Soy milk/lactose free milk

[lucidity]

Just wondering if it's good to give dogs soy milk? My friend gives her dog lactose free milk everyday (about 1/2 cup or so) and every time Cadence and I go over, he keeps going over to lick my friend's dog's empty bowl (guess it still smells like milk). He seems to really love the milk.

Went to the store today to buy some for him, but wow... lactose free milk sure is expensive!! I found soy milk (it was cheaper and has an expiry date 2 months from now) and bought a bottle. Does anyone here feed their dogs lactose free milk or soy milk? It's not bad for their health, is it?

[tskoffina]

I don't know about it. We only drink Rice Milk here, my son's allergic to regular and soy, so we have rice milk. I would almost think that would be better, since a bland diet for them is rice and chicken.

[lovemygreys]

I wouldn't drink soy milk and I certainly wouldn't give it to my dogs. Lactose free milk...I dunno. Why bother. Milk of any sort isn't entirely appropriate for an adult dog. If you want to give them a treat, give them some meat broth or, even better, meat.

[FilleBelle]

I'm with lovemygreys in that I'm not sure what the purpose of giving soy or lactose free milk to a dog would be. I wouldn't give my dog regular ol' milk...can't imagine why I'd give him a super-expensive version of fake milk, lol.

[lucidity]

lovemygreys: why wouldn't you drink soy milk?? It's actually better than regular milk--it has more protein, no hormones, and way way less cholesterol and saturated fats. I love soy milk myself.

Well I like giving Cadence variety. I imagine he must be bored eating his kibble every day. He doesn't like chicken broth at all. He seems to like sweet things better than salty things for some reason. He doesn't even like those canned gravies that they sell for people to add into their dogs' food.

[flipgirl]

I wouldn't give either, especially since soy is a common allergen for dogs. It would probably be more beneficial to give a tablespoon of plain fat-free yogurt once or twice a week.

[lucidity]

Cadence has no allergies... and he hates yoghurt too, unfortunately. -_- He doesn't even like the sweetened kind. He will only eat it when he's starving and has nothing else to eat, sigh.

[katielou]

I wouldn't feed soy to my worst enemy so wouldn't be giving it to my dogs. It plays havoc with hormones. Especially in children.

I would stick with more suitable things.

[lovemygreys]

lovemygreys: why wouldn't you drink soy milk?? It's actually better than regular milk--it has more protein, no hormones, and way way less cholesterol and saturated fats. I love soy milk myself.

Soy milk is not healthy. Even conventional wisdom recommends women with a connection to breast cancer avoid soy because the phytoestrogens contribute to the growth of tumors in the breast, endometrium and uterus. Why tempt cancer? Soy is also goitrogenic...meaning, it can break your thyroid. Then there's the lectins and phytates (anti-nutrients that block mineral absorbtion like calcium, zinc and iron...not good for women who are concerned with bone health). With virtually no benefit (there are WAY better WHOLE foods to consume that don't carry risks that soy does), it comes back to: why bother. In small doses it won't kill you, but it's far from a health food and it's highly processed.

I pretty much just drink water anyway. The only kind of "milk" I consume in any quantity comes from a coconut...a great source of saturated fat. If I do drink real milk, I drink one of the healthiest kinds of milk you can drink: whole, raw milk from hormone/antibiotic free grass fed cows (though I'm not so sure milk of any kind is a "great" thing for adults to drink).

People think soy milk is healthy because of marketing.

Cholesterol and saturated fats are not inherently bad for you.

Good point from flipgirl - soy is a big allergen in dogs (and people too...it comes back to lectins). I'd avoid it.

[Mr. V]

Why do you think raw milk is better than pasteurized milk?

[lucidity]

lovemygreys, I would never drink raw milk. Nor would I ever give it to children or young people.

