Worms, meds, and herding dogs...
DogForums.com is the premier dog Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.
+ Reply to Thread
Results 1 to 14 of 14

Thread: Worms, meds, and herding dogs...

  1. #1
    Junior Member Nubster's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    West Virginia
    Posts
    12

    Worms, meds, and herding dogs...

    My pup has a pretty bad case hook worm. He has a new puppy appointment on Monday so he'll get treated then. He has only had the worms a few days as I have been check his poo daily since I got him a couple weeks ago. Nothing was visible until Friday. So anyways...I want to also start him on heartworm meds and see that some also prevent hook and round work. The thing I guess I have a question about it that one medication said it could cause a reaction in Collies and herding dogs. What is it about herding dogs that would make a medication single them out? My dog is a herding dog so I'll certainly be steering clear but I was just wondering.

    Here is the warning:

    "Collies or other herding breeds may have a reaction to ivermectin if given over the recommended heartworm prevention dose. If your dog is one of these breeds, and your veterinarian has prescribed Iverhart Plus, observe your pet for at least 8 hours after giving the medication for weakness, staggering, dilated pupils, trembling, drooling, or pressing the head against a wall. Contact your veterinarian immediately if you see these signs."

  2. Remove Advertisements
    DogForums.com
    Advertisements
     

  3. #2
    Senior Member sassafras's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Minnesota
    Posts
    8,579

    Re: Worms, meds, and herding dogs...

    The concern is that there is a mutation called MDR1 that prevents affected dogs from pumping certain drugs out of the brain. This mutation is more common in many herding breeds than in the general dog population. Although pretty much all drugs used for heart worm prevention are on the list of drugs of concern for MDR1, the toxicity is dose-dependant and the doses used for heart worm prevention are low enough that they shouldn't be toxic even for affected dogs.

    Ivermectin (Heartguard, Iverheart) has been singled out for some reason, probably because it is commonly used at much higher doses to treat other things such as mites - and at those higher doses it definitely can cause problems for affected dogs.

    Here's WSU's main page about MDR1, there's a lot of good information to be had there, and links with information on how to test your dog for the mutation if you want to as well as a list of affected breeds and drugs of concern.
    Last edited by sassafras; 11-12-2011 at 09:18 PM.

  4. #3
    Senior Member Charis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    1,713

    Re: Worms, meds, and herding dogs...

    Quote Originally Posted by sassafras View Post
    The concern is that there is a mutation called MDR1 that prevents affected dogs from pumping certain drugs out of the brain. This mutation is more common in many herding breeds than in the general dog population. Although pretty much all drugs used for heart worm prevention are on the list of drugs of concern for MDR1, the toxicity is dose-dependant and the doses used for heart worm prevention are low enough that they shouldn't be toxic even for affected dogs.

    Ivermectin (Heartguard, Iverheart) has been singled out for some reason, probably because it is commonly used at much higher doses to treat other things such as mites - and at those higher doses it definitely can cause problems for affected dogs.

    Here's WSU's main page about MDR1, there's a lot of good information to be had there, and links with information on how to test your dog for the mutation if you want to as well as a list of affected breeds and drugs of concern.
    This exactly.

    I had Sierra tested for the MDR1 gene to have the information for future medication needs. She has received heartworm meds for years with no ill effect because of the dosage (as sassafras said). Sierra is Normal/Normal (their website explains how to interpret results). The test is easy to perform at home and will give you the results you need to be able to determine drugs safe or not safe for your dog. I would suggest getting the test so you know exactly what your dog's mutation status is.

  5. #4
    Junior Member Nubster's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    West Virginia
    Posts
    12

    Re: Worms, meds, and herding dogs...

    Great info and thanks so much for clearing that up. I'll definitely look into getting the test for Bandit. The good news I guess is that cattle dogs (heelers) are not specifically named on the list of affected dogs but I would like to know for certain for future reference.

  6. #5
    Junior Member Nubster's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    West Virginia
    Posts
    12

    Re: Worms, meds, and herding dogs...

    Well...Bandit got a clean bill of health other than some hook and round worms. Dr. sent us home with 3 days worth of meds. I want to get some more and treat him monthly at least for a few months just to be sure we kick them. I asked about heartworm meds and my Dr. said not to worry about them until around April. I'll bring Bandit in for a blood test to make sure he is clean and then start the heartworm spring through fall according to him. Sound right? No need to treat 12 months a year?

