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Crystals in urine

276K views 115 replies 64 participants last post by  briteday 
#1 ·
My vet has told me that my 1 1/2 yr old has crystals in her urine and wants me to buy dog food from them. Is that really going to help or do they just want more money? Also does anyone have a dog that leaks urine ? My vet put her on Proin, and he said IF this works she'll have to be on it for the rest of her life. I just hate the thought of having to give her this medication, so many side effects... :confused:
 
#2 ·
Urolithiasis is a disease caused by the presence and effects of uroliths (stones) or claculi or excessive amounts of crystals in the urinary tract. The disease is referred to by many names, including cystitis, urethritis, urinary calculi, bladder stones, or kidney stones. As in humans, these stones and crystals can form anywhere in the urinary tract of the dog, including the kidney, urethra, or most commonly, the bladder. These crystals or stones irritate the lining of the urinary tract, causing changes in the lining, blood in the urine, and often pain. In some cases the crystals or stones will block or partially block the flow or urine, making urination painful or impossible. Crystaluria denotes the presence of crystals in the urine. Crystals form when minerals bind together. The bound crystals are not as soluble as the unbound form and may result in mineral deposits, much like the deposits commonly found in a teapot or coffee maker. Special diets work by reducing the mineral building blocks or urinary stones in the urine. These diets affect the urine pH and increase urination to help flush the urinary tract. To completely dissolve the stones takes 4-16 weeks, depending on the size and number of stones present. I suggest you follow your vet's advice. The alternative would be surgery which is much more expensive and more invasive on the dogs part.
 
#3 · (Edited)
Crystals in urinary tract

Our newly acquired 4 yr old 45lb dog just returned from vet - with urinary tract crystals & is now on a 2-month diet of Hill's Prescription Diet s/d canned food. Our vet suggested that a large percentage of dogs within a 50 mile radius of us have this same problem. She believes the local water supply may be a major contributor. After moving here about 2 years ago, I noticed strange heavy deposits in the bird baths and in the outside water dish (all filled from tap water). I never had this where we used to live. You may try giving your pet only bottled water along with the prescribed food. Also - ask your vet if you can eventually switch to a diet of cooked rice with some cooked mixed vegetables (no onions or seasonings). Our other dog has been on a diet of rice and vegetables with a small amount of chicken or high quality lamb/rice dry food and is doing very well. We are hoping we can eventually switch our new dog with the urinary tract problem to the rice/vegetable diet. One last suggestion from a local vet was add cranberry juice to your pet's water and to the food - as much as the pet can tolerate. Check with your vet and follow their direction. Good luck!
 
#4 ·
My dog was just diagnosed today with having crystals and she has to go on expensive food from the vets place in which they are not trying to get you with money, they really are helping your dog. I know because I work at a animal hospital. I have to bring my dog back to get ex-ray to see if stones has developed and if so, then she has to have surgery to have them removed. But she has to go on the diet food for the rest of her life. Wish you the best and your pet.
 
#5 ·
Not every dog who has crystals needs to go on a prescription diet. My dog had struvite crystals with no symptoms. I got a second opinion when my vet said to put my dog on a prescription diet for the rest of his life. Here is a link you can read:
http://www.b-naturals.com/newsletter/bladder-stones-crystals/

If the vet I got a second opinion from said I had to a special food, this is one I was going to look into. A lot of the prescription foods have ingredients (like corn) that I don't want to feed my dog.

http://www.wysong.net/PDFs/struvatrol.pdf
 
#6 ·
I understand that not every dog needs to go on diet food but if a Vet tells us our dogs should or have to, then obviously our dogs are the ones. I know and trust my vet and I do what she tells me I should. I was saying the vet is not gonna lie to get money off a food bag. :)
 
#7 · (Edited)
It isn't that the vet is trying to get more money or not, it is often that some vets are becoming more versed in canine nutrition, and some are not. The ones who are not, often still use the Hills and Science diet foods as fixes. However, these foods often can mask other illnesses or problems, and are not really things any dog should be eating as they are full of corn, filler, and rarely any meat.

For crystals it depends what kind of crystals you have. If you have struvite crystals then you can help control it with food. You can also add supplements like Berry Balance to help or cranberry pills. Many dog owners control struvite crystals with either a raw diet, or a kibble diet. (Ill talk about struvite b/c they are the most common type, and calcium oxalate crystals cannot easily be controlled by diet except to avoid foods high in oxalate). Struvites form in alkaline urine, so to prevent you need to keep the pH of the urine more on the acidic side. You should choose a kibble accordingly--if you need help with that you can feel free to ask.

Some people also use Ester C (vitamin C), apple cider vinegar, and "tinkle tonic" to help. Often people buy pH strips so they can test the urine and make sure it is staying on the acidic side. Also, lots of fluids is important daily to keep the system flushed and moving. Some people also use a solution of water and apple cider vinegar to cleanse the pee area on the pup as well as often crystals often come with infections, like UTIs and bladder infections.

