Best Dog Food
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Thread: Best Dog Food

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Honeyshuman View Post
    When I brought Ginger home from the shelter, they gave me Science Diet..I took it..and have been gradually weaning her off of it. (One of my girlfriend's has been denouncing SD to anyone who will hear, because it had a serious negative effect on her poms, that has been at least 15yrs!) Since I have seen her on it, she itches.
    Anyway, so I stopped at PetsSmart on the way home from the shelter and got her Nature's Recipe, the ingredients sound good, after listening to y'all:
    Chicken meal, ground rice, pearled barley...at least it lists no corn, soy or wheat.
    But I am researching where I can purchase Eagle Pack near me..and will check it out.
    Am I ok continuing with the Natures Recipe for the time being?
    Nancy, you'll be ok feeding Ginger Gaine's Burgers (do they still make those?) for the "time being." Your dog will be fine with most commercial dog foods and Nature's Recipe isn't going to do your dog any harm.

    Now, that said, is it the best thing to feed her? Here is a decent review of the Nature's Best that sounds closest to what you are feeding:

    http://www.dogfoodanalysis.com/dog_f...duct=191&cat=6

    You mentioned trying to find Eagle Pack locally.

    How big is your dog? You can order online and ordering the largest packages helps cut the cost of shipping down as a percentage of overall cost.

    http://www.petfooddirect.com/store/

    They have a wide variety of the Eagle Pack Products and you can analyze them at www.dogfoodanalysis.com

    Hope that helps.

    -Tom Steele
    www.myspace.com/dermotdog
    www.myspace.com/nordbert
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  3. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whitney View Post
    Has anyone heard of Nutrience dog food? I have looked through some of the posts to see if it was mentioned, and I just saw it at the pet store (I went to buy some Merrick doggie bones) but I was in a real rush and didn't get to look at the package. We have Eagle Pack brand and something else that starts with an "A" here... otherwise we are pretty limited. I looked at the Nutrience web site:

    http://www.nutrience.com/english-eu/dog/index.html

    And... I looked at one of there products, 8+ years for large/giant breeds. The first product is Maize. I don't really know what maize is to be exact, but isn't it kind of like a corn...? or a grain? I don't know much about dry kibble, other than to look for certain preservatives that are bad for people let alone dogs, and a bunch of other stuff. I feed Eagle Pack brand, currently... but was just curious about this other food.
    http://www.dogfoodanalysis.com/dog_f...duct=408&cat=6
    Last edited by tsteele93; 11-12-2006 at 11:16 AM.
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  4. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Debbie View Post
    How about the ingerdients in
    **** Van Patten's Natural Balance Ultra Premium Dog Food

    Chicken, Brown Rice, Duck, Lamb Meal, Oatmeal, Pearled Barley, Potatoes, Chicken Fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols-a source of Vitamin E, Citric Acid, and Rosemary Extract), Natural Flavor, Tomato Pomace, Canola Oil, Brewers Yeast, Lecithin, Choline Chloride, Carrots, Potassium Chloride, Whole Ground Flaxseed, Dried Kelp, Sodium Chloride, Parsley Flakes, Calcium Carbonate, Zinc Proteinate, Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc Sulfate, Vitamin E Supplement, Vitamin B-12 Supplements, Ascorbic Acid (vitamin C), Taurine, Yucca Schidigera Extract, L-Lysine, Manganese Sulfate, Niacin, Riboflavin Supplement (Vitamin B-2), Copper Proteinate, Copper Sulfate, d-Calcium Pantothenate, Vitamin A Acetate, Inositol, Folic Acid (Vitamin B, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (Vitamin B-6), Thiamin Mononitrate (Vitamin B-1), D-Activated Animal Sterol (source of Vitamin D-3), Biotin, Ethylene Diamine Dihydriodide (source of Iodine), Cobalt Sulfate, Vitamin K Supplement, Sodium Selenite.

    Or these
    **** Van Patten's Natural Balance Potato & Duck Formula

    Potatoes, duck, duck meal, canola oil (preserved with mixed tocopherols and citric acid), potato fiber, dl-methionine, l-lysine, sodium chloride, salmon oil, flaxseed oil, rosemary extract, natural flavor, yucca schidigera extract, potassium chloride, choline chloride, vitamin E supplement, ferrous sulfate, zinc proteinate, copper proteinate, potassium iodide, thiamine mononitrate, manganese proteinate, zinc sulfate, copper sulfate, ascorbic acid, vitamin A supplement, biotin, calcium pantothenate, manganese sulfate, sodium selenite, pyridoxine hydrochloride (vitamin B6), vitamin B12 supplement, menadione sodium bisulfite complex (source of vitamin K activity), riboflavin, vitamin D3 supplement, folic acid.

    Natural Balance Venison & Brown Rice Formula Dog Food
    Venison, whole grain brown rice, rice flour, venison meal, rice bran, canola oil (preserved with mixed tocopherols and citric acid), natural flavor, flaxseed oil, kelp meal, yucca schidigera extract, potassium chloride, sodium chloride, choline chloride, l-lysine, dl-methionine, dicalcium phosphate, dried parsley, rosemary extract, ascorbic acid (vitamin C), vitamin E supplement, taurine, ferrous sulfate, zinc proteinate, copper proteinate, potassium iodide, thiamine mononitrate, manganese proteinate, zinc sulfate, copper sulfate, vitamin A supplement, biotin supplement, calcium pantothenate, manganese sulfate, sodium selenite, pyridoxine hydrochloride (vitamin B6), vitamin B12 supplement, menadione sodium bisulfite complex (source of vitamin K activity), riboflavin, vitamin D3 supplement, folic acid.
    Don't like the menadione...

    http://www.dogfoodproject.com/index.php?page=menadione

    Otherwise, I think the **** Van Patten dog foods are good stuff.

