Papillons (Small breed dogs) - Need food advice - What do you feed?
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Thread: Papillons (Small breed dogs) - Need food advice - What do you feed?

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    Member sachi's Avatar
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    Papillons (Small breed dogs) - Need food advice - What do you feed?

    I have 2 papillons (8yr old girl and 5yr old boy) that currently eat Merrick dry and canned. I rotate between the trial size dry dog food bags - Cowboy Cookout, Grammy's Pot Pie, and Turducken. About a month ago an employee at a local pet store(not my regular) told me the 8yr old should be eating senior food and the 5yr old could too. So I bought them a bag of Merrick Senior Medley. It gave both of them the RUNS!!! So I brought it back to the pet store. They went back to their regular Merrick dry and canned - everything seemed fine... Then yesterday my girl had the RUNS again. She will be getting pumpkin with their food for now. They were fine for MONTHS on Merrick, I want to try a different food for them or maybe the Merrick Wilderness Blend (I heard it was good for dogs with sensitive stomachs).

    The owner of my regular pet food store always gives me different sample bags of food when I go since she knows I give it to them as treats. They are a little picky... They won't eat Chicken Soup, Pure Vita, Canidae, or a blue bag (cant remember the name). My girl loved Addiction - La Porchetta. She could pick them out of the other samples I gave her as treats. They also seem to like the Royal Canin Labrador food (just as a treat).

    I just ordered the different Orijen, Acana, and Merrick Before Grain trial bags, and a big sample pack/box online.

    Is Addiction a good brand? What do you guys feed your dogs? Any advice is greatly appreciated.

    Thank you

    PS - Cost/money is not really problem since they eat so little

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    Senior Member LazyGRanch713's Avatar
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    Re: Papillons (Small breed dogs) - Need food advice - What do you feed?

    Quote Originally Posted by sachi View Post
    I have 2 papillons (8yr old girl and 5yr old boy) that currently eat Merrick dry and canned. I rotate between the trial size dry dog food bags - Cowboy Cookout, Grammy's Pot Pie, and Turducken. About a month ago an employee at a local pet store(not my regular) told me the 8yr old should be eating senior food and the 5yr old could too. So I bought them a bag of Merrick Senior Medley. It gave both of them the RUNS!!! So I brought it back to the pet store. They went back to their regular Merrick dry and canned - everything seemed fine... Then yesterday my girl had the RUNS again. She will be getting pumpkin with their food for now. They were fine for MONTHS on Merrick, I want to try a different food for them or maybe the Merrick Wilderness Blend (I heard it was good for dogs with sensitive stomachs).

    The owner of my regular pet food store always gives me different sample bags of food when I go since she knows I give it to them as treats. They are a little picky... They won't eat Chicken Soup, Pure Vita, Canidae, or a blue bag (cant remember the name). My girl loved Addiction - La Porchetta. She could pick them out of the other samples I gave her as treats. They also seem to like the Royal Canin Labrador food (just as a treat).

    I just ordered the different Orijen, Acana, and Merrick Before Grain trial bags, and a big sample pack/box online.

    Is Addiction a good brand? What do you guys feed your dogs? Any advice is greatly appreciated.

    Thank you

    PS - Cost/money is not really problem since they eat so little
    Your paps are ADORABLE
    I have a 9 1/2 year old pap who is eating ALS food, and the puppy (not quite 1 1/2 years) is on the same ALS food, I feed Merricks Before Grains. They gobble it up like candy. I tried a bag of their regular line (I think it was turducken) and they ate it, but with less gusto. I occasionally throw raw in there, and they dont eat it as enthusiastically as they do the BG kibble...go figure
    I would hardly consider an 8 year old pap a senior by any means (nor would I a FIVE year old!! WTH!?). Just because a dog is a certain age doesn't mean they *have* to eat a different type of food IMO. My dogs do well on what I'm feeding, so that's what I'm sticking with.

