3 months of diarrhea
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  1. #21
    Member Dillinger-63's Avatar
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    Re: 3 months of diarrhea

    Quote Originally Posted by echoica View Post
    sounds like an enzyme deficiency...see the link below for information

    http://www.provet.co.uk/health/diseases/git-epi.htm

    with everything you have tried, i don't think it would hurt to mention it to your vet and have the test done.
    Star was tested for this and everything came back fine. Just in case this was an issue my vet went ahead and gave me Forti Flora. We used it and there was no change at all and that he when he suggested plain yogurt, which we continue to do daily. We give her 1 tablespoon in the morning and then one at night. Also this morning her stool was firm again and the first little turd had a normal color to it. The rest of her BM was more of a mush and mustard type color. Like others who have and are dealing with this it is amazing how you follow your dog around hoping for a firm pOOP and when it happens you feel like a kid at Christmas. :-)
    My Avatar is in memory of my police K-9, Dillinger

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  3. #22
    Senior Member ioreks_mom's Avatar
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    Re: 3 months of diarrhea

    Quote Originally Posted by Dillinger-63 View Post
    Like others who have and are dealing with this it is amazing how you follow your dog around hoping for a firm pOOP and when it happens you feel like a kid at Christmas. :-)
    I know exactly what you mean! My dog, Iorek, had loose stool for the first year of his life. Not fun with a samoyed! He is fine now but I still watch him poop every time and if my husband is with him I always ask how his poopie was! We tried lots of different kibbles but the only thing that worked for us was switching to raw. It was amazing the difference. Over night he went from soft serve type poop to nice, firm, formed poopies!

    Also, my puppy has been having issues with liquid diarrhea the past 2 weeks and he was on metronidazole for this problem. He has been pooping good the past few days but I still cross my fingers every time he poops to make sure it is formed! Heehee!

    I really hope that you find an answer soon. I know what it is like to have a doggy with stomach issues. I don't know what Iorek is allergic to (if that is the issue) but he is having skin issues too so we are going to get allergy testing done soon. Have you had your dog tested for allergies? Did you try potatoes as a source of starch? Iorek does well with boiled hamburger and mashed potatoes. It really helps to firm things up with a little canned pumpkin mixed in. Good luck finding the issue and I really hope that Star starts feeling better soon.
    Last edited by ioreks_mom; 12-23-2009 at 07:15 AM.
    mindy and the fuzzbutts!

  4. #23
    Member Dillinger-63's Avatar
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    Re: 3 months of diarrhea

    Quote Originally Posted by ioreks_mom View Post
    I know exactly what you mean! My dog, Iorek, had loose stool for the first year of his life. Not fun with a samoyed! He is fine now but I still watch him poop every time and if my husband is with him I always ask how his poopie was! We tried lots of different kibbles but the only thing that worked for us was switching to raw. It was amazing the difference. Over night he went from soft serve type poop to nice, firm, formed poopies!

    Also, my puppy has been having issues with liquid diarrhea the past 2 weeks and he was on metronidazole for this problem. He has been pooping good the past few days but I still cross my fingers every time he poops to make sure it is formed! Heehee!

    I really hope that you find an answer soon. I know what it is like to have a doggy with stomach issues. I don't know what Iorek is allergic to (if that is the issue) but he is having skin issues too so we are going to get allergy testing done soon. Have you had your dog tested for allergies? Did you try potatoes as a source of starch? Iorek does well with boiled hamburger and mashed potatoes. It really helps to firm things up with a little canned pumpkin mixed in. Good luck finding the issue and I really hope that Star starts feeling better soon.
    I've seen a few posts know about adding pumpkin to their dogs diet. Is the regular pumpkin out of a can, a pill or what and what does it do?
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  5. #24
    Senior Member ioreks_mom's Avatar
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    Re: 3 months of diarrhea

    I get the E D Smith canned pumpkin. You have to make sure that you get just pumpkin not the pumpkin pie filling because that has spices in it. I give my dogs about 1-2 tbsp a day if they are having issues. They are 40 and 50 lbs. I would think that you could try 1/2 teaspoon and up it a little at a time until it is working.