  7. #6
    Senior Member Keechak's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Wisconsin USA
    Posts
    8,557

    Re: Worms, meds, and herding dogs...

    I have an MDR1 mutant dog and he gets Inteceptor heartworm treatment during the summer. I did the MDR1 test on him early this year and he is Mutant/Normal meaning one of his MDR1 genes is normal and the other one is mutated.

  8. #7
    Senior Member Charis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    1,713

    Re: Worms, meds, and herding dogs...

    Quote Originally Posted by Nubster View Post
    I want to get some more and treat him monthly at least for a few months just to be sure we kick them. I asked about heartworm meds and my Dr. said not to worry about them until around April. I'll bring Bandit in for a blood test to make sure he is clean and then start the heartworm spring through fall according to him. Sound right? No need to treat 12 months a year?
    Treating/preventing heartworm depends on where you live. In some places (cold very far north) dogs are never treated as heartworms are non-existent. I live in the southwest (Texas) and I treat year round as it can get cold here but it isn't guaranteed and it might not last.
    It really depends on your area, where you travel to (if you go somewhere heartworms are more prevalent/usually treated year round) and how abundant the heartworms are in your area to determine how many months of the year you treat.

  9. #8
    Senior Member InkedMarie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    New Hampshire
    Posts
    4,626

    Re: Worms, meds, and herding dogs...

    I'm late reading this but I have had shelties in the past. I personally erred on the side of caution and used Interceptor for heartworm.

  10. #9
    Senior Member sassafras's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Minnesota
    Posts
    8,579

    Re: Worms, meds, and herding dogs...

    I don't understand at all how Interceptor got a "safe" reputation - milbemycin, the active ingredient, is on the list of problem drugs for MDR1 along with Ivermectin. All heartworm preventative drugs are. *shrug*

  11. #10
    Senior Member Keechak's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Wisconsin USA
    Posts
    8,557

    Re: Worms, meds, and herding dogs...

    Quote Originally Posted by sassafras View Post
    I don't understand at all how Interceptor got a "safe" reputation - milbemycin, the active ingredient, is on the list of problem drugs for MDR1 along with Ivermectin. All heartworm preventative drugs are. *shrug*
    I never looked into what was in Interceptor, I just use it cause it's what my breeder has been using on her own dogs for generations.

  12. #11
    Senior Member InkedMarie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    New Hampshire
    Posts
    4,626

    Re: Worms, meds, and herding dogs...

    I honestly don't know what else is in Interceptor, as an ingredient other than milbemycin (sp). I only know what ever single sheltie person has told me and what I have read, that sheltie types should not have medications with Ivermectin. My vet doesn't see the hoopla, he says he's never had a problem. Maybe he hasn't but I wasn't willing to take the chance, I was told that Interceptor is safe and I felt I did the best for my shelties.

  13. #12
    Senior Member sassafras's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Minnesota
    Posts
    8,579

    Re: Worms, meds, and herding dogs...

    No, Marie, I'm not faulting YOU at all. What I don't understand is how two medications that are BOTH on the problem drug list* (ivermectin/Heartguard and milbemycin/Interceptor) have gotten such wildly different reputations for safety among herding dogs enthusiasts.


    *(although both safe at doses given for heartworm prevention)

  14. #13
    Senior Member InkedMarie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    New Hampshire
    Posts
    4,626

    Re: Worms, meds, and herding dogs...

    Quote Originally Posted by sassafras View Post
    No, Marie, I'm not faulting YOU at all. What I don't understand is how two medications that are BOTH on the problem drug list* (ivermectin/Heartguard and milbemycin/Interceptor) have gotten such wildly different reputations for safety among herding dogs enthusiasts.


    *(although both safe at doses given for heartworm prevention)
    Apparently I dont understand either but I have to give heartworm preventive so I'll just continue with what I was told/read/thought safe. Knock on wood, no issues with the shelties I've had.

  15. #14
    Senior Member sassafras's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Minnesota
    Posts
    8,579

    Re: Worms, meds, and herding dogs...

    Yea there's no reason to change just to change. I was just sort of thinking out loud, nothing personal towards you.

  16. Remove Advertisements
    DogForums.com
    Advertisements
     

+ Reply to Thread

Quick Reply Quick Reply

  • Decrease Size
    Increase Size
  • Remove Text Formatting
  • Insert Link Insert Image Insert Video
  • Wrap [QUOTE] tags around selected text

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
SEO by vBSEO 3.5.2 ©2010, Crawlability, Inc.