Basically, you don't need that Hills food, to be honest it is overpriced corn in a bag. And you can get a good kibble that will keep your urine acidic that is actually a healthy food. More and more vets are becoming interested in the newest stuff on nutrition, and less and less are recommending the HIlls or SD. I would suggest a kibble that will keep you acidic, lots of water (you can add it to the kibble if it helps them drink, or a tiny drop of low sodium meat broth to the water if they dont like to drink), Berry Balance (and the ACV if you like) and pH test strips. You can really manage it this way, i know TONS of dogs who have, and who have stayed off antibiotics and struvite free.

I know it is stressfull! Good luck!


KdTurngreen:
Are you only feeding rice and veggies? I assume you are also feeding all the dogs the lamb kibble as well, or the vet told you how to supplement a home cooked diet? Just rice and veggies (in case someone reading your post misunderstood) is not a complete diet for a dog, and is lacking important things like calcium and phosphorus to just name a few. Are you doing a home cooked diet with all the supplements?
 
#27 ·
My 17 month old rescue has BOTH kinds of crystals in her urine. I detest the prescription foods and have recently changed her to Verus (weight management, both of my dogs are on it - lamb is the protein base). I've looked through my holistic pet health books and I can't find anything on this diagnosis. I saw your reply that I can give her cranberry and some other things, but that was only for one type of crystal. Do you know of anything I can do for the other type?
 
#9 ·
I'm not familiar with Proin, but my Lhasa-poo is on a prescription diet after having surgery to remove a huge stone from his bladder. (This was two weeks after I adopted him, no less.) The diet has helped him immensely--no more straining to urinate, and he seems to enjoy the food.
 
#10 ·
Thracian, Im glad your pup is doing well, however if you ever find the eye staining, eye goop, or have any issues like dull coat, or large poops, and want to switch feel free to let me know and Id be happy to help. I just dislike those foods b/c if you look at the ingredients they usually have little or no meat, and are full of corn, and filler, and that is a high price for a bag of corn. Also, if you ran out of food for your dog, would you give him some chicken or open a can of corn? I found that some dogs do have amazing results on better foods, and some just are lucky and have great genes and do only slighty better on the outside. I did find smaller poops, no or less eye crusties and no staining, and for example, my Chi when I adopted him had a dull rough coarse coat, had huge dandruff, no belly hair/fur at all, and after 2-3 weeks on better food he was like a new dog. He has shiny soft fur/coat now, his dandruff is 100% gone, and all his belly hair/fur grew in! It was incredible. What I worry about most though, is the stuff on the inside that you can't see. I mean, with Sal, I could see outside results, but knowing that his health insidehis body is better, is what makes me most happy, and should result in less vet bills later on.

Anyway, Im glad you are doing well, and my point is just that you can still feed an excellent healthy tasty food, and treat crystals pretty easily with other methods! I hope it helps someone!
 
#11 ·
Hello, I hope you don't mind me asking this, but I was wondering what kind of food you started feeding your Chi that got such great results? Hearing you describe your dog sounds just like you are describing my little Chihuahua mix. He has large flaky dandruff, a dull, rough coat, very little belly hair, and was just diagnosed with crystals in his urine (and was of course recommended Science Diet by my vet.) I have tried about a dozen types of food for him with no positive results. Thanks so much; I really hope to hear from you about this. :)

-Melissa
 
#12 ·
HI Melissa,

Well, I fed Salvatore Wellness Core dog food. Wellness is a great company, and I found the Core line really has worked well for all our dogs, even fosters. However, there are LOTS of great foods out there. The SD won't help for the skin issues you are having, and really you dont need the SD for the crystals. Im assuming you have struvite crystals (if you dont know you should ask), and you can help your pup by choosing a food that keeps his urine acidic and adding things like berry balance, cranberry pills, and distilled water. I would consider the SD as an ultimate, very sad, last resort. I would suggest tryinig the Wellness Core, or other good foods (I can give you a list if you like). I would also suggest purchasing the berry balance, and considering some of the other tips I listed in my previous post about managing struvite crystals in urine. Not every food will work for every dog, but really, you just need to try a few and see. I would try the Wellness Core first, and if that doesnt help within a month or two (after transitioning slowly), then get back to me and I can help you find/pick another suitable food. I do have to check on the acidity of the Wellness Core, but I will do so and let you know. Good luck!!!
 
#77 ·
Hi Melissa:

I have been using Merrick Dog Food and From for my three dogs. My newest came with crystals in her urine and they have put her on Hills CD but as you know and everyone knows, Hills is loaded with corn and fillers. I want to try a different food after she gets off the Hills in a month and see what happens. Do you suggest that I use Wellness or is there another food with high acidity for her. I am going to check the acidity in the two that I use right now to see how their acidity ratio is. Please get back to me.
 