    Pumpkin, as far as I know, adds bulk to the stool so it is not loose. It also works the other way too, if the dog is constipated it helps because it is fiber, the same way fiber will help us.

    The cans of pumpkin that I can find around here are huge and I can't finish it before it goes bad by giving the dogs a spoonful a day. It freezes pretty well but when it thaws it gets really watery. I plan to freeze it in an ice cube tray next time because then I can thaw a few at a time and it will be WAY less messy!
    mindy and the fuzzbutts!

  6. #25
    Member Dillinger-63's Avatar
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    Re: 3 months of diarrhea

    Great info, we will give that a try too after we finish the supplements the vet gave us.
    My Avatar is in memory of my police K-9, Dillinger

  7. #26
    Member Dillinger-63's Avatar
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    Re: 3 months of diarrhea

    Well we are back at it again, but now she is eating her pOOp. For about two weeks our Boston's stool started to firm up when we added brown rice and oatmeal to her kibble, (Taste of The Wild - salmon) then we noticed that she started eating her stool and within a few days she is back to squirting again. what makes it difficult to stop her from eating her stool is she is in a crate and the crate is inside a large wire kennel (inside our house) to give her room to move about if she wants too. So she will get out of her crate, pOOp on the paper inside of her "condo" we call it then turn around and eat it. I picked up some dog vitamins today because I read that it could be a vitamin deficiency and then I also pick up some stuff that is supposed to make her pOOp taste bad. I've always found that part interesting as if dog pOOP tastes good, YUCK! Anyway the saga continues with our Star dog.
    My Avatar is in memory of my police K-9, Dillinger

  8. #27
    Senior Member MoosMom's Avatar
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    Re: 3 months of diarrhea

    I think you should REALLY consider doing a RAW diet. It looks scary at first, like it would be a TON of work, but once you start it gets easier.
    Unless you are the lead dog, the scenery never changes.

  9. #28
    Senior Member ThoseWordsAtBest's Avatar
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    Re: 3 months of diarrhea

    I can't praise The Honest Kitchen's Perfect Form supplement enough for VERY sensitive bellies. Smalls had most of her intestine removed when she was a puppy due to a severly prolapsed rectum that got infected/gangrene. She gets GI upsets VERY easily and her belly is so sensitive it can turn into defecating blood and it's life threatening over night. We feed her primarily raw with Perfect Form. She hasn't had a stomach upset in over a year. Given it to all our foster pups with Giardia and they did not have runny stool the whole time.

  10. #29
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    Re: 3 months of diarrhea

    Quote Originally Posted by MoosMom View Post
    I think you should REALLY consider doing a RAW diet. It looks scary at first, like it would be a TON of work, but once you start it gets easier.
    It looks like that is what are about to do. I have to admit this has been one of the most frustrating things we have dealt with regarding dog ownership. When I talked to my wife about doing this her question was, "Is this something that you do forever, or just until she gets her stools back to normal?"
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  11. #30
    Senior Member MoosMom's Avatar
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    Re: 3 months of diarrhea

    Once you start you just want to naturally do it forever. It makes a huge difference. We will keep our dog on raw food as well as start our new dog on raw when we bring her home in about a year.

    I know if we put Yoshi back on kibble he would juts get the runs again and I just dont want to do that to him. The forum has TONS AND TONS of info on raw feeding in the food forum. I even try to get everyone I know to switch their dogs because it's been such a wonderful change for ours. GOOD LUCK
    Unless you are the lead dog, the scenery never changes.

  12. #31
    Senior Member philovance's Avatar
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    Re: 3 months of diarrhea

    I'm sorry to say that my previous dog, a rescued cocker named Dylan, finally succumbed to inflammatory bowel disease after struggling with it for almost two years. We guess that he was nine or ten at the time. Overnight he developed diarrhea that was never better no matter what we did. His diet had previously been 50% raw but nothing we did with diet made any difference. After the first couple of months his stool was completely liquid and explosive and I don't know how he managed not to go in the house. For the first year or so his appetite was pretty good but he lost weight dramatically. We initially thought the problem was giardia but he never tested positive. Metronidazole was helpful in stabilizing him in the beginning (and by stable I mean he had very soft stools but not liquid; once he got sick he never had a firm stool again).