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    Member calpapmom11's Avatar
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    Re: Papillons (Small breed dogs) - Need food advice - What do you feed?

    I have an 11 month old pap that had a lot of stomach issues. I finally found that he does very well on Wellness Core kibble. Plus he really likes it and he is pretty picky. My vet recommended using probiotics every once in a while if his stools started to get loose. I was surprised at how well they work.

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    Senior Member yappypappymom's Avatar
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    Re: Papillons (Small breed dogs) - Need food advice - What do you feed?

    I feed my 2 EVO red meat. I tried a bag of TOTW, but, my goodness, they "farted" their way through the entire 6 lb. bag, plus, their stools were not as firm(pappy farts can be just as horrendous as big dog farts). My girl has a SUPER sensitive tummy, so, I have to be VERY careful about what she eats; my boy seems to have a tummy made of iron though. EVO works perfectly for the both of them, &, I think that I get great bang-for-my-buck, & they appear to thrive well on it.

    ETA- WELCOME sachi & calpap!!!
    Last edited by yappypappymom; 09-23-2010 at 11:38 PM.

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    Senior Member lucidity's Avatar
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    Re: Papillons (Small breed dogs) - Need food advice - What do you feed?

    I feel kinda iffy about Addiction's kibble.. doesn't look like there's a lot of meat in all of them... I too wouldn't bother feeding senior food. For the most part, senior food just has way more carbs and less protein. A good ALS food would be good enough for your paps.

    I've fed a whole bunch of different brands... EVO, Innova, California Natural, Orijen, Wellness CORE, and Fromm. So far the ones I like best are the grainfree ones like EVO, Orijen, CORE, and Fromm (Surf & Turf). You could try Acana grainfree as well.
    Lucidity's Papillons & Cavaliers

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    Senior Member LazyGRanch713's Avatar
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    Re: Papillons (Small breed dogs) - Need food advice - What do you feed?

    Quote Originally Posted by calpapmom11 View Post
    I have an 11 month old pap that had a lot of stomach issues. I finally found that he does very well on Wellness Core kibble. Plus he really likes it and he is pretty picky. My vet recommended using probiotics every once in a while if his stools started to get loose. I was surprised at how well they work.
    Probiotics are a God send For full blown gastro problems, I add enzymes as well.

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    Re: Papillons (Small breed dogs) - Need food advice - What do you feed?

    I've fed my poodle mix Addiction's kangaroo and apples formula and, I'll say, that she did the best she's ever done on it. I can't get it locally and we're currently out and I have an itchy dog again. This includes her eating grain free kibbles (which is what we usually feed)

    Of course every food isn't right for every dog

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    Re: Papillons (Small breed dogs) - Need food advice - What do you feed?

    I don't think they really need senior food. Just make sure you're not feeding too much and make sure they have adequate exercise. Senior food is usually for those that are afraid their dogs are going to get fat when they get older.

    I have a Papillon as well, she has an iron stomach though she does fine with almost any food on the market. The ones I've liked the most are Acana (3 grain free formulas) and Orijen though. High quality ingredients, small poops and no farts.

    I'm not familiar with Addiction so I won't comment on that.

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    Member sachi's Avatar
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    Re: Papillons (Small breed dogs) - Need food advice - What do you feed?

    Thank you everyone for all the replies - Until I find something they both do well on again - any help is greatly appreciated.

    My dogs are both about 8 to 8.5 lbs. To those who feed raw - I'd be interested in how much you feed. I dont think I'll feed them raw(atleast not right now - need to do too much research to jump right in and going on vacation next week), but I used the raw food calculator and it came out to about 0.18 lb/1.6 oz/5.75 tbsp per day per dog. Would that be correct?

    Does anyone use raw dehydrated? Ziwipeak, Honest Kitchen, Addiction-dehydrated, Oma's Pride, etc? Ziwipeak looked the cheapest out of all of them.

    Also, what brand of supplements, probiotics and enzymes do you use? I'll have to look into those. Currently, my dogs each get 1/2 of a Pet Naturals of Vermont Daily Best and 1/2 of their Hip+Joint.