    I've seen Innova mentioned.

    Artemis is also a great product.

    My dog likes both, but prefers the Innova and since they are both pretty good (although I think the Artemis reads better) I give him the Innova Puppy for now. We'll see what happens when we move to adult foods.

    (Note: LOL - the Dck Van Patten dog foods gets edited by the censorbot!)
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  5. #64
    Senior Member LabLady101's Avatar
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    I just want to point out that, while a good place to look up the ingredients list of different foods, the dogfoodanalysis website is just one person's opinion and should be taken as such. The true rating of a food is how well or how poorly your individual dog does on it- regardless of what others say about it. For example, in this person's opinion NutriSource only gets 2 "stars". However, my dogs (and many dogs actually) have done EXTREMELY well on this food and I am likely to give it 5 "stars" and for different reasons than this person or that- see what I mean? He/She also inaccurately states that wheat is the number one food allergy for dogs. (FYI, the top food allergies are soy and beef). Also, while Pro Plan is rated as a 1 "star" food by this person, put into practice it's likely the #1 food fed by Labrador professionals in both show and field- and trust me, it's not economical to feed a food that doesn't work no matter how many kickbacks someone might receive. Don't get me wrong, it's great to educate yourself a bit in nutrition in order to make an informed decision. But, I only take websites like this with a grain of salt.

    Just my 2c,
    Darcy
    Shadow- black pet Labrador Retriever male born 03/16/05
    Kinderwood's Daisy Mae Duke- yellow Hunt Test Labrador Retriever female born 08/26/05
    Bel Air Blue Chip of Kinderwood- chocolate Hunt Test Labrador Retriever female born 06/25/06
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  6. #65
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    Darcy,

    I tend to agree with you that the author of the dogfoodanalysis site puts too much emphasis on wheat allergies. From the information I have read, probably somewhere around 10% of dogs have food allergies. Even if a large portion of those were wheat-related, that would mean that well over 90% of dogs could tolerate wheat just fine.

    That said, I also think there are plenty of good reasons to try and find foods that don't have heavy amounts of corn and wheat in them since there are better options.

    I had a pom that lived 13+ years on JUNK. I have no idea if his health would have been better had I gotten him better food, or if he would have lived longer. Ignorance was bliss. Now I know a little more about dog food and figure, with so many options, why not try to find a premium food that my dog likes and does well with?

    I would note that the Nutrisource that is listed on his two star page also has menadione which is controversial.

    http://www.dogfoodproject.com/index.php?page=menadione

    I don't know what to tell you about ProPlan, but it has lots of reasons that it doesn't look great:

    http://www.dogfoodanalysis.com/dog_f...duct=242&cat=7

    "poultry by-product meal, corn gluten meal, beef tallow preserved with mixed-tocopherols (source of Vitamin E), whole grain corn, corn bran"

    There aren't a lot of good quality products in that list and those are items 4-9 on the ingredient list. So you can take it with a grain of salt, and I suspect dogs can handle lower quality ingredients than the human digestive tract, but compared to some of the ingredients in the 4-6 star foods on the site, that doesn't look very appealing.

    Again, I fed a Pom for ~13 years on junk. He was fine. I suspect that that dogs are like people when it comes to nutrition - genetics play a large role. You have people who eat horribly and live to an old age. You will have dogs who eat horribly and live to an old age. But if you are just trying to get that extra bit of nutrition as insurance, and you can afford the more expensive foods, I'd try and see if your dogs thrive on a better quality food.

    P.S. Here is a decent link to information about wheat allergies in dogs: http://www.wheat-free.org/wheat-allergy-dogs.html
    Last edited by tsteele93; 11-12-2006 at 06:42 PM.
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  7. #66
    Senior Member LabLady101's Avatar
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    By-products, for one, are just fine as a protein source (and are actually a very good, dense source of protein) when used correctly and only as a support protein- not as the main protein source. There is a lot of misinformation and misguided feelings about by-products out there. Many people do not like them because they are not things they would eat themselves, but are things that a dog would actually prefer over muscle meat given the choice. So, the stigma against these ingredients are purely personal.

    Also, the menadione issue is a controversial one, but I look at it this way: It is SO FAR down the ingredients list that the actual amount in the food is most likely just trivial- a "trace" some might call it. So, again this stigma is also personal.

    There is also nothing wrong with corn when it's used correctly. When I say "correctly", I mean it's used as a quality grain source and not the main ingredient. There is also an inaccurate stigma that corn is a high allergen when, in reality, there are actually very few accurately veternarian-diagnosed cases. I do not give any weight to those cases that are "home" diagnosed. These cases have not been thoroughly tested and it is even more likely that the real cause for the allergy is something else in the food.

    Also, most of those "better" quality foods in the 4-6 "star" range have multiple protein sources which is a HUGE red flag for me. I have heard about too many dogs who have been fed these types of foods that come down with protein source allergies. Where do you go when you have used up all your novel protein source options right away? You are definately stuck in a rut that you wouldn't have gotten into if you had stuck with a single protein source food- which is actually highly recommended by top breeders and nutritional veternarians. Protein sources are way bigger allergens than any wheat or corn product out there.

