Feeding Raw - Where to Start?

[RonE]

Let's limit this thread to links and advice - especially for those of us who want to explore the possibilities of feeding raw. Let's start with the assumption that we all want whats best for our dogs and look at this as a possible option.

Since this will be a sticky, any off-topic posts will be deleted.

[Wimble Woof]

Here are some good info beginner links.
My usual I post.


http://www.njboxers.com/faