Would you Zueter your male dog?
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    Senior Member luv mi pets's Avatar
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    Would you Zueter your male dog?

    So I was on computer and found this article. Now it seems promising since so many are now thinking of the pros and cons of neutering their dog. So I am going to ask you forum members of your opinions.
    Thursday, January 31, 2013




    ...or you could zeuter the dog, instead



    The dog was on his back, sedated on a table. I was not wearing a surgical cap or a sterile gown. I held the first testicle between two fingers, pushed the needle in, and injected a little less than a milliliter of a mixture of zinc gluconate and L-arginine. Then the second testicle. And now the dog was non-surgically castrated. In a few weeks, once he was rid of the sperm he had already made, he would be sterile for the rest of his life.



    This product, Zeuterin, is newly released in the US market, just starting to make its way into veterinary clinics. I was part of a one-day training at a low cost spay/neuter clinic which has partnered with the company as an early adopter. On the one hand: if we can avoid doing surgery on dogs, why wouldn't we? Isn't an injection better than cutting? On the other hand: if you have to sedate the dog for the procedure anyways, and surgical castration is so very quick and simple, what's the benefit of zeutering rather than surgically neutering them? And is the benefit to the dog (healthier) or to the human (faster and/or cheaper)?



    I'm considering a few different populations of dogs: owned dogs being brought to a clinic, shelter dogs being altered on site, and owned dogs being altered on an outpatient basis. The answers to the above questions will differ for each population.



    •Sedation versus anesthesia: Surgical castration of a dog requires full anesthesia. Zeutering requires only sedation, and in some calm dogs can be done without even that. A dog will recover more quickly from sedation than from anesthesia, so he'll be able to go home earlier in the day. (Important in a clinic and for outpatients; not important for most shelters.)

    •Time: You'd think that an injection would be faster than surgery, but it isn't clear that this is so. A trained high volume surgeon will perform a castration (a very simple surgery) in just a minute or two. The injection has to be given slowly and the needle has to be positioned precisely. The time difference may not be significant.

    •Cost: Zeuterin is expensive! It costs $10-25 to neuter a dog with this product, depending on the size of the dog. I don't think anyone really knows how this compares to surgical castration, which doesn't have clear costs per animal. How much is your surgical suite costing you, and how valuable is it to keep a dog out of it? How much does it cost to sterilize a pack of surgical instruments? For shelters where every penny is counted, the cost of the product will matter more than in a veterinary clinic where an owner may not mind a difference of $10 one way or the other.

    •Using technicians: Technicians can't perform surgery. That requires a veterinarian. But a technician can give an injection. The spay/neuter clinic where I learned to zeuter are currently only allowing vets to zeuter, but they expect to start using technicians in this role as they become more comfortable with the procedure. Saving the veterinarian's time is a big bonus. Vets are expensive!

    •Testosterone reduction: Surgically neutering a male dog reduces his testosterone level by 100%. Zeutering him reduces it by 50%. Which is better? Hard to say! We don't really know yet whether zeutering will reduce unwanted behaviors (roaming, peeing on things) the way neutering sometimes does. (But we tell people that really training is better for that sort of thing anyway.) And is it healthier for a dog to have all of its testosterone, or only half? Testosterone is a steroid which affects metabolism and various physiologic process in many ways. I'm guessing that it does some good things for dogs and some bad things, and only time and a lot of research will tell whether it's better to have 50% or 0% of normal levels.

    •Aesthetics: Zeutered dogs still have their testicles, although atrophied and therefore somewhat smaller in size. Good or bad? Opinions will differ on that one.

    •Complications: Surgical complications can include anesthetic death and bleeding, but complication rates for this simple surgery in healthy dogs are very low. Complications with zeutering include the development of ulcerations or even necrosis of the scrotum. These complications are also expected to be low when the procedure is done correctly, but again, it's too soon to know exactly how that will shake out.