    This is why I take websites like that with a grain of salt. It is all purely opinion. Sure, those "better" foods look good on paper, but in reality there are a lot of dogs that do not do well on them. (And when I say "well" I mean not only in good health but also able to maintain the proper coat for their breed. You don't know how many times I have heard people say their Labrador is doing wonderful because their coat is so nice and shiney- which is VERY incorrect!) This website is just another that pushes these "better" foods on uninformed or inaccurately-informed individuals.

    I know of a well-respected Labrador breeder who had a wonderful girl that lived until the ripe old age of 16 (which is quite old for a Labrador). She feeds Pro Plan and that is all her girl was ever fed. Are you going to tell her that her girl would have lived longer if she had been fed something else? I'm not going to because, although she's just an acquaintence, I do know her well enough to know she would take high offense at such a remark. She knows what works best for her dogs and she's sticking with it- regardless of what others say about it.

    Did it ever occur to anyone that these so-called "better" foods are just catering to a fad? What happens in 5 years when something better comes along or the accurate information that is already out there finally comes to light? All of a sudden foods like Innova, Wellness, etc. will be labeled "crap" or "junk" as well. Then, everyone will be in a frenzy to switch again. As for me, and most top breeders and professionals, I'm going to stick with my tried and true "junk" food, thank you very much.

    Darcy

    P.S. I do not mean to be offensive to anyone in any way. I am just so tired of all the misinformation that is floating around about this or that ingredient or this or that food. Most of what the dogfoodanalysis site says is purely personal opinion. Also, the foods that are highly pushed there, have pitfalls that no one is willing to reveal.
    Last edited by LabLady101; 11-12-2006 at 09:05 PM.
    Shadow- black pet Labrador Retriever male born 03/16/05
    Kinderwood's Daisy Mae Duke- yellow Hunt Test Labrador Retriever female born 08/26/05
    Bel Air Blue Chip of Kinderwood- chocolate Hunt Test Labrador Retriever female born 06/25/06
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  8. #67
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    I don't think that anyone should get offended. To each their own, right? I always wondered if breeders fed their dogs different diets, or if say... a dog musher (hah, I hope that's the "term" used) used a special type of dry kibble or home made diets. In my opinion, dog food and what you feed your dogs, other pets, and even what you serve your family and friends for dinner could all be very controversial. Everything is controversial now a-days ._.;

    Since you mentioned that Lab story; I read in Canadian Geographic that plenty of people from the East Coast were living to be well over 100+ years old. Scientists wondered how this worked, seeing how the typical diet on the East Coast (in Canada) consisted of a lot of fried foods (the obesity % was also the highest in the Maritime provinces compared to other provinces within Canada, however, the % of people to reach the age of 100+ was higher in these provinces), but also... fish -- which we all know is good for our health. They really emphasized that the centenarians were happy, even in their old age and also mentioned that they had good lives despite not always eating a healthy balanced diet. I think that you definitely need a mix of a good diet, and a happy, stress free (or atleast for the most part) life... and that is what allows certain dogs, and people to live longer. Of course, I try to eat healthy, home made foods... and I try to do the same for my dogs, but maybe there is much more than diet that has to do with the health of our canine companions? Such as smoking, for example, and exercise.

    Anywho, just ranting now. It's bed time =D
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  9. #68
    Junior Member Momof2Pups's Avatar
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    Even if someone's pet did well on a food it does not change the cruddy ingredients it was made of.
    Foods that are crap are Pedigree, Purina, Ol Roy(probably the worst), Kibbles N Bits, Iams, Beneful, etc. etc.
    Here are the ingredients of some of the foods (and descriptions).

    http://www.naturapet.com/display.php?d=comp-wiz

    (Natura is home to excellent dog foods such as California Natural, Innova/Innova Evo.)