#14 ·
Well, Innova is more expensive than say grocery brands, and a puppy does eat a lot, however we should point out that as an adult dog, feeding quality foods such as Innova appears to be more expensive, but is actually not much more. I did the math, and to feed the Wellness Core instead of say, Beneful, it cost me $5-$7 more a month and I am feeding 1 larger Jack Russell, a doxie/rat terrier mix, a Chi mix, and a Chihuahua. The bag is more expensive, but it lasts a LOT longer b/c the calories are higher and it is more nutrient dense, and therefore you feed less quantity. Therefore when my neighbor is going back to buy a 2nd or 3rd bag of beneful, I am still feeding the first bag. Therefore, the initial price is more expensive but overall it is not much more expensive. And many companies do make smaller bags if you cannot swing the higher price up front for a larger bag. Also, if you email the companies many will send you a sample and coupons.
 
#15 ·
I just came back from my vet, and am quite upset. Lexi is 2 year old now and had begun peeing in the house - even right after I have walked her. I thought it was due to her breed mixture (cockapoo) and she was having behaviorial issues. She also pee's all night on her mat in her crate, and has been doing this for a while. Today, at her annual checkup, our vet did a urine check her urine and x-rayed her(there were lots of crystals). What actually causes this? She has been eating Innova for about a year, and only gets bottled water. Could it be from over feeding? I have bought a small bag of prescription Royal Canin SO, and Lexi will be on antibiotics for 2 weeks. If she needs to be on a special food for life, is there a good quality food that I can feed her and our Golden? He loves Innova, but has gained over 13 lbs since we switched them to it over a year ago.
 
#82 ·
Yes, this is often overlooked I've heard. A family friend's pup had issues with crystals. They're not sure it was caused by spring but i guess there's a chance. They always suspected it.
 
#17 ·
Both my dogs have had crystals in urine. Sassy really did, she had an UTI that needed to be treated. Max's urine sample got stale and formed crystals, a second sample spun inhouse showed no crystals.

There are a lot of different sorts of crystals. Unless you know which one is present you cannot treat the cause. Struvite crystals are phosphate based and usually caused by infection. When the infection is gone the unrine's pH will be normal and the crystals won't form. Oxalate crystals are formed due to a defect in the dog's metabolism and can be helped by eating foods low in oxalate [spinach is high for example] and drinking water low in mineral content. Then there are purine crystals and combination crystals.

It sounds like your dog has struvite crystals as you were sent home with antibiotics. Script food isn't important in treating this type of crystal. Treating the infection is. Take all the pills and go back for the follow up urine culture. Make sure she drinks plenty of water to keep the crystals flushed out. Sassy had to have two courses of antibiotics to get rid of the infection. We were lucky, it can take a long time to resolve this infection.

Have you read the article linked near the top of this thread to B-Naturals? Read that, good information.

If your dog is getting plump, why can you simply not feed him less?
 
#18 · (Edited)
Innova is a good food, however you have to realize a few things. It is a good food--that means it is nutritionally much more dense than other low quality foods like those in the grocery store. Hence, you should be feeding less quantity. It is also higher in calories, so if you are feeding your dog what you used to feed of lower quality stuff, Im not surprised he has gained weight. You should be adjusting their food amount by how they are looking, if they are gaining, you should reduce. If they are losing or thin, then add more. When you feel your golden (or any dog) look at them from above and see if they look like a dog should (you can ask your vet or google for photos), from the side there should be a chest with a waist line that comes up as you go back. When you feel their ribs from above (run your hand down the rib cage) you should be able to feel the ribs but with a thin layer of fat over it. If you cant feel the ribs they are probably overweight. If you feel unsure, talk to you vet about weight and ask what weight your dog should be. The vet can tell you easily if you are a good weight, overweight, or underweight. If your golden is not underweight, and is still gaining you should be feeding him less. You can reduce slowly, and his stomach will adjust. Ask you vet where a good weight for him is. As for your dog with struvite crystals, Innova is a fine food. However, lots of things can cause crystals, and some dogs are easily helped by foods, and some are not. Most need at least some supplements. I would tell you that spring water has minerals just like tap water, so that isnt helping. You should use DISTILLED water. You should also get your dog on Cranberry pulls, and Berry Balance (by Solid Gold, check online or at store) as it has cranberry, asorbic acid, and marshmellow root--which are all conducive to good urinary health. You could also consider some vitamin C. These things will help. A dose of apple cider vinegar as a supplement (like a teaspoon or a few large drops) can help too. Food along is not enough. That "prescription" food you are trying now will "work"--but only in the sense that it will mask the problem, not fix it. I suggest strongly staying on the Innova, and adding the Berry Balance, Cranberry pills, Vitamin C, apple cider vinegar, and Distilled water. Also make sure your dog is getting enough water--for example an 8 pound dog needs a cup of water a day! So make sure your dog is drinking enough and make sure you are taking her out often enough--you don't want her to have to "hold it". Good luck!

I also wanted to add, that Innova is great, I also use Wellness Core, and therefore you could use EVO, or Nature's Variety. THey would all work well.