    Thank you again

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    Re: Papillons (Small breed dogs) - Need food advice - What do you feed?

    I use Ziwipeak as a supplement because Nia is a picky eater, sometimes she will go around 48 hrs without eating. If she does that and I'm really worried I will give her some Ziwipeak as a training treat.

    If you can afford to feed Ziwipeak I would feed that because it's really excellent. Ziwipeak is not really dehydrated raw because you don't need to add water and rehydrate it when you feed. Just feed it dry. You also need to feed very little, something around half a scoop per day per dog.

    However, it's 29.99 for 2 lbs here and I can't really afford it.

    The raw amount sounds about right, I'm not sure about the tablespoons though! Not sure how you would put a chicken wing or leg or something into a tablespoon. That's probably a little bit too little, I think 2 oz. would be a good amount to feed.

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    Senior Member lucidity's Avatar
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    Re: Papillons (Small breed dogs) - Need food advice - What do you feed?

    Cadence gets raw a couple of days a week. I give him Nature's Variety's medallions (premade raw) just because it's less of a hassle than having to feed raw myself. He gets 3oz a day. From time to time he gets a chicken wing to eat, lol.

    I too give him Ziwipeak as treats. I just can't afford to feed him 100% Ziwipeak--it's even more expensive than feeding him premade raw! But it's very good food though. A great alternative if you don't want to feed raw.

    Cadence also gets salmon oil (1000mg/day). It helps with his coat and shedding.

    ETA: forgot to add that he weighs 9lbs. His weight fluctuates alot though. He has bouts of picky eating followed by bouts of hearty eating.
    Last edited by lucidity; 09-25-2010 at 09:20 PM.
    Lucidity's Papillons & Cavaliers

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    Re: Papillons (Small breed dogs) - Need food advice - What do you feed?

    Quote Originally Posted by lucidity View Post
    Cadence also gets salmon oil (1000mg/day). It helps with his coat and shedding.:
    I think that's too much because according to the vet the recommended amount is 800-1000mg/20 lbs of body weight @_@ If you give it every other day that seems about right

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    Re: Papillons (Small breed dogs) - Need food advice - What do you feed?

    Wow - Ziwipeak is a expensive like the others. (I think I may have been looking at the cat food prices... lol) Maybe after finding a good dry kibble I'll think about adding a raw (probably dehydrated/freeze dried) to their diet.

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    Senior Member lucidity's Avatar
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    Re: Papillons (Small breed dogs) - Need food advice - What do you feed?

    Quote Originally Posted by Michiyo-Fir View Post
    I think that's too much because according to the vet the recommended amount is 800-1000mg/20 lbs of body weight @_@ If you give it every other day that seems about right
    I used to give him 1 every other day, but it didn't seem to be doing anything for him so I just upped it and he's doing well on it..

    Sachi: I think you should go with a high quality kibble and supplement with Ziwipeak or raw. Cadence loves his raw, it's like a treat for him and he gets variety
    Lucidity's Papillons & Cavaliers

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    Member calpapmom11's Avatar
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    Re: Papillons (Small breed dogs) - Need food advice - What do you feed?

    I use the Proviable-DC capsules for dogs and cats by Nutramax. There is also a paste that Calvin just licks right off my finger. I give that for a day or two and then will give the capsules for a little longer if he seems like his stomach is unhappy. This has saved a lot of trips to the vet. If he just sticks to eating his food, everything is great in the poop department. However, he likes to find things in the backyard and gulp them down before I can get them away from him. Calvin is pretty big for a pap - 11 pounds.

    I also find that if I have to board him at the kennel, he gets issues with his stomach. I'm not sure if it's nerves or all the treats they give him. The probiotics work wonders for this situation.