    Purina Dog Chow Complete Nutrition Formula-
    1. Ground Yellow Corn-Ground yellow corn is the entire corn kernel, ground or chopped.While the whole corn kernel is nutritious and follows Natura's philosophy of supplying whole grain nutrition, corn is considered to be highly allergenic.
    2. Poultry By-Product Meal-Poultry by-product meal consists of the ground, rendered, clean parts of the carcasses of slaughtered poultry, such as necks, feet, undeveloped eggs, and intestines -- exclusive of feathers except in such amounts as might occur unavoidably in good processing practices.This is a low-quality, inconsistent ingredient, with multiple organs used, constantly changing proportions, and questionable nutritional value. The origin can be any fowl (turkeys, ducks, geese, buzzards, etc.), instead of a single source, like chicken. Poultry by-product meal is much less expensive and less digestible than chicken meal, which Natura uses and which is considered the single-best source of protein.
    3. Animal Fat-Animal fat is obtained from the tissues of mammals and/or poultry in the commercial process of rendering or extracting.
    Animal fat is a byproduct of meat meal processing. The origin of the contributing animals is never known, and the resulting oil is very low in linoleic acid -- an essential fatty acid that is important for skin and coat health. Natura uses high quality chicken fat which has the highest levels of linoleic acid.
    4. Corn Gluten Meal-
    Corn gluten meal is the dried residue from corn after the removal of the larger part of the starch and germ, and the separation of the bran by the process employed in the wet milling manufacture of corn starch or syrup, or by enzymatic treatment of the endosperm. Corn gluten meal is a low ash source of protein and acts as a urine acidifier in HealthWise Cat 'N Kitten formula. Cats vs Dogs: While not the best quality source of protein, the use of corn gluten in small amounts offer preventive health benefits for cats. In addition, unlike dogs, cats do not usually show signs of allergic reactions to corn products. Natura does feel strongly, however, that there is no justification for the use of corn gluten in dog foods and considers it to be only a cheap protein filler when used in this manner.
    5. Brewer's Rice-Brewer's rice is the small milled fragments of rice kernels that have been separated from the larger kernels of milled rice.
    Brewer's rice is a lower quality rice product that is missing many of the nutrients found in ground rice and ground brown rice. (See the descriptions for those ingredients.) Natura uses only whole ingredients, with their nutrients still intact.
    6. Soybean Meal-Soybean meal is the product obtained by grinding the flakes which remain after removal of most of the oil from soybeans by a solvent or mechanical extraction process.
    Soybean meal is a poor quality protein filler. The "Crude Protein" analysis on pet food labels is only a measurement of the amount of nitrogen in a food -- not the quality of the protein. Because of this, pet food companies can use the cheaper by-products of human food production, such as soybean meal, to boost protein numbers.
    Meat is always the best source of quality protein. Meat protein is better absorbed and retained and is higher in essential amino acids like methionine, arginine, and taurine. Soybean meal has a biologic value less than 50% of that of chicken meal.
    7. Animal Digest-Animal digest is a material which results from chemical and/or enzymatic hydrolysis of clean and undecomposed animal tissue. The animal tissues used shall be exclusive of hair, horns, teeth, hooves and feathers, except in such trace amounts as might occur unavoidably in good factory practice and shall be suitable for animal feed. If it bears a name descriptive of its kind or flavor(s), it must correspond thereto.
    Animal digest is a cooked-down broth made from unspecified parts of unspecified animals. Any kind of animal can be included: goats, pigs, horses, rats, etc. The animals can be obtained from any source, so there is no control over quality or contamination. Natura uses only human grade, single-source meats. You will never find Animal Digest in any of our products.
    8. Calcium Carbonate-Calcium carbonate is a mineral that is true to its name which contains a minimum of 38% calcium.
    The calcium in bone provides structural integrity to the skeleton and also contributes to the maintenance of proper blood calcium levels through ongoing resorption and deposition. Circulating calcium has essential roles in nerve impulse transmission, muscle contraction, blood coagulation, the activation of certain enzyme systems, the maintenance of normal cell-membrane permeability and transport, and cardiac function.
    9. Salt-Salt is a natural mineral, necessary for life and good health.
    Most pet food ingredients contain enough sodium to meet a dog or cat's nutritional needs. The sodium in the Natura products comes only from the natural ingredients, with no added salt or sodium products as flavor enhancers.
    10. Lysine-Lysine is an amino acid released in the hydrolysis of many common proteins.
    The inclusion of meat proteins with cereal proteins in a pet food, coupled with properly controlled processing methods, ensures that the ration contains an adequate level of available lysine. In a completely cereal-based dog food, either supplemental lysine or a meat source of lysine must be added.
    11. Choline Chloride- Choline chloride is a member of the B-complex group of water-soluble vitamins (vitamin B-4).
    It is used as an animal feed additive, especially for poultry and swine, to increase growth, reduce mortality rate, increase feed efficiency, increase egg production, and improve meat quality. It is not a substitute for any other feed supplement and has no direct substitutes itself.

    Ol' Roy Premium Dog Food-
    1. Ground Yellow Corn-Ground yellow corn is the entire corn kernel, ground or chopped. While the whole corn kernel is nutritious and follows Natura's philosophy of supplying whole grain nutrition, corn is considered to be highly allergenic.
    2. Meat Meal/Meat & Bone Meal-Meat Meal or Meat & Bone Meal is the rendered product from mammal tissues, with or without bone, exclusive of any added blood, hair, hoof, horn, hide trimmings, manure, stomach and rumen contents except in such amounts as may occur unavoidably in good processing practices. Most people associate this ingredient with beef. The truth is that it can come from any mammal: pigs, goats, horses, rabbits, rendered animals from shelters, and dead animals found on roads. Meat meal can contain condemned parts and animals that are rejected for human consumption, including '4D' animals: dead, diseased, dying, or disabled. It can include pus, cancerous tissue, and decomposed (spoiled) tissue. This inexpensive ingredient found in many commercial pet foods cannot be considered part of a safe, healthy diet for pets.
    3. Ground Whole Wheat-Ground wheat is the entire wheat kernel, ground or chopped. Ground wheat is a good quality source of carbohydrates. Because it includes the entire wheat kernel, it contributes additional protein, wheat oil, bran, and vitamins and minerals to the diet. This is in contrast to the fractionated wheat ingredients used by some manufacturers such as wheat bran, wheat flour or wheat middlings, which are leeched of much of their nutritional value.
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  10. #69
    Junior Member Momof2Pups's Avatar
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    (continued. . .)

    4. Soybean Meal-Soybean meal is the product obtained by grinding the flakes which remain after removal of most of the oil from soybeans by a solvent or mechanical extraction process. Soybean meal is a poor quality protein filler. The "Crude Protein" analysis on pet food labels is only a measurement of the amount of nitrogen in a food -- not the quality of the protein. Because of this, pet food companies can use the cheaper by-products of human food production, such as soybean meal, to boost protein numbers. Meat is always the best source of quality protein. Meat protein is better absorbed and retained and is higher in essential amino acids like methionine, arginine, and taurine. Soybean meal has a biologic value less than 50% of that of chicken meal.
    5. Wheat Mill Run/Middlings-Wheat Mill Run and Middlings consist of coarse and fine particles of wheat bran and fine particles of wheat shorts, wheat germ, wheat flour and offal from the "tail of the mill" Commonly referred to as "floor sweepings", this ingredient is nothing more than inexpensive filler with little or no nutritional value. Natura does not use fractionated grain ingredients or grain byproducts in any of its foods.
    6. Animal Fat-Animal fat is obtained from the tissues of mammals and/or poultry in the commercial process of rendering or extracting. Animal fat is a byproduct of meat meal processing. The origin of the contributing animals is never known, and the resulting oil is very low in linoleic acid -- an essential fatty acid that is important for skin and coat health. Natura uses high quality chicken fat which has the highest levels of linoleic acid.
    7. Chicken Byproduct Meal-Chicken byproduct meal consists of the dry, ground, rendered, clean parts of the carcass of slaughtered chicken, such as necks, feet, undeveloped eggs, and intestines -- exclusive of feathers except in such amounts as might occur unavoidably in good processing practices. Chicken byproduct meal is an inconsistent ingredient because of the multiple organs used, their constantly changing proportions, and their questionable nutritional value. Chicken byproduct meal is much less expensive and less digestible than chicken meal, which Natura uses and which is considered the single best source of protein.
    8. Rice-Rice, unless listed as brown rice, is the de-hulled rice kernel, without the bran -- known as white rice. Rice, in its whole form, is a high quality source of carbohydrates, protein and fiber. This is in contrast to fractionated grain ingredients used by some manufacturers such as rice polishings, rice bran, or brewers rice which have been leeched of much of their nutrient value. Natura uses whole rice, which is the most easily digested grain and the least likely to cause allergic reactions. It is an antidiarrheal and helps lower cholesterol. Natura also uses brown rice, which is the same plant with the bran intact.
    9. Animal Digest-
    Animal digest is a material which results from chemical and/or enzymatic hydrolysis of clean and undecomposed animal tissue. The animal tissues used shall be exclusive of hair, horns, teeth, hooves and feathers, except in such trace amounts as might occur unavoidably in good factory practice and shall be suitable for animal feed. If it bears a name descriptive of its kind or flavor(s), it must correspond thereto. Animal digest is a cooked-down broth made from unspecified parts of unspecified animals. Any kind of animal can be included: goats, pigs, horses, rats, etc. The animals can be obtained from any source, so there is no control over quality or contamination. Natura uses only human grade, single-source meats. You will never find Animal Digest in any of our products.
    10. Salt- Salt is a natural mineral, necessary for life and good health.
    Most pet food ingredients contain enough sodium to meet a dog or cat's nutritional needs. The sodium in the Natura products comes only from the natural ingredients, with no added salt or sodium products as flavor enhancers.

    Some other good foods are Eagle Pack, Canidae, and Timberwolf.

    Use the link at the top of the post to look at the ingredients of almost all foods and click on the ingredient to learn more about it.
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  11. #70
    Junior Member Momof2Pups's Avatar
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    Edit- double post.
    Last edited by Momof2Pups; 11-17-2006 at 01:48 PM.
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  12. #71
    Junior Member MoreSushi's Avatar
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    has anyone heard of Solid Gold? i was talking to a trainer the other say and she swears by it 110%. i've looked it up and few places carry it, not to metion is kinda pricy. how does this compare to the other brands?
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  13. #72
    Senior Member LabLady101's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Momof2Pups View Post
    Even if someone's pet did well on a food it does not change the cruddy ingredients it was made of.
    Foods that are crap are Pedigree, Purina, Ol Roy(probably the worst), Kibbles N Bits, Iams, Beneful, etc. etc.
    You do realize that this is only your opinion and not fact, right? The "someone's pet" I was referring to was a very well respected breeder's champion show bitch (as well as her other champion show dogs- and she has bred and raised many).

    While I agree that I personally do not like foods such as Pedigree, Ol' Roy, Beneful, Kibbles N Bits, and Dog Chow, I am not so against the better lines such as Iams (yes, Iams! It does at least have a named meat as the first ingredient and is definately a step up from Dog Chow), Eukanuba, Purina ONE, and Pro Plan. Many champions have been raised on these foods. Are you going to tell the professionals that raised and worked with them they are all wrong/ignorant? I think not. These professionals do indeed know what they are feeding and definately know that, no matter how many benefits they may get from a company, it's never economical to feed a food that their dogs do poorly on. Besides that, show and field dogs alike have to be in peak physical condition to perform their best. To be in peak condition, they need the right nutrition. If some of these dogs that are Pro Plan (for example) are so nutritionally deprived (as you seem to think since these foods have such "cruddy ingredients"), how do they continuously and consistantly come out on top of the competition in both venues? I'll let you stew over that one...

    Half of what you posted about the ingredients is true and half is purely opinion. The actual definitions (the ones without the opinion-laced trimmings) of the ingredients are fact. However, it is entirely someone's opinion as far as the quality of the ingredient goes. For example, it is entirely someone's opinion that Brewer's Rice is a low quality grain. How do they know it's low quality? Where's it proven? Not from the straight definition. So, this is just something they think and is not proven fact- but yet, it apparently only takes one person or one company to pass along this misinformation and all of a sudden it's supposedly fact to everyone. Another thing, chicken by-product meal is actually way more digestible and is a denser source of protein than chicken meal, and given the choice your dog would most likely choose the by-products over the muscle meat. However, some people cannot stomach the thought of their dog eating things they themselves would not eat, so all of a sudden by-products are bad now too. See what I mean? It is all highly opinion-based. Just because these particular opinions happen to come from Natura, does not make them anymore factual than those that would come from Purina, Iams, etc. They are still trying to sell you on their product.

    All I'm going to say is everyone should feed what works best for their dogs- regardless of what someone else's opinion of it. If that's a so-called "higher quality" food, then that's great. If that's a so-called "lower quality" food, then that's great too. As long as you find that "just right" food, it really doesn't matter what quality it is because it's the best quality for your individual dog.
    Shadow- black pet Labrador Retriever male born 03/16/05
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  14. #73
    Senior Member Snowshoe's Avatar
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    I guess my thoughts on your comments are these: truly, I have no idea what some of the ingredients are listed on a purina bag. They certainly sound very chemical in nature.

    That's why I wouldn't feed those types of food. In the food I feed, I can identify the top 10 ingredients easily as being healthy. This makes me more comfortable. Plus, my dog does really well on what I feed her; her coat is correct for her breed (no, she is not a lab), and plus she really enjoys her food- wolfs it down, if you will.

    If people feed proplan and it does well for them, then that's great. I just don't want to take a chance on my pup. My breeder told me to stay away from Purina, Iams, Beneful, Science Diet, and Nature's Recipe. My breeder, in fact, feeds Eagle Pack (this is not what I feed).

    She has been breeding and showing for well over 20 years, and she knows what her dogs do well on, and what they don't. So, when I picked my food, I followed her advice and my pup has only thrived.

    In my opinion, as long as a dog is healthy that is all that matters.

    (If you are curious, I feed Fromm's White Fish and Potato).
    Last edited by Snowshoe; 11-18-2006 at 09:36 AM.
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  15. #74
    Senior Member workingdog's Avatar
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    we mix chicken soup for the dog lovers soul with purina one, before this it was just purina one and we were/are very happy with purina one but i want them to get more meat that's why we mix it with the chicken soup now.Anyway our dogs just shine and the energy they have is something else.Some might disagree with what we feed but it works for us.I think that with all the different dog foods out there, that's all you can do, find something that works for your dogs and go with it. I do cook them up chicken or some other kind of meat, when i can get it on sale.
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  16. #75
    Senior Member opokki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LabLady101 View Post
    I am just so tired of all the misinformation that is floating around about this or that ingredient or this or that food.
    I hear ya!
    Vanessa


    Natalie, CGC, TDI
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    Although I would never presume to tell someone what they should be feeding their dog, I do have to say that for those of you that feed Iams, you should check out their animal testing procedures and then decide if you'd like to continue to financially support such a company.

    Ok, stepping off the soap box now.

    That being said, I fed Ol Roy and Atta Boy (cheap local brand) to my dogs for years with no health problems. When I got my first newf, the breeder had in her contract to feed Pedigree. After that pup died at 19 months due to total kidney failure (birth defect), I started doing research on everything, including food. Even though all my dogs were completely healthy on the Ol Roy, its not a food that I would even consider feeding anymore, nor is the Pedigree. In my opinion, you might as well be giving your dog corn cobs.

    My top food choices are Timberwolf Organics and Solid Gold.

    If you are feeding a good quality food and having runny poop issues, you are probably feeding too much. Try cutting back on the food before you say that its bad food.
    Newf is my name, drool is my game!
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  18. #77
    Senior Member LabLady101's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NewfCrazy View Post
    Although I would never presume to tell someone what they should be feeding their dog, I do have to say that for those of you that feed Iams, you should check out their animal testing procedures and then decide if you'd like to continue to financially support such a company.
    I have checked out Iams testing procedures. To tell you the TRUTH (and not just what those awful PETA websites say), it's no where near what I assume you're thinking- you can correct me if I'm wrongfully assuming. I would do some more investigating yourself if all you have read about is websites made or sponsered by PETA (which is actually showcasing events not even Iams related). Remember, PETA's goal is for no one to be able to keep a pet at all, let alone be able to feed it meat. Websites like those I'm assuming you're referring to, are actually very hypocritical of PETA.

    To even the playing field, read this about PETA:
    http://www.petakillsanimals.com/

    That website is just the tip of the iceberg of the horrible things PETA has done to animals. PETA should be the last group who should be pointing any animal-cruelty fingers and I, for one, take anything they have to say with a grain of salt.

    I also personally wouldn't feed a food that hasn't been tested on and fed to other dogs. I don't know about anyone else, but I prefer my dogs not to be guinea pigs once the food has hit the shelves.

    Darcy
    Last edited by LabLady101; 11-20-2006 at 10:47 PM.
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  19. #78
    Senior Member ilovemychihuahua's Avatar
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    I use Pedigree. Is that good?
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  20. #79
    Senior Member LabLady101's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ilovemychihuahua View Post
    I use Pedigree. Is that good?
    While I personally don't like Pedigree, I wouldn't tell you to switch if your dog is doing well on it. So, in other words, it's only as good as how your dog does on it. It's for you to decide if you're getting the results from the food that you want.

    Hope that helps,
    Darcy
    Shadow- black pet Labrador Retriever male born 03/16/05
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    I agree that PETA has their own agenda, but the proof of IAMS testing is global and was exposed in the UK before PETA ever did their undercover expose in the US. Although I don't agree with PETA's methods or their philosophy, I think they have done excellent work in exposing things like this. IAMS testing has been documented in various veterinary medical publications, and although they may not have done the testing themselves in every case, they did certainly fund the research. And although PETA is mentioned on this website, it is only to comment on their expose in the US.

    Here's an listing of some the experiments funded by IAMS as summarized by Uncaged, a UK animal rights organization (www.uncaged.co.uk):

    28 CATS' BELLIES WERE CUT TO SEE THE EFFECT OF FEEDING THEM FIBRE, THEN THE CATS WERE KILLED
    University of Nebraska-Lincoln and The Iams Company. (AR Bueno, GD Sunvold & GA Reinhart (both IAMS CO.) et al., "Feline colonic microbes and fatty acid transport: effects of feeding cellulose, beet pulp and pectin/gum arabic fibers", Nutrition Research, Vol 20, No.9: 1319-1328 (2000).)