    The only thing I would suggest, that I would have done differently, is to have an ultrasound and an endoscopy done now if you can afford it. I can't say it made any difference once we finally had it done but IBD cannot be diagnosed without those tests. However, truth be known, even a specialist will continue to recommend steroids and diet experiementation once a diagnosis is confirmed so I can't say it makes any difference for sure. You should probably rule out conditions like pancreatitis or cushing's which require different approaches from IBD.

    I wish I had a happy ending to share with you. It was one of the most heartbreaking experiences I've ever gone through. Finally at the end Dylan could not control his bowels and he must have been miserable for quite some time.

    I hope you have better luck.
    Last edited by philovance; 01-23-2010 at 03:38 PM.

  13. #32
    Senior Member w8ing4rain's Avatar
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    Re: 3 months of diarrhea

    I have found that with my dog brown rice makes things worse if she has diarrhea. White rice seems to work better in this situation.

  14. #33
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    Re: 3 months of diarrhea

    Quote Originally Posted by philovance View Post
    I'm sorry to say that my previous dog, a rescued cocker named Dylan, finally succumbed to inflammatory bowel disease after struggling with it for almost two years. We guess that he was nine or ten at the time. Overnight he developed diarrhea that was never better no matter what we did. His diet had previously been 50% raw but nothing we did with diet made any difference. After the first couple of months his stool was completely liquid and explosive and I don't know how he managed not to go in the house. For the first year or so his appetite was pretty good but he lost weight dramatically. We initially thought the problem was giardia but he never tested positive. Metronidazole was helpful in stabilizing him in the beginning (and by stable I mean he had very soft stools but not liquid; once he got sick he never had a firm stool again).

    The only thing I would suggest, that I would have done differently, is to have an ultrasound and an endoscopy done now if you can afford it. I can't say it made any difference once we finally had it done but IBD cannot be diagnosed without those tests. However, truth be known, even a specialist will continue to recommend steroids and diet experiementation once a diagnosis is confirmed so I can't say it makes any difference for sure. You should probably rule out conditions like pancreatitis or cushing's which require different approaches from IBD.

    I wish I had a happy ending to share with you. It was one of the most heartbreaking experiences I've ever gone through. Finally at the end Dylan could not control his bowels and he must have been miserable for quite some time.

    I hope you have better luck.
    Sorry to hear about your loss. Although we have not had and ultrasound or endoscopy the vet pretty much told us the same thing. Star does not have any other issues like like pancreatitis or cushing's as she was checked. The other night she was squirting pure water and was throwing up. I called the vet and they said no food for 24 hours and just very small amounts of water. After the 24 hours we fed her a very small amount of food and when she had a BM one little turd popped out. So we are feeding her very small amounts of food, rice, oatmeal and some easy to digest kibble. Her next BM, yep, it squirted right out of her again. She has lost so much weight that you can see her ribs. back bone etc and my fear is if we don't get this under control that she to will eventually succumb to it. I'm in touch with a local distributor of the prepared BARF diet to get some input from her. I'm also going to try and give Star one raw chicken wing to see if that does anything to help too. I'm not sure at this stage of the game if I should do a fast or slow change over to raw.
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  15. #34
    Senior Member philovance's Avatar
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    Re: 3 months of diarrhea

    One very important thing to be aware of as long as Star's movements are liquid: the most immediate danger is that the dog becomes dehydrated. Apart from the protein loss that leads to the weight loss, loss of fluids and electrolytes is *very* serious. For the last three months of Dylan's life we hydrated him ourselves every day. This consists of a sub-cutaneous drip with rx'd saline fluids. While he never got better, there was a very big difference in his energy on those days that he got his fluids and those days he didn't.

    He tolerated the needle under his skin very well. I don't think he felt it and started to feel better almost immediately. The fluid administration does create a weird "lump" at the site of injection but it goes away quickly as the fluids spread throughout the body. Your vet can tell you how to tell if Star is dehydrated and show you how to administer fluids. It's common for dogs and cats to get them if they have kidney disease.