    Lucidity, you said you give Cadence salmon oil to help with shedding and coat. Is that a capsule or do you put that on the food? Does it give Cadence really fishy breath? Calvin has been shedding like crazy the last month or so. I was thinking he was going to have this amazing coat. Now I'm thinking he is going to be a naked pap if this doesn't quit soon.
    Last edited by calpapmom11; 09-26-2010 at 09:14 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

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    Re: Papillons (Small breed dogs) - Need food advice - What do you feed?

    Today I bought my dogs Healthy Select Enzymes and Probiotics (It was the only one I could find). Am I/Will I be giving them too many supplements/vitamins/enzymes/etc? They each currently get 1/2 of a Pet Naturals Daily Best (it has some digestive enzymes also) and 1/2 of a Pet Naturals Hip+Joint for Small Dogs. The reason I started the Daily Best is because my girl hurt her back a while ago (nothing too serious, Dr gave her a shot, meds, and bed rest) the night before I took her to the vet she didnt want to eat, so I was home cooking for them for a little bit. Just wanted to make sure they were getting the vitamins etc. Then my boy hurt/sprained his leg (he had meds and bed rest) so I started to Hip+Joint to be safe in the long run...

    Below is the list of ingredients for their supplements. Please let me know if you think its too much, etc. Should I stop anything? Thank you


    Pet Naturals Daily Best (They each get half of a chew daily)
    Guaranteed Analysis Per Soft Chew (Approximately 3.5g):
    Levels represent minimums unless otherwise stated:
    DL-Methionine . . . . . . . . . . . .2.5 mg
    Linoleic Acid . . . . . . . . . . . . .2 mg
    Calcium (2.86%) . . . . . . . . . . .100 mg
    Phosphorus (2.37%) . . . . . . . . . .83 mg
    Potassium (0.36%) . . . . . . . . .12.44 mg
    Magnesium (1.3%) . . . . . . . . . 46.65 mg
    Iron (857 ppm) . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 mg
    Copper (0.7 ppm) . . . . . . . . .0.0025 mg
    Manganese (286 ppm) . . . . . . . . . .1 mg
    Zinc (428 ppm) . . . . . . . . . . . 1.5 mg
    Iodine (14.3 ppm) . . . . . . . . . 0.05 mg
    Selenium (0.57 ppm) . . . . . . . .0.002 mg
    Vitamin A . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1000 IU
    Vitamin D3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . 100 IU
    Vitamin E . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .2 IU
    Thiamine (Vitamin B1) . . . . . . . . .1 mg
    Riboflavin (Vitamin B2) . . . . . . . .1 mg
    Pantothenic Acid . . . . . . . . . . . 2 mg
    Niacin . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .10 mg
    Pyridoxine HCI (Vitamin B6) . . . . .0.2 mg
    Folic Acid . . . . . . . . . . . . 0.002 mg
    Vitamin B12 . . . . . . . . . . . .0.002 mg
    Choline . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .2.5 mg
    *Cobalt . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 0.03 mg
    *Biotin . . . . . . . . . . . . . .0.002 mg
    *Menadione
    (source of Vitamin K activity) . .0.001 mg
    *Para-aminobenzoic Acid . . . . . . 3.75 mg
    *Ascorbic Acid (Vitamin C) . . . . . .50 mg
    *Lecithin . . . . . . . . . . . . . .2.5 mg
    *Inositol . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .2 mg
    *Betaine HCl . . . . . . . . . . . . 2.5 mg
    *Pepsin (Porcine) . . . . . 6.75 USP Units1
    *Lipase (Pancreatin) . . . .3.75 USP Units3
    *Protease (Pancreatin) . . . .46 USP Units1
    *Bromelain (Pineapple) . . . 1.35 GD Units2

    *Not recognized as an essential nutrient by the AAFCO Dog Food Nutrient Profiles.

    1One USP unit of protease activity will liberate 3.0 mg amino acids (from egg albumin)/min/mg of the enzyme under standard conditions.

    2One GD unit of protease activity will liberate approximately 8.4 mg amino acids (from gelatin)/20 min/mg of enzyme at 45 C and pH 4.5.