    So is there a place for zeutering in veterinary medicine? I think there is, but it's not clear yet exactly what it will be. I'm not convinced that that place is in a shelter (though some shelter vets disagree with me). I'm also not convinced it's in a general practice veterinary clinic for the average owner, although I think some owners will prefer Zeuterin both for avoiding general anesthesia and for maintaining a higher testosterone level, and of course for keeping the dog's balls. The place I really see this product is for performing neutering outside of the veterinary clinic, for example, in low income areas of the US where the population has difficulty getting their animals to a veterinary clinic, either for lack of transportation or for lack of enough committment to follow through with an appointment for surgery. In other countries, trap-neuter-release programs may also find a great benefit to being able to do this procedure in the field.



    (Posted by a bleary DZ at the fabulous but overwhelming ScienceOnline 2013 unconference.)http://dogzombie.blogspot.com/search...&max-results=5

    Your thoughts
    Last edited by luv mi pets; 04-26-2013 at 09:11 PM. Reason: sorry forgot to post link
    I would try therapy but the couch was full!

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  3. #2
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    Re: Would you Zueter your male dog?

    would I? no, my reason for neutering is to eliminate testosterone, I want it gone and I want it gone young.

    do I think it has its place? absolutely!
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    Senior Member CptJack's Avatar
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    Re: Would you Zueter your male dog?

    Maybe. Thing is, I'm kind of the opposite. I want testosterone. If I wanted sterilization without influencing that, I'd just get a doggy vasectomy.

    Do I think it has uses? Sure.

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    Senior Member Flaming's Avatar
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    Re: Would you Zueter your male dog?

    Quote Originally Posted by CptJack View Post
    Maybe. Thing is, I'm kind of the opposite. I want testosterone. If I wanted sterilization without influencing that, I'd just get a doggy vasectomy.

    Do I think it has uses? Sure.
    same thoughts in my head, but you said it first.
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    Senior Member Emmett's Avatar
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    Re: Would you Zueter your male dog?

    Perhaps this could be a viable middle road for rescues? When I adopted Otis, I offered to pay out of pocket for a doggy vasectomy. My personal belief has always been that those hormones are really important for development and him being large made me even more determined to preserve that for him. The rescue looked into it and, citing the amount of vasectomy failure in human cases, vetoed the possibility. I was disappointed for him but had already fallen in love and went ahead with his neuter at 7 months. A decision I will always question based on longterm health problems he developed. Perhaps if I had been able to offer them a procedure (on my dime) that had a lower margin for failure, in that testes atrophy and sperm production actually ceases they may have gone for it. In my book, least 50% testosterone is better than 0%!

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    Senior Member BernerMax's Avatar
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    Re: Would you Zueter your male dog?

    Doesnt sound too appealing, injecting chemicals into the scrotum so the dog has dead testciles the rest of its life ( I rather prefer the Idea of getting his tubes tied)... And I would worry about cancer (prostrate) or them finding out that the chemicals have some sort of adverse reaction in the long term...

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    Senior Member luv mi pets's Avatar
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    Re: Would you Zueter your male dog?

    Quote Originally Posted by BernerMax View Post
    Doesnt sound too appealing, injecting chemicals into the scrotum so the dog has dead testciles the rest of its life ( I rather prefer the Idea of getting his tubes tied)... And I would worry about cancer (prostrate) or them finding out that the chemicals have some sort of adverse reaction in the long term...
    I know! I was reading the article and thinking the same thing. Then I thought of the male dog owners out there. The ones who cross their legs and get squeamish when the neutering topic comes up in a conversation. I can just imagine how many would faint when the procedure was explained. 'That a needle will be inserted', would be as far as a vet would get in that conversation.
    I would try therapy but the couch was full!

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    Senior Member Losech's Avatar
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    Re: Would you Zueter your male dog?

    No. I wouldn't neuter any dog of mine unless it was medically necessary and the only way to save his life. But a vasectomy to prevent unwanted breeding? Sure, it's what I recommend over a traditional neuter. But I do not know enough about this Zeuterin stuff to even consider it for my dogs. I want to be sure it's got zero negative side effects first before I would attempt it with one of my dogs, and that the particular male had a problem related to testosterone that would be helped by reducing (NOT eliminating!) it.