Can you cite reliable sources for your claims on soy? I've NEVER heard anything like that in my life. Asians (Chinese/Japanese) have been drinking soy milk and eating soy products for THOUSANDS of years and we do not have a higher rate of breast cancer etc. It's a godsend for people like us who are mostly lactose intolerant! I get sick when I drink cow's milk. Even in ice cream form. I can barely eat any ice cream that has alot of milk in it.

I don't want this to come down to a "you say" vs "I say" topic. That was not my intention. I hate when it comes down to that, especially when cultural values are involved. Soy is part of my culture, just like I don't know, potatoes is in the American culture. I grew up eating soy products and so did everyone around me.

[katielou]

I can't site them right now because i am on my phone but if you google it you can come up with many studies a recent huge one proved that soy was a huge cause of early puberty which is why asian girls started there periods on average 4 years earlier than american little girls.

[lucidity]

I did a search and it's STILL debatable. Like all studies are. Researchers are still not 100% sure what the effects of soy are.

And I don't know if you're right about the puberty thing.... nobody I know (or anyone they or my family knows) hit puberty early unless they were on the heavier end of the scale. Right now I find that the debate on soy is still under scrutiny. Nobody's sure 100% that it's bad. So for now, I'm going to continue eating it.

Most research that they publish on the news etc. are always biased. I tend to take them with a pinch of salt. The news people always pick the most sensational studies to air, and chuck the boring (but more credible) sources aside.

Anyway, end of topic. I'm tired of debating over whether a thousand year old dish/drink is good or bad.

[Willowy]

A lot of the modern soy milk brands have a bunch of added sugar. Not like the traditional soy milk the older Japanese ladies make. But even without sugar, I'm not so sure about dogs + soy. It is a common allergen for dogs. If he really likes milk, maybe a tablespoon of regular milk would be OK. I wouldn't give a dog 1/2 cup a day, lactose-free or not.

[lucidity]

The bottles I found at the store, there were 2 choices.. either sweetened or unsweetened. It's the fresh kind, not the kind that they put in cans etc. It was a Chinese supermarket that I went to, so they have fresh Asian everything there, lol.

But thanks Willowy, for answering my original question.

[lovemygreys]

Pasteurized milk is really not much more than sugar water. Esp the low fat varieties found in supermarkets. Nature put fat in milk because it's necessary for the absorption of many of the vitamins and minerals in milk. When I first contemplated drinking raw milk, I was terrified I'd contract some terrible illness because raw milk is "unsafe"...then I actually read and learned about raw milk. I'd give fresh, raw milk from a well kept, pastured herd to my child long before I'd give them the pasteurized milk from a grocery store. Here's one site: http://www.realmilk.com/moreraw.html

Traditional asian diets that included soy didn't include it in the copious amounts that modern diets (including modern asian diets) consume it (look at the average ingredient label...soy is in nearly EVERYTHING these days). Plus, the soy they did eat was prepared in a traditional fashion (properly soaked and fermented, which removes a lot of the "bad stuff"). Traditionally prepared soy milk is vastly different than industrialized, mass produced soy milk.

From WAPF:

Soy foods are widely used in China as an adjunct to animal foods. The Chinese have perfected numerous ways of fermenting soy in order to neutralize phytic acid (which blocks minerals like zinc and calcium), enzyme inhibitors (which block digestion) and goitrogens (which inhibit thyroid function.) Traditional preparation of soymilk begins with soaking until the beans become soft. The softened beans are ground into a mush on a stone grinder, using copious amounts of water. The mush is then put into a cloth bag and placed under a weight or heavy rock so that all the liquid is squeezed out. The resulting soy paste is then cooked in fresh water. Large amounts of dirty scum that rise to the surface are carefully removed. To serve, raw egg or dried shrimp are placed in a bowl along with scallions, soy sauce, flavorings and vinegar, and the scalding soy milk is poured over. The vinegar causes the soy milk to curdle slightly. In traditional times, homemade soymilk was consumed by the elderly and by nursing mothers in the belief that it stimulated breastmilk, but was not normally used in feeding infants.4

Industrial methods for the production of soymilk leave out the all-important squeezing and skimming steps. The presoaking is shortened by using an alkaline solution. This process helps deactivate some of the enzyme inhibitors, but not the other antinutrients. The high pH value of the soaking solution results in a decrease in cystine content when the beverage is heated, thus lowering total protein availability and soymilk's usefulness as a protein source.5 Various refined sweeteners, preservatives and stabilizers may then be added.