    24 YOUNG DOGS WERE INTENTIONALLY PUT INTO KIDNEY FAILURE; SUBJECTED TO INVASIVE EXPERIMENTATION, THEN KILLED
    University of Georgia and The Iams Company. (JV White, DA Hirakawa (IAMS CO.) et al., "Effect of dietary protein on functional, morphologic, and histologic changes of the kidney during compensatory renal growth in dogs", Am J Vet Res, Vol 52, No.8, August 1991: 1357-1365.)

    31 DOGS' KIDNEYS WERE REMOVED TO INCREASE THE RISK OF KIDNEY DISEASE, THEN THEY WERE KILLED AND DISSECTED
    University of Georgia and The Iams Company. (Delmar R Finco, Daniel P Carey (IAMS CO.), Diane A Hirakawa (IAMS CO.) et al., "Effects of aging and dietary protein intake on uninephrectomized geriatric dogs", Am J vet Res, Vol 55, No.9, September 1994: 1282-1290.)

    BONES IN 18 DOGS' FRONT AND BACK LEGS WERE CUT OUT AND STRESSED UNTIL THEY BROKE
    University of Wisconsin and The Iams Company. (Thomas D Crenshaw, Allan J Lepine (IAMS CO.) et al., "Nutritional Effects on Bone Strength in the Growing Canine", Proceedings of the 1998 Iams Nutrition Symposium: 29-40.)

    10 DOGS WERE KILLED TO STUDY THE EFFECT OF FIBER IN DIETS
    Mississippi State University and The Iams Company. (Randal K Buddington, Greg D Sunvold (IAMS CO.) et al., "Influence of fermentable fiber on small intestinal dimensions and transport of glucose and proline in dogs", AJVR, Vol 60, No.3, March 1999: 354-358.)

    18 MALE PUPPIES' KIDNEYS WERE CHEMICALLY DAMAGED; EXPERIMENTAL DIETS WERE FED; TUBES WERE INSERTED IN THEIR PENISES, THEN THE PUPPIES WERE KILLED
    Colorado State University and The Iams Company. (Gregory F Grauer, Gregory A Reinhart (IAMS CO.) et al., "Effects of dietary n-3 fatty acid supplementation versus thromboxane synthetase inhibition on gentamicin-induced nephrotoxicosis in healthy male dogs", AJVR, Vol 57, No.6, June 1996: 948-956.)

    8 DOGS' KIDNEYS WERE REMOVED TO STUDY THE EFFECT OF PROTEIN ON RECOVERY FROM KIDNEY REMOVAL
    University of Georgia and The Iams Company. (JV White, DA Hirakawa (IAMS CO.) et al., "High dietary protein intake does not accelerate development of renal lesions during recovery from renal mass reduction in dogs", ACVIM Abstracts, Vol 3 No 2, p.131)

    28 CATS WERE SURGICALLY FORCED INTO KIDNEY FAILURE AND EITHER DIED DURING THE EXPERIMENT OR WERE KILLED TO STUDY THE EFFECTS OF PROTEIN
    University of Georgia and The Iams Company. Delmar R Finco, Gregory D. Sunvold (IAMS CO.) et al., "Influence of Protein and Energy in Cats with Renal Failure", Proceedings of the 1998 Iams Nutrition Symposium: 413-424.)

    15 DOGS' BELLIES WERE CUT OPEN; TUBES WERE ATTACHED TO THEIR INTESTINES, THE CONTENTS OF WHICH WERE PUMPED OUT EVERY 10 MINUTES FOR TWO HOURS, THEN THE DOGS WERE KILLED
    University of Nebraska-Lincoln and The Iams Company. (JE Hallman, GA Reinhart (IAMS CO.) et al., "Colonic mucosal tissue energetics and electrolyte transport in dogs fed cellulose, beet pulp or pectin/gum arabic as their primary fiber source", Nutrition Research, Vol 16, No.2: 303-313 (1996).)

    16 DOGS' BELLIES WERE CUT OPEN AND PARTS OF THEIR INTESTINES TAKEN
    University of Alberta and The Iams Company. (Stefan P Massimino, Michael G Hayek (IAMS CO.), Gregory D Sunvold (IAMS CO.) et al., "Fermentable Dietary Fiber Increases GLP-1 Secretion and Improves Glucose Homeostasis Despite Increased Glucose Transport Capacity in Healthy Dogs", Journal of the American Society for Nutritional Sciences: 1786-1793 (1998).)

    HEALTHY PUPPIES, CHICKS, AND RATS HAD BONE AND CARTILAGE REMOVED TO STUDY BONE AND JOINT DEVELOPMENT
    Purdue University and The Iams Company. (Bruce A Watkins, Allan J Lepine (IAMS CO.), C. Gregory Aldrich (IAMS CO.), Michael G Hayek (IAMS CO.), et al., "Relationships of Fat Quality and Antioxidants in Bone and Cartilage", Proceedings of the 2000 Iams Nutrition Symposium: 505-514.)

    INVASIVE PROCEDURES WERE USED TO STUDY BACTERIA IN 16 DOGS' INTESTINES
    Texas A&M University and The Iams Company. (MD Willard, G Reinhart (IAMS CO.), et al., "Effects of dietary supplementation of fructo-oligosaccharides on small intestinal bacterial overgrowth in dogs", Am J Vet Res, Vol 55, No.5, May 1994: 654-659.)