    Now, on the other side of the coin... It sounds like a fantastic idea for low-income people who do not want their male to breed but can't afford a vasectomy or neuter. Shelter dogs would benefit greatly from this, as would feral populations of dogs. IF it turns out to not negatively affect the dog's health. If it does, no, throw it in the trash.

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    Re: Would you Zueter your male dog?

    Well, hmm, I'm not sure. If it still requires sedation, costs the same or more as a regular neuter, and takes just as long, I don't really see any benefit to it :/. Maybe for guys who want their dog to keep his balls but don't have access to a vet who does doggie vasectomies? I wouldn't do it to my personal dog until a lot of other dogs have been the guinea pigs and I can see if it has any side effects.

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    Re: Would you Zueter your male dog?

    My issue with it is this: what about rescue/shelter dogs? It usually so easy to see if a male has been neutered, it might not be as easy with this procedure. Thus, potentially more cost to the rescue or shelter, for surgery that is basically unnecessary.

    Also, I agree with those who are nervous about the side effects. Let's learn a little more about it first.
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    Senior Member elrohwen's Avatar
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    Re: Would you Zueter your male dog?

    Quote Originally Posted by CptJack View Post
    Maybe. Thing is, I'm kind of the opposite. I want testosterone. If I wanted sterilization without influencing that, I'd just get a doggy vasectomy.

    Do I think it has uses? Sure.
    This. I would worry about side effects and long term effects of giving a drug. In that sense, a surgical procedure seems safer.

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    Senior Member Selah Cowgirl's Avatar
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    Re: Would you Zueter your male dog?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sighthounds4me View Post
    My issue with it is this: what about rescue/shelter dogs? It usually so easy to see if a male has been neutered, it might not be as easy with this procedure. Thus, potentially more cost to the rescue or shelter, for surgery that is basically unnecessary.

    Also, I agree with those who are nervous about the side effects. Let's learn a little more about it first.

    tattoos, just like with female animals.

    I totally would! This sounds like a great alternative to cutting out all the hormones in the dogs. It said it reduced testosterone by 50%, not 100% which is a great alternative to those of us who want to utilize the hormones to produce sounder dogs without having to be 100% on the ball all the time with a dog who is completely intact. I see a great future for sport and hunting dogs.
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    Senior Member agility collie mom's Avatar
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    Re: Would you Zueter your male dog?

    At this point no. Too new of a procedure. Remember when they came out with pro-heart? In the future possibly.
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    Senior Member LuvMyAngels's Avatar
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    Re: Would you Zueter your male dog?

    On Buster? Absolutely not! His vet has already confirmed my concern that, due to his health, he may be at a higher risk for infection from surgical neutering so using a product where some of the risks are ulcers or necrosis is probably not in his best interest.

    Future dogs? Maybe...though definitely not without sedation. What happens to the, now dead, testicles as the dog ages? Potential location for cancer? And then the dog requires a surgical neuter anyway. Infection? Right now its too new for these questions to be answered.

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    Senior Member Selah Cowgirl's Avatar
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    Re: Would you Zueter your male dog?

    Is the testicle dead? I did not read that in the artical. Yes it stops creating sperm, but not the half a dozen hormones that they are meant to.
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    Senior Member CoverTune's Avatar
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    Re: Would you Zueter your male dog?

    No, I never would. I'm not at all comfortable with the idea of injecting any kind of poison into my dogs body.


    "The pet-food industry tends to dismiss the evidence of tens of thousands of healthy dogs on raw diets as ‘anecdotal’, but I’d rather be another anecdote with a healthy dog than another clinical statistic sat in a waiting room."

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    Senior Member Selah Cowgirl's Avatar
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    Re: Would you Zueter your male dog?

    oy vey, I hope you don't give any oral medications either!
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    Senior Member CoverTune's Avatar
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    Re: Would you Zueter your male dog?

    Quote Originally Posted by Selah Cowgirl View Post
    oy vey, I hope you don't give any oral medications either!
    You mean me? The only oral meds my dogs get are natural/holistic now.


    "The pet-food industry tends to dismiss the evidence of tens of thousands of healthy dogs on raw diets as ‘anecdotal’, but I’d rather be another anecdote with a healthy dog than another clinical statistic sat in a waiting room."

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