok so we had another pooping accident on the porch. I took her out and she spent 20 minutes outside and didn't go once. I stood by the door and everyonce in awhile she would look to see if I was there. As long as I stood there she was fine. She did not go poop or pee at all. So about 10 minutes later she seemed like she wanted to go outside again, but I needed to change my son's diaper (he is sick with major diaper rash) so I let her out and shut the door, this is when she pooped on the porch again. So I am confused I took her to the spot, she pooped there this morning and I gave her lots of love and didn't kennel her. So I then picked up the poop and took it to her spot and I pulled her on the leash to it and said good doggy, I took her to the spot where I don't want her to poop and said bad doggy. So I am going to put her in her kennel but since she is an adult dog how often do I take her out? When I take her out on the leash how long do I stand before I give up? I want her to be able to go outside without me standing over her. I don't always have 20-30 minutes for her to go potty. I want to be able to just let her out the back door she does what she needs to do without me being with her. Should I take her out to the spot and then go back inside and leave her outside for awhile? I will probably get poop on the stoop but I thought I would reward her for no poop on the stoop and poop in the spot. Am I being unreasonable. Part of me is confused about doing this because she dosen't poop/pee in the house unless mad and dosen't poop on the stoop unless mad, she otherwise seems housetrained.

    Thanks for the help.

  20. #19
    Senior Member Durbkat's Avatar
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    Re: Dog Pooping out of revenge?

    Have you always repeatedly said "go potty" when you took her out? If so you will need to choose a new command as your only supposed to say it once. If you repeat it she will think the command is "go potty, go potty, go potty, go potty" and not "go potty". The only way you will be able to get her to go in a certain spot in the yard is to take her out on leash everytime and never let her out to go on her own as she will go on the porch as you saw. What I would do is once you got her on a schedule you will see when she needs to go and take her out around that time on leash to the spot and wait 10 min. If she doesn't go then put her in her crate and wait 5 min and try again. She will learn she doesn't get freedom till she goes potty.


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    Re: Dog Pooping out of revenge?

    I swear this dog is so stubborn. She has been in her crate all day. My daughter was on a school field trip today and got caught in a tornado and thankfully she was ok but Roxy was in her crate for several hours, while I was on the phone dealing with that. My husband is out of the country. I was saying go potty go potty so I only said it once this time. I took her on the leash and we sat there for 20 minutes. My husband called I went inside and left her outside and she pooped all over the porch. She was literally left outside on the porch for 10 minutes if that. I caught her in the act because I was watching to make sure, but I didn't catch her soon enough she was finishing up. So I came outside and said bad doggie, I took the poop over to the poop spot and said good doggie. I am not sure what to do, I have not seen her pee at all. I took her out several times, one time she didn't want to come back in and she threw up. I think she must be stressed out too.

    Maybe I am being impatient but nothing seems to be working.

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