A few more tips.
I would use the food, with the berry balance and 1 cranberry pill a day. I would add some water to the food (or buy the same brand canned to add more moisture and add that), to increase water intake. The more water they drink the better! I would add Apple Cider vinegar to their food or water, or use an eye dropper to put it in their mouth if they dislike the taste. I would also reduce quantity b/c overfeeding is never good, and high blood sugar never is a good thing! I would also add the Vitamin C. i would definitely not use the "prescription" foods as they mask the problem and symptoms instead of treating them. I would finish all antibiotics and start using distilled water. As things improve, you can always use the berry balance OR the cran pills. YOu can even try another supplement by Wysong later on. Some dogs use the Berry balance or cran pills for life. Some just need it for a while after to get their system back on track. It can't hurt to give a cranberry pill daily--I do so for mine as a preventative measure. The distilled water, you could stop using after a while if things go back to ok.

For anyone feeding prescription food, it is true you may appear cured--but please note, that these food don't cure the problem, so much as they just mask the problem and the symptoms so you falsely believe you are ok. Stop eating the food, and the symptoms will come right back. Its better to get off that junk, buy healthy food, supplement as stated, and treat the problem.

Also, if you wanted to get really wild, you could buy pH strips and test their urine daily for pH--you want their urine to be acidic. You could also wipe them after peeing with soap and water.....but that may be going too far for some!

here is the wysong link http://www.wysong.net/products/pH-dog-cat-supplement.php
 
#19 ·
Make sure your bottled water is Distilled, not Spring water. Unless it is distilled, it has lots of minerals.
I wish my vet had told me this. I just came back from the store with several gallons of distilled water.

It sounds like your dog has struvite crystals as you were sent home with antibiotics. Script food isn't important in treating this type of crystal. Treating the infection is. Take all the pills and go back for the follow up urine culture. Make sure she drinks plenty of water to keep the crystals flushed out. Sassy had to have two courses of antibiotics to get rid of the infection. We were lucky, it can take a long time to resolve this infection.
How do you find a vet who will do this? The two I've talked to suggested the diet would solve the problem. Any tips on finding the right vet for this condition?
 
#20 ·
Thank you so much for your responses. It has given me alot of "food for thought".

First thing I will do is switch to distilled water. I had never heard of crystals in urine - so I was kind of shocked to hear our dog has this. I have been researching since my post, and had found about the berry balance, and will begin to use that after we finish the round of antibiotics. I will switch to distilled water too. (that may even help the cockapoo's tear stains). And yes, I have been feeding them the same quantity of Innova as I had with the Eukanuba that we had switched from. He (the Golden) was pretty lean at 75 lbs, and now at 89, he is looking a bit wider. I will lower their portions, although I have put their food in a bin and don't have quanities to refer to. The Golden gets about 2 cups 2x daily, and the cockapoo gets about 2/3 cup 2x daily- and also tries to steal from her brother's bowl. I will lower the quantities, and exercise them more.

I called the pet shop that I get the Innova from, and he told me to switch them both over to the Innova Senior formula. The Golden is 6 and the cockapoo is only 2. Does putting them both on a Senior formula sound ok to you guys?

Thanks again for your advice - I look forward to your replies.
 
#21 ·
At 2, I would say he is at least an adult, so he *could* do the senior food, but I would still choose to feed regular. I would still feel the younger dog the regular food. 6 really isnt "that" old, and I dont know that I would go to a senior food yet, granted larger dogs live shorter lives. I would check the Innova website and see if they talk about the ages suggested for their foods. The Innova is much more nutritionally dense (and a zillion times better) than the Eukanuba. The Innova is meat based, whereas the Euk is corn based. I would lower the amount you are feeding slowly, and see how it goes. If they appear really hungry you could always give them a few spoonfuls of low salt (or at least rinsed) green beans which are low calorie and filling and are often recommended for dog diets. You can also lessen the amount of green beans over time too. Dog's stomachs are like accordians and will adjust over time to the smaller amount.

Good luck with the distilled water, you could even try cran pills while on the antibiotics although waiting is fine too. The distilled water, cran/berry balance, apple cider vinegar, and vitamin C are all good to try. And Cran pills are not very expensive to use forever as preventative.

Also, side note, but my dogs are small, and I was wondering how big the cockapoo was? For example, my Daisy is a larger JRT and weighs about 16-17 pounds. she gets 1/3 of a cup twice a day (so 2/3 of a cup total per day). For example, here are the calories for 3 foods (Innova and Evo are made by the same company). I feed the Wellness Core. But as you can see, they are similiar in calories for the most part.

Innova 504 kcal/cup (5.6 oz = 1 cup)
Evo 537 kcal/cup (4.40 oz = 1 cup)
Wellness Core Per cup 430 cal

You might want to consider switching from the Innova to the Evo, or if it is cheaper, the Wellness Core as there is some who think that a higher protein diet is better for the UTI prevention. You can also try the canned for extra moisture. Make sure you are getting LOTS of water! (higher protein is great, but the regular is great too--its really just a preference thing, but it is another thing to try if you still have issues).

As far as finding a vet who is knowledgeable about canine nutrition, sadly, it is a slow thing with vets--some have come around and are becoming very knowledgeable about foods and nutrition, but many have not. I would call around vets to ask what foods they recommend, and what they sell. If they sell lots of Science diet or Hills, and recommend Euk or Grocery brands--well thats the kind of vet you already have. If they say oh we sell Innova, or Wellness or Evo, or something like that, you can bet they are more forward thinking. Also, if they are ok with a raw diet, it shows they have a good deal of nutritional training. So those are good questions to ask. (although with raw, some vets are still wary--not b/c of the diet--but b/c many pet owners think throwing down some raw meat is what raw is about--and it is actually a specific and measured diet of meat, organs, and bone and supplements, and if people dont know what they are doing they can have a mal nourished dog. So just keep that in mind.
 
#22 ·
Most Struvite Crystals Caused By UTIs

Bailey our second Leonberger was misdiagnosed with struvite crystals caused by a higher than normal urine pH. A urinalysis was performed and showed a higher than normal pH and struvite crystals. The vet was a newer one at the practice we've used for a long time. As a precaution, she gave Bailey a course of antibiotics. The vet didn't give anything for the high urine pH.

After Bailey started urinating the same or worse than when he came home, every fifteen minutes to every hour, I requested another vet. The second vet diagnosed him with a condition found in some breeds where they have a higher than normal urine pH. This causes struvite crystals to form. She assumed that Bailey must have this because her dog has it.

Bailey was started on the treatment and we noticed a little improvement after a couple of days. Bailey could wait up to two hours most days.

Then I started reading online about struvite crystals. One site in particular was helpful, the Merck Vet Manual. It said that most of the time when there's a higher than normal urine pH and struvite crystals it's caused by an infection. Sometimes the infection can be subclinical and not show in a urinalysis.

I called the vet back and requested a second urinalysis. This time it showed a moderate amount of bacteria. I also said that I'd like to see Bailey stay on the antibiotics for at least three weeks (as per another article I found on the internet written by two tech vets). She agreed to do that. She also said that it's very possible Bailey had a subclinical urinary tract infection when the urinalysis showed no bacteria present.

After three weeks on antibiotics Bailey is urinating about every five hours. He'll have another urinalysis this week to make sure the infection is completely gone.

It's been a frustrating time for both Bailey and us. Despite his urinary problems during the last five months we've trained and socialized him. Hands down he's the friendliest dog at the dog park.

I remember the first vet telling us our puppy was manipulating us. I was shocked that she'd believed that a four to six month old puppy was capable of that. Yes Leonbergers are very intelligent and can problem solve. But manipulation?

There was a mixed signal though. We learned that Bailey enjoyed lying on the front porch to cool off. We assumed he wanted to go out to relieve himself. Once we got that figured out and on the proper medication, our BaileyBerger started urinating more like a normal nine month old puppy. Now we can finally begin his housebreaking training.
 
#23 ·
Hi everyone,

I am new to the forum, and quite interested in your discussion. My husband and I have a 3 year old lab and a 4 year old lhasapoo. Our lab (Koen) eats the Euk lab food, and the lhasapoo (Star) eats nutro sensitive skin. We originally wanted to put Koen on Innova, but after 4 months of upset stomachs and serious diarrhea, we decided it was just to rich for his system. We also just found out that Star has crystals in her urine, and were, like others, instructed to feed her a Hills prescription food along with the antibiotics.

Any thoughts on the Nutro food? I want our pups to eat a high quality food, but Koen didn't do well on the innova, so maybe there's another option - i know several others have been mentioned here. Are they as rich as the innova? We also considered Solid Gold brand (might have the name wrong).

Thanks for all the knowledge everyone here shares :)!

Christa
 
#24 ·
Hi Christa!

Ok, first off, Nutro is a terrible food. Eukanuba is bad just b/c it is a bag of corn and fillers and chemicals, but Nutro takes the cake. They have had many issues, and recently had problems b/c the level of the euthanasia drug (used for shelter dogs and cats) was too high in there food. Yes, it is legal to use euthanized dogs and cats in dog food. Go figure. Many dogs have become ill with Nutro, and I wouldnt trust them for one second.

That being said, Innova is not a rich food. Many people get confused as to what rich means. Innova is a food based on meat, and species appropriate diet. However, changing to a new food can give many dogs diahhrea and upset tummies, and some are more sensitive than others. You should always transition your foods, (adding more of the new and less of the old slowly) and for some dogs, this can be done in a week, some need a month. Solid Gold makes a supplement to help with this, if you have big problems. Now imagine, if you ate corn exclusively for life and suddenly ate meat every meal--your tummy might not be so happy for a while too. So, you can try the Innova again if you want, but if youwould rather there are many other foods out there that might work as well if not better.

I would suggest Wellness, or Wellness Core. Both are excellent foods. Solid Gold is also a good food. Being a large breed, you should just check the levels of calcium on the bag to make sure it is less than 1.5. So, I would suggest either of those (or the Innova). Evo is also an excellent food as is Nature's Variety (make sure it is Natures variety as many have similiar names). I would transition very slowly and use the Solid gold powder if your dog is very sensitive. You can also add pure canned pumpkin (not pie filling!) a spoonful or two to the food or separate--as it works like pepto for dogs and they usually like the taste.

As for your dog with crystals, I would feed both dogs the same food. So try the Wellness Core (my first suggestion) and if they do well on it, good. if not, you could always just try the Wellness Core for your dog with the crystals (or innova) and try the others out for your dog with the sensitive tummy. I would read my previous posts about Berry balance, cranberry pills, vitamin C, distilled water, test strips (if you want to go that far), and how those prescription diets just mask the symptoms. I would rather have a healthy dog, than a dog with its symptoms just covered up.

Also how much are you feeding the lab? Overfeeding is a natural cause for diahhrea. You would be feeding the lab LESS of the Innova than you did of the Euk or Nutro. Check and compare the calories....you are probably definitely over feeding the Lab with the Innova.

good luck!
 
#103 ·
Hi Christa!

Ok, first off, Nutro is a terrible food. Eukanuba is bad just b/c it is a bag of corn and fillers and chemicals, but Nutro takes the cake. They have had many issues, and recently had problems b/c the level of the euthanasia drug (used for shelter dogs and cats) was too high in there food. Yes, it is legal to use euthanized dogs and cats in dog food. Go figure. Many dogs have become ill with Nutro, and I wouldnt trust them for one second.

That being said, Innova is not a rich food. Many people get confused as to what rich means. Innova is a food based on meat, and species appropriate diet. However, changing to a new food can give many dogs diahhrea and upset tummies, and some are more sensitive than others. You should always transition your foods, (adding more of the new and less of the old slowly) and for some dogs, this can be done in a week, some need a month. Solid Gold makes a supplement to help with this, if you have big problems. Now imagine, if you ate corn exclusively for life and suddenly ate meat every meal--your tummy might not be so happy for a while too. So, you can try the Innova again if you want, but if youwould rather there are many other foods out there that might work as well if not better.

I would suggest Wellness, or Wellness Core. Both are excellent foods. Solid Gold is also a good food. Being a large breed, you should just check the levels of calcium on the bag to make sure it is less than 1.5. So, I would suggest either of those (or the Innova). Evo is also an excellent food as is Nature's Variety (make sure it is Natures variety as many have similiar names). I would transition very slowly and use the Solid gold powder if your dog is very sensitive. You can also add pure canned pumpkin (not pie filling!) a spoonful or two to the food or separate--as it works like pepto for dogs and they usually like the taste.

As for your dog with crystals, I would feed both dogs the same food. So try the Wellness Core (my first suggestion) and if they do well on it, good. if not, you could always just try the Wellness Core for your dog with the crystals (or innova) and try the others out for your dog with the sensitive tummy. I would read my previous posts about Berry balance, cranberry pills, vitamin C, distilled water, test strips (if you want to go that far), and how those prescription diets just mask the symptoms. I would rather have a healthy dog, than a dog with its symptoms just covered up.


good luck!

Hi!
I have a 5 year old pit bull that was just diagnosed with crystals in her urine (with a basic pH of 9) after being treated with a mild antibiotic for skin and urinary problems. I was sent home with another round of antibiotics and Hills Prescription Diet food for urinary problems. Of course, I got home and immediately googled what causes crystals and how to treat it when I stumbled upon these posts.
I am very hesitant to start her on the Hill's after reading what has been said and wondering what I should do. I looked into the Wellness food and am impressed just by what is on the website. I'm wondering if I should just start the transition to the Wellness food or follow what the vet has said to do. She will be going back for another urine test in 10 days to see if there is any improvement. She also has a history of uncontrolled urinating, which I was told could be due to a complication when she was fixed. I was sent home with tablets to give her basically forever.
I have also been feeding her Natural Choice by Nutro which now I want to just throw away immediately based on the things being said. I also have a 6 year old boxer, and I feed them the same food daily.

Basically, what I am asking, is if I should go to PetsMart now and buy the Wellness food and start transitioning both dogs or not? The health of my pups is my main concern and finding a way for Nala, my pitbull, to get rid of the crystals in her urine. I have AZO cranberry tablets that I use, should I give her on of those a day? Any information/advice would help and be greatly appreciated!!

Thanks so much!
 
#25 ·
Elenajas,

Thank you so much for your detailed reply! We actually just got the final urinalysis results back, and it turns out that Star (the lhasapoo) does not have crystals in her urine, so the vet thinks she just has bladder stones and a bad UTI. She has been doing very well on the Nutro food thus far - it cleared her skin problems right up - but I have no interest in supporting a company with the practices you described. I do plan on switching both of our dogs to a better diet - either the Innova, or one of the others you mentioned. I thought only the grocery brands did stuff like that :eek:!

When we originally put Koen on the Innova, we switched him over very slowly, mixing his old food ( I think it was science diet) in at a decreasing ratio for over a month, but he just never got used to the Innova. He was on it for at least 4 months, and when we switched him from that to the Euk, the diarrhea cleared up immediately. I'm not sure what the issue was with it. I know it was not an overfeeding issue, as we were feeding the amount directed, and he is by nature a picky eater, often leaving some food uneaten (definitely NOT the typical lab :) ).

Thanks again for your thoughts!

Christa
 
#26 ·
Christa,

Im glad to hear Star doesn't have crystals. However, if Star does have problems clearing up the UTI and gets reoccuring ones, the same stuff can be used to prevent and help clear utis. Even people take cranberry pills etc to help with urinary tract health and to prevent UTIs. So you could do the berry balance, or cran pills if you have issues with it later on or they come back (or have a hard time clearing up). Some dogs, and people are more susceptible to UTIs. Sometimes things like Diabetes can be an underlying disease, but that is not always the case.

As for the lab, well it could also just be say and allergy or food intolerance to some ingredient in the Innova that your lab's tummy just didnt like. Think about people who are lactose intolerant for example and how their system causes chronic diahrrea etc for them when they eat something milk related. I would try other brands like the Wellness Core, Wellness, or Solid Gold, Natures Variety, or Evo. Luckily you have a lot of great brands and formulas to choose from. Sometimes also, the bag is wrong--I mean it is a good guide--but every dog is different, and has different metabolisms etc. So, I would take more of the cue from how much your dog eats (since you say he leaves some) and how he is looking/feeling. Your vet can always help you assess over time if he is gaining/losing too much or is just right. I would forgo the Innova in that case for the lab, and try something else. In fact, some of those brands even have more unique protein sources. For example, maybe the food you fed before was Lamb based with only a little chicken, and the Innova was the chicken based food and he has a chicken intolerance or allergy. That could do it easily! So, I would try to find a food that has similiar protein sources to the food he was ok on (but it is junk) and so if it was lamb try to pick a new lamb food from the ones listed. Or if it was chicken, then pick a chicken one. Worst case you can always try some new and unique protein sources (some dogs have lots of allergies) and therefore unique proteins like turkey, red meat, rabbit, venison etc. are all good options. Lastly, if you find your lab is having issues with many foods, Wellness makes a very simple food for dogs with allergies and sensitive tummies. The Wellness Simple Solutions has like 3 ingredients, and is great to help figure out what you are allergic to (and what you can eat), and it is a simple food great for those with tummy issues. It comes in 2 flavors. Also California Naturals isa good allergy food as well. It may not be an allergy per se, but allergy foods are made more simply and with less ingredients and if you have a sensitive tummy it makes sense that that would help. You can also check the level of grain and compare it to the level of grain in the Innova. some dogs do better with grain inclusive foods (and with the same levels) and other dogs do better on grain free foods. The Evo and Wellness Core are grain free (I find my dogs do great on them), and the Innova and regular Wellness for example, are grain inclusive. So you have a lot of options.

Im with you on the Nutro food issues. I wouldnt support them (and just note they are having and FDA issue right now), and for the same reason i wouldnt support grocery brands, nor Merrick.

Good luck!
Also, try that Solid gold transition powder and the canned pure pumpkin--it is pepto for dogs and works for both diahhrea and constipation. :)
 
#83 ·
Im with you on the Nutro food issues. I wouldnt support them (and just note they are having and FDA issue right now), and for the same reason i wouldnt support grocery brands, nor Merrick.
elenajas;

What do you find wrong with Merricks? We have used the novel protein flavors of their canned food for our 7 dogs for many years with no food related health problems. All of our dogs are rescue dogs and came to us with health problems of one sort or another, some very serious. In the case of one who is highly allergic to the ingredients in most dog foods, Merricks was one of the things that helped us save her life. As such, I would really like to know what negative information your or anyone else on the forum has learned about Merricks in whatever detail you can provide. Thanks to everyone in advance for the information.

I also want to thank all the contributors to this particular thread about crystals in urine. I found a lot of very useful information in the cumulative posts that helped me in dealing with our vet about one of our dogs who recently had some anomalys in his urinalysis.

Greg

PS: We did once follow a vet's prescription to use Hill's S/D. Not only did the dog hate it, but it actually gave him IBD. We took him off it, but it still required months of Budesonide to get his stools to look even remotely okay. We recently took him off the Budesonide after more than a year, and his stools are mostly normal, but occasionally still very soft.
 
#28 ·
A dog can have struvite crystals and still be okay. When an infection is present, however, the crystals can stick to the bladder wall and stick to each other, making it painful for the dog and creating bladder stones.

To dissolve the crystals, you have to restrict certain minerals. Magnesium, phosphorus and protein must be restricted to less than 0.02%, 0.1% and 8% on a dry matter basis respectively. You're looking for a urine specific gravity of 1.020 and a ph of 5.9-6.1 to dissolve the crystals. To prevent, magnesium, phosphorus and protein should be restricted to 0.04 to 0.1 %, less than 0.6 % and less than 25%. The ph of urine should be 6.2 to 6.4. This is what I read in the book, 'Clinical Nutrition for Small Animals" at the animal hospital where I work. My dog has struvite cyrstals as well. The one vet wanted me to feed her Royal CAnin Urinary SO, another vet said Hill's C/D and yet another vet said I only needed to give her the antibiotics to eliminate the infection and hence the crystals. I wanted him to write me a prescription for Struvatrol, a food by Wysong that is for struvite crystals but he said wait until the antibiotics are done and the second urinalysis is done.

I feed premade raw patties and am currently adding a probiotic (because she is on antibiotics and will continue the probiotics for 2 weeks after), Wysong's Biotic PH- (which is supposed to acidify her urine) and I also put some water in her food to increase her water intake. It's only been a week since she was diagnosed so I'll see in another week what the results are. I refuse to feed Hill's S/D or the Urinary SO. The S/d is high in salt to encourage drinking and so does the SO but both have no meat. Why add salt if she migh have problems with her kidneys? The Wysong has meat in it (yes a novel idea) but also herbs that help 'clean out' the urinary tract (uva ursi, dandelion are two examples) - I just have to get a prescription = I don't know how expensive it is but I'm sure it's not cheap. But better than introducing newer problems from feeding the Hills or RC garbage. I'm thinking of going to a holistic vet for a second (actually a fourth) opinion but her fee is outrageous... hopefully, what I'm doing right now for her will rid the crystals. According to the 'Clinical Nutrition for Small Animals" book, it takes an average of 3.5 months to fully eliminate crystals....wonderful. It also depends on if the crystals were clumped or single. Single are easier to eliminate. Also, recurrence is probable if an infection with urease positive bacterium occurs in as little as 2 weeks after the first infection is cleared. Urease positive bacteria (E. coli, staphylococci) are bacteria which can digest urea, an enzyme which is produced as the body breaks down proteins.
 
#29 ·
I'm wondering about a water filter. We have a filtered water dispenser connected to the fridge and also are in a high mineral area with our regular water. Some mornings, the water from the regular faucet smells bad. I'm going to start using the fridge water for the dogs. i hate the thought of crystals or UTI's to deal with
 
#50 · (Edited)
previous post:
Our 5 year old Sheltie was licking herself a lot. After close inspection, we decided to bring her to the vet ( with a urine sample). She was diagnosed with UTI, her urine contained a lot of crystal oxalate, white blood cells but no blood cell at all. She was put on antibiotics and Xrays where taken. The vet recommend that the stone be removed surgically as his suspicion is crystal oxalate stone according to the urinalysis. He also put her on Royal Canin urinary S/O diet.
Our concern is: Our sheltie has no other signs or symptoms. She drinks, eat, plays, urinate normally.
Do we really need to put her through major surgery or should we do the diet, and wait and see?

Follow up
we had another set of xrays taken and the vet recommended the removal of the stone ( he tought he saw a stone)There were NO stones in her bladder, what they thought was a stone on the xrays was a mucosal fold, like hyperplasia Vet says that the crystal caused that from all the irritation they were causing. He irrigated her bladder really well, and flushed all the crystals out of there. He said we did the right thing going ahead with surgery (if it had been his dog, that's what he would have done) because he got to flush the bladder getting rid of the crystals, something that might have not been entirely possible with diet alone. Now that she's on the diet, this will prevent any future formation of stones or further crystals hopefully With this surgery, we probably prevented stones.
He said if we didn't do the surgery we would have spent much more money chasing after something that wasn't even there in the first place. Even if we had done the ultrasound, and they wouldn't have seen a stone that wasn't there, his recommendation would still have been exploratory surgery.

bottom line, we could have not done it and she would have been fine except that the crystals irritating her vulva would have taken much much longer to flush or not flush at all.
After all this.... did we do the right thing? we only followed our vets trusted advice. I'm not at all sure about all of this now.


we wondered about the water behing the cause of our dog's crystal oxalate too. We give her softened water. could that contribute to it?
the well water without the softner is too hard. Should we just give her bottled water?

RC is FULL of corn, soy and by products, all inferior ingredients, for what you pay you could be feeding your dog a MUCH better food.
I live in Ontario Canada
which better food would you recommend for crystal oxalate?
 
#30 ·
That is a good idea. There is a diet designed to eliminate oxalate crystals and stones and it uses distilled water to limit minerals taken in by the dog. Fuzzer Food. Restrict oxalate intake, use distilled water and use specific mineral supplements. Not hard for dog or human to handle.

Flipgirl, great information. Thanks. I do wonder about the protein though. I KNOW that my old girl with chronic kidney disease needs more high quality protein than a healthy adult dog but didn't know that about dogs with 'just' crystals.
 
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