The real value of the soybean is that it can be made into soy sauce, the salty elixir that gives Oriental food its unique character. Traditional soy sauce is made by a fermentation process that takes six to eight months to complete. This long and careful procedure creates a mix of phenolic compounds, including a natural form of glutamic acid, that contribute to the unique taste and aroma of traditionally brewed soy sauce. The modern bioreactor method produces a product by rapid hydrolysis, rather than by complete fermentation, in the space of two days, and uses the enzyme glutamase as a reactor, so that the final product contains large amounts of the kind of unnatural glutamic acid that is found in MSG.6

http://www.westonaprice.org/traditio...-in-china.html

Not telling you what you should/shouldn't eat. You asked for opinions and I offered mine. It's your life and your health to do so as you wish. Same for your dog.

[anjolina]

The milk proteins are what your dog can't digest. Along w/the lactose (milk sugar). Sugar is not good for dogs at all. That combined w/the whole milk proteins are bad for your dog. Please don't feed your dog milk..the reaction is diarhea/upset stomach. Same with Cats/kittens ...kittens need formula not milk. (just like human babies). Soy milk should not be a problem unless there is sugar in it, or if your dog is allergic to soy protein. But many dog foods are now adding soy protein. With Soy milk you just need to check the lable..see if it has any sugar in it.

[Mr. V]

Do you have any other websites that a little more professional approach? That link you gave didn't have any references and some of it was a little misleading.

-- It says that the test for pasteurization is the absence of enzymes. We we have to do the morning milking on our dairy rotation at school and we pasteurize and test the milk ourselves. The test is for an enzyme called Alkaline Phosphatase. The body doesn't need an exogenous source of this enzyme as phosphatase is readily available in the average individual and that specific enzyme is actually produce in states of liver disease by the cells of the liver. It is used as a marker in pasteurization b/c its heat stability is greater than that of the bacteria we're trying to eliminate in the process - testing individually for all of them would be too expensive.

I just figure that even a well kept pastured herd is going to have individuals who have mastitis and subsequent milk contamination.

I'm not trying to say you're all wrong on raw milk. You obviously have read a lot about, but, I just would prefer some peer reviewed literature in support of raw milk if you know where it can be found. That website seems like more of an opinion blog without any references.

[Corey The Trainer]

I know that dogs can't digest The milk proteins. Along w/the lactose (milk sugar). Sugar is not good for dogs AT ALL. However once in a while as a treat probably wont hurt them but I recommend no more then 2 times a month.

[lucidity]

Not telling you what you should/shouldn't eat. You asked for opinions and I offered mine. It's your life and your health to do so as you wish. Same for your dog.

I was not asking for opinions, I was asking for facts on whether or not soy milk/lactose free milk is harmful to dogs, ie. solid evidence which shows conclusively that it's bad for dogs. Like grapes and chocolate. You gave your opinion on your distrust/dislike of soy products (in your first post). Your website cites sources that may be misleading. You know how it is, there's black and white and two sides to every story. Same goes with research. I find that most of the time, articles like the one you cited are not necessarily reliable because they pick only the research that supports their claims and ignore the ones which contradict them.

Research is always being done. Today they're saying that milk causes allergies and cancer. Tomorrow they will say something else. It's always something or other. There's a "X causes Z" research virtually every food you consume today. Can they all be true? Most probably not. By saying that "soy has virtually no benefit" is going completely overboard and rude, imo, especially to the millions of people depend on soy proteins to survive because they haven't any access to animal protein. It's virtually the centrepiece of any vegan or vegetarian diet.