    3One USP of lipase activity will liberate 1 mmol fatty acid from olive oil/min/mg of enzyme at 37 C and pH 9.0.

    Ingredients: brewers yeast, chicken liver flavor, calcium phosphate, glycerin, whey, canola oil, soy lecithin, maltodextrin, sodium alginate, calcium sulfate, magnesium oxide, l-ascorbyl-2-monophosphate, potassium chloride, iron proteinate, niacinamide, zinc proteinate, manganese proteinate, choline chloride, bromelain (from pineapple), vitamin E supplement, para-aminobenzoic acid, betaine hydrochloride, safflower oil, dl-methionine, d-calcium pantothenate, vitamin A supplement, riboflavin, vitamin B12 supplement, thiamine mononitrate, cobalt proteinate, inositol, pancreatin (a source of lipase and protease activity), pyridoxine HCl, vitamin D3 supplement, biotin, sodium selenite, copper proteinate, calcium iodate, menadione sodium bisulfite complex (source of vitamin K activity), pepsin (from porcine), folic acid, natural mixed tocopherols, propionic acid.
    Feeding Directions:
    Under 20 lbs: 1 soft chew daily.
    20 - 70 lbs: 2 soft chews daily.
    Over 70 lbs: 3 soft chews daily.
    If giving more than 1 soft chew daily, divide between AM and PM.


    Pet Naturals Hip+Joint for Small Dogs (They each get half of a chew daily)
    Recommended to support joint structure, function and flexibility to dogs of all ages.

    Product Facts:
    Active Ingredients Per Approximately 2 Soft Chews:
    Glucosamine HCl . . . . . . . .200 mg
    Methylsulfonylmethane (MSM) . .100 mg
    Chondroitin Sulfate . . . . . .100 mg
    Ascorbic Acid (Stay-C®) . . . . 25 mg
    N,N-Dimethylglycine HCl (DMG) . 25 mg
    Eicosapentaenoic Acid (EPA) . .7.5 mg
    Docosahexaenoic Acid (DHA) . . . 5 mg
    Manganese (Mn Proteinate) . . 1.25 mg

    Inactive Ingredients: brewers yeast, chicken liver flavor, corn oil, fish oil, glycerin, natural mixed tocopherols, propionic acid, soy lecithin, SureSweet™ (maltodextrin, sodium alginate and calcium sulfate), whey.
    Directions For Use:
    Up to 20 lbs: 2 soft chews daily.
    21 - 30 lbs: 3 soft chews daily.

    Healthy Select Enzymes and Probiotics (I was thinking about giving them each 1/4 per meal)
    Active Ingredients per 3 gram tablet: Alpha-amylase (aspergillus oryzae var.) 2200 SKB, Lipase (aspergillus niger var.) 200 LU, Cellulase (Trichoderm longibrachiatum) 70 CMCU, Protease (Ananas comosus) 21000 PU, Probiotics (Lactobacillus acidophilus) 95 Million CFU.
    Inactive Ingredients: Dicalcium phosphate, magnesium stearate, maltodextrins, microcystalline cellulose, natural flavoring, non-fat dry milk, silica aerogel, stearic acid, vegetable oil, and whey.
    Suggested Use: Give with every meal. Up to 20 lbs. 1/2 tablet, 21-40 lbs. 1 tablet, 41-80 lbs. 1 - 1 1/2 tablets, 81 lbs. and over 2 tablets.

  18. #17
    Senior Member LazyGRanch713's Avatar
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    Re: Papillons (Small breed dogs) - Need food advice - What do you feed?

    Quote Originally Posted by lucidity View Post
    I used to give him 1 every other day, but it didn't seem to be doing anything for him so I just upped it and he's doing well on it..