    Should your vet recommend you start giving fluids at home you can buy them wholesale along with tube kits and needles from medical supply outlets online with a rx. If you go that route and pm me, I can tell you who we bought our supplies from.

    As for switching to a raw diet, the reason to switch slowly is to avoid diarrhea so I don't think you have anything to lose by going "cold turkey." I would love to hear that a raw diet made all the difference; it's generally healthier regardless.

    Unless the new diet makes a major difference in a week or two, I think you and your vet have to look at steroids again (we spent a lot of time and money on homeopathy to no avail). She may need a higher dose initially. There is a special steroid that does its thing in the gut without "poisoning" the entire system but I can't remember its name now. Your vet should know or I can look it up. We tried that first but it didn't work. It's more expensive than prednisone but I have a compounding veterinary pharmacist I use who has very reasonable prices for it. Again pm me if interested.

    If the vet wants to go to prednisone, pred is very cheap and you might as well buy it from your local Walmart, CVS, etc. It will be a lot less from them than the vet in all likelihood.

    I hope you get some weight on her and keep close watch on her hydration. And that you get lucky with a new diet and/or medication. It's a horrible condition.
    Last edited by philovance; 02-02-2010 at 04:57 PM.

  16. #35
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    Re: 3 months of diarrhea

    Quote Originally Posted by philovance View Post
    One very important thing to be aware of as long as Star's movements are liquid: the most immediate danger is that the dog becomes dehydrated. Apart from the protein loss that leads to the weight loss, loss of fluids and electrolytes is *very* serious. For the last three months of Dylan's life we hydrated him ourselves every day. This consists of a sub-cutaneous drip with rx'd saline fluids. While he never got better, there was a very big difference in his energy on those days that he got his fluids and those days he didn't.

    He tolerated the needle under his skin very well. I don't think he felt it and started to feel better almost immediately. The fluid administration does create a weird "lump" at the site of injection but it goes away quickly as the fluids spread throughout the body. Your vet can tell you how to tell if Star is dehydrated and show you how to administer fluids. It's common for dogs and cats to get them if they have kidney disease.

    Should your vet recommend you start giving fluids at home you can buy them wholesale along with tube kits and needles from medical supply outlets online with a rx. If you go that route and pm me, I can tell you who we bought our supplies from.

    As for switching to a raw diet, the reason to switch slowly is to avoid diarrhea so I don't think you have anything to lose by going "cold turkey." I would love to hear that a raw diet made all the difference; it's generally healthier regardless.

    Unless the new diet makes a major difference in a week or two, I think you and your vet have to look at steroids again (we spent a lot of time and money on homeopathy to no avail). She may need a higher dose initially. There is a special steroid that does its thing in the gut without "poisoning" the entire system but I can't remember its name now. Your vet should know or I can look it up. We tried that first but it didn't work. It's more expensive than prednisone but I have a compounding veterinary pharmacist I use who has very reasonable prices for it. Again pm me if interested.

    If the vet wants to go to prednisone, pred is very cheap and you might as well buy it from your local Walmart, CVS, etc. It will be a lot less from them than the vet in all likelihood.

    I hope you get some weight on her and keep close watch on her hydration. And that you get lucky with a new diet and/or medication. It's a horrible condition.
    Star is drinking water with no issues, providing she eats. I think the reason she throws up is because there is no food in her. I fed her tonight, then she drank and seems to be fine. She has the energy level of a puppy, and really only slows down when she is sleeping. I have some prednisone left from the last time the vet put her on it, but all that causes her to do is eat like a pig and poop all over the place. It also caused her to bloat and gas really bad. I'll ask my vet about the IV drip but I don't think right now that would be his recommendation since she is drinking water.

    And now a question for the BARF diet people. I purchased a pack of chicken wings tonight and I took a meat cleaver to them to cut them into small bits for Star. I was amazed that the bones splintered and were very sharp so I didn't fed them to her. Also I called about every grocery store in my area about grinding up wings and such and all of them said by law they cannot grind up any poultry due to health issues, so I'm open to suggestions. I could give her ground turkey or prepackaged ground chicken, but wouldn't that be missing the ground up bones that are needed?
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  17. #36
    Senior Member philovance's Avatar
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    Re: 3 months of diarrhea

    Please be aware that dehydration is altogether possible no matter how much water the animal appears to be drinking. For instance, pets with kidney disease will always drink more water in an attempt to regain their fluid balance. Take it from me, if the animal consistently passes liquid stool it will eventually become dehydrated no matter how much water it appears to drink.