    24 CATS HAD THEIR FEMALE ORGANS AND PARTS OF THEIR LIVERS REMOVED; WERE MADE OBESE, THEN WERE STARVED
    University of Kentucky and The Iams Company. (Wissam H Ibrahim, Gregory D Sunvold (IAMS CO.) et al., "Effect of dietary protein quality and fatty acid composition on plasma lipoprotein concentrations and hepatic triglyceride fatty acid synthesis in obese cats undergoing rapid weight loss", AJVR, Vol 61, No.5, May 2000: 566-572.)

    56 DOGS HAD THEIR FEMALE ORGANS REMOVED TO STUDY BETA CAROTENE
    Washington State University and The Iams Company. (BC Weng, AJ Lepine (IAMS CO.), et al., "Beta-Carotene uptake and changes in ovarian steroids and uterine proteins during the estrous cycle in the canine", J. Anim. Sci. 2000. 78:1284-1290.)

    16 DOGS' BELLIES WERE REPEATEDLY CUT TO TAKE PARTS OF THEIR INTESTINES
    Texas A&M and The Iams Company. (MD Willard, DP Carey (IAMS CO.), GA Reinhart (IAMS CO.) et al., "Characterization of naturally developing small intestinal bacterial overgrowth in 16 German Shepherd Dogs", JAVMA, Vol 204, No. 8, April 15, 1994: 1201-1206.)

    6 DOGS HAD TUBES IMPLANTED INTO THEIR INTESTINES AND FLUID DRAINED REPEATEDLY TO STUDY CEREAL FLOURS
    University of Illinois and The Iams Company. (SM Murray, GD Sunvold (IAMS CO.), GA Reinhart (IAMS CO) et al., "Evaluation of Selected High-Starch Flours as Ingredients in Canine Diets", J. Anim. Sci. 1999. 77:2180-2186.)

    30 DOGS WERE WOUNDED AND PATCHES OF SKIN CONTAINING THE WOUNDS REMOVED TO STUDY WOUND-HEALING
    Auburn University and The Iams Company. (Mark A Mooney, Gregory A Reinhart (IAMS CO.) et al., "Evaluation of the effects of omega-3 fatty acid-containing diets on the inflammatory stage of wound-healing in dogs", AJVR, Vol 59, No. 7, July 1998: 859-863.)

    5 DOGS' BELLIES WERE CUT OPEN AND TUBES WERE INSERTED FROM THEIR INTESTINES TO THE OUTSIDE OF THEIR BODIES TO STUDY THE EFFECTS OF FIBER
    University of Illinois and The Iams Company. (HE Muir, GA Reinhart (IAMS CO.) et al., "Nutrient Digestion by Ileal Cannulated Dogs as Affected by Dietary Fibers with Various Fermentation Characteristics", J. Anim. Sci. 1996. 74: 1641-1648.)

    PARTS OF 28 DOGS' LARGE INTESTINES WERE REMOVED TO STUDY THE EFFECTS OF FIBER
    University of Missouri and The Iams Company. (MD Howard, GD Sunvold (IAMS CO.), GA Reinhart (IAMS CO.) et al, "Dietary fiber sources alter colonic blood flow and epithelial cell proliferation of dogs", J. Anim. Sci. 1997. 74(Suppl. 1).)

    PARTS OF 16 DOGS' INTESTINES AND IMMUNE SYSTEM WERE CUT OUT TO STUDY THE EFFECTS OF FIBER
    University of Alberta and The Iams Company. (Catherine J Field, Michael G Hayek (IAMS CO.), Gregory D Sunvold (IAMS CO.) et al., "Interaction of Fiber Fermentation and Immunology of the Gastrointestinal Tract", Proceedings of the 1998 Iams Nutrition Symposium: 523-530)

    5 DOGS HAD TISSUE FROM LARGE AND SMALL INTESTINES REMOVED TO STUDY INTESTINAL TRACT NEEDS
    University of Illinois and The Iams Company. (James K Drackley, Gregory D Sunvold (IAMS CO.) et al, "Energetic Substrates for Intestinal Cells", Proceedings of the 1998 Iams Nutrition Symposium: 463-472.)

    8 HEALTHY DOGS HAD TUBES INSERTED THROUGH THEIR CHESTS TO STUDY FAT ABSORPTION
    The Ohio State University and The Iams Company. (Jennifer D Newton, GA Reinhart (IAMS CO.), et al., "Transport Pathways of Enterally Administered Medium-Chain Triglycerides in Dogs", Proceedings of the 2000 Iams Nutrition Symposium: 143-152.)

    SECTIONS OF 36 DOGS' SKINS WERE CUT OUT TO STUDY EFFECTS OF DIET ON FUR
    Texas A&M and The Iams Company. (Kelly M Credille, GA Reinhart (IAMS CO.), GM Davenport (IAMS CO.) et al., "The Role of Nutrition on the Canine Hair Follicle: A Preliminary Report", Proceedings of the 2000 Iams Nutrition Symposium: 37-53.)

    14 PUPPIES WERE INJECTED WITH SUBSTANCES THAT GAVE THEM LIFE-LONG ALLERGIES, MADE THEM SICK, AND GAVE THEM DIARRHOEA
    University of Calgary and The Iams Company. (Merle E Olson, Michael G Hayek (IAMS CO.) et al., "Hypersensitivity Reactions to Dietary Antigens in Atopic Dogs", Proceedings of the 2000 Iams Nutrition Symposium: 69-77.)
    Newf is my name, drool is my game!
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