    Sachi: I think you should go with a high quality kibble and supplement with Ziwipeak or raw. Cadence loves his raw, it's like a treat for him and he gets variety
    My dogs get kibble, canned, raw medallions, or The Honest Kitchen. It really depends on what's thawed, what's available, etc. This morning both dogs had medallions with canned chicken, tonight it'll probably be kibble, tomorrow morning maybe THK with more canned chicken, etc. I mix it up.

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    Re: Papillons (Small breed dogs) - Need food advice - What do you feed?

    I have a shih tzu with a very sensitive stomach. He used to get very severe diarrhea with blood in it. The vet ran every test imaginable and we could never find out what was wrong. After doing some of my own investigating, I discovered that most dog foods with any kind of poultry product have a high chance of also having salmonella in them. Some dogs are very sensitive and don't have the ability to fight off the salmonella and get moderate to severe diarrhea. I decided to changed his diet and checked out every kind of dog food imaginable trying to find one without any poultry or corn (corn is just a useless filler and has no nutritional value for the dog). I now only feed him Sold Gold (the kind with lamb) and he hasn't had any problems since. This food doesn't have any chicken or corn in it and is organic. It might be worth a try!

  20. #19
    Member sachi's Avatar
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    Re: Papillons (Small breed dogs) - Need food advice - What do you feed?

    Today my dogs just got the Healthy Select Enzymes and Probiotics - no Daily Best. But they didnt poop this morning before I went to work. (We'll see what kind of surprises I get when I go home) My plan is to try to find a high quality dry kibble/canned that they both like and do well on. Then I'm going to try adding in some dehydrated/Ziwipeak/premade raw. My box of samples and trial bags that I ordered from Luke's should be coming in today. I cant wait to see everything.

    To those that give a variety of food to their dogs - how often do you change their diets? Daily? Weekly? Each meal? Rotate between dry, canned, raw, and dehydrated? Are you dogs tummy's okay with that? Do you guys buy different brands of dry and canned foods? Or stick to the same brand?

    Thanks again for all the replies. Any advice is greatly appreciated.


    Another thing - my girl loves carrots and apples. My boy will eat one or two pieces then just spit out the rest. He does the trick and wants the attention not the food. This morning I was eating a banana and offered some to them. My boy took his piece and spit it out - the girl ate both their pieces. My son dropped a few cherrios and the dogs walk passed them about 5 times before the girl finally ate one.

  21. #20
    Senior Member lucidity's Avatar
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    Re: Papillons (Small breed dogs) - Need food advice - What do you feed?

    Quote Originally Posted by calpapmom11 View Post
    Lucidity, you said you give Cadence salmon oil to help with shedding and coat. Is that a capsule or do you put that on the food? Does it give Cadence really fishy breath? Calvin has been shedding like crazy the last month or so. I was thinking he was going to have this amazing coat. Now I'm thinking he is going to be a naked pap if this doesn't quit soon.
    I get the human capsules. He loves loves loves them. I make him do tricks to get it so he thinks the salmon oil capsules are treats Nope, it doesn't affect his breath at all.. for some reason, only feeding him raw affects his breath. I have to brush his teeth on the days he gets raw because ewww his breath stinks after! How old is Calvin now? He might be shedding his puppy fur... Cadence sheds a LOT during spring and fall (like right now). In winter he barely sheds at all. The salmon oil helps a bit with the shedding but mostly with the quality of his coat. Without the oil his coat is pretty dry.

    Quote Originally Posted by LazyGRanch713 View Post
    My dogs get kibble, canned, raw medallions, or The Honest Kitchen. It really depends on what's thawed, what's available, etc. This morning both dogs had medallions with canned chicken, tonight it'll probably be kibble, tomorrow morning maybe THK with more canned chicken, etc. I mix it up.
    Lol, Cadence gets a whole bunch of random things too And he gets table scraps. I know it's bad, but oh well. He NEVER begs. All he does is sit at my feet and stare at me intently... so I give him some. His favourite food is plain steamed white rice. Haha, weird dog. I've been thinking of feeding him THK in the future.. is it expensive?
    Lucidity's Papillons & Cavaliers

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