    I would not cut up the wings but then again I don't think wings are the best raw meaty bones for dogs. If you have access to a butcher ask them if they can give you frames and breast bones from fileted birds. Both have a good meat to bone ratio since there is usually some meat left after the butcher prepares them. You're quite right; cutting the bones apart will create sharper shards than the tearing that your dog will do. Per nature, when they tear, the edges that result are more digestible.

    If you want to get her started you don't need bones at all for the time being. You can get freshly ground beef, turkey or chicken and add calcium at a minimum for balance. The easiest way to do this is a product from Wysong, Call of the Wild, which when added to ground meat as directed provides an appropriate amount of calcium to balance the phosphorus in the meat plus vitamins, minerals and pro-biotics. Before Dylan got sick and I was feeding him 50% raw he did very well with COW.

    Pls don't underestimate your dog's tendency to dehydration. Her entire metabolism is out of whack as long as the food is going right through her.

    BTW, the classic home tests for dehydration are somewhat tacky gums and "tenting" of the skin behind the neck. Cockers have a lot of skin there and it was easy to see it was "standing up" and not springing back in place.

    As for the steroids not working for you, Dylan had very similar symptoms to yours and very good care all the way through. Even with the specialist I liked, the march toward steroids was unavoidable. I will be curious to see if they suggest another form of medication. Thank you for keeping us up to date. I would love to see you successful.
    Last edited by philovance; 02-02-2010 at 06:47 PM.

  18. #37
    Member Dillinger-63's Avatar
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    Re: 3 months of diarrhea

    Ok, I will keep an eye on her. I dropped off another tool sample with my vet this morning so when they call with the results I'll talk to them about the dehydration too. I just placed an order with BARF and bought their chicken patties so according to their web site I should have it delivered by this Friday. Also when I gave her the chicken wing she really didn't have a clue what to do with it, even though she plays tug of war, so she does not have any problem with pulling and chewing stuff, I think this may be a bit new to her. Well, thanks for all of the input and suggestions, and we will just keep plugging along and hopefully when her chicken patties are delivered they will help.
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  19. #38
    Senior Member philovance's Avatar
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    Re: 3 months of diarrhea

    She's a lucky dog. The BARF premade food looks very good (you ordered from Billinghurst?) and if cost were no object I would try it myself. The dog I have now doesn't know what to do with a bone unless he drags it all over the house. Dylan chowed down on a newspaper and didn't budge until he was done. I think the patties will be a hit!

    It would be great if they found a not chronic diagnosis. Fingers crossed!

  20. #39
    Member Dillinger-63's Avatar
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    Re: 3 months of diarrhea

    It is coming out of Wisconsin according to the shipping map. I'm very glad that they are close to me, as I live in Springfield, Illinois, so it's a one day shipment. I'm hoping and praying that this will be it, because if not then I really don't think there is anything else we can do food wise that will work as we have pretty much tried everything. I just fed Star some white rice and and a small handful of her - Taste of The Wild Salmon. What will usually happen is she will bloat a bit then get gassy and by morning, if she does not poop in her box/crate she will have a BM in the morning that is a bit mushy, then by evening time it is like water. We have been dealing with this now for almost 5 months, so it has been very trying, frustrating, heartbreaking because one vet we had pretty much gave up on us and said, there is nothing to do but wait for the end. As I said in another post, we are no longer going to that vet.
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  21. #40
    Senior Member philovance's Avatar
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    Re: 3 months of diarrhea

    You are obviously very committed to helping your dog so at this point I would take her to a teaching hospital, understanding that it is very expensive. I had one vet tell me Dylan was seriously ill and I resented it but she was right.

    The alternative is keeping faith with your dog without curing her. And that's why I emphasize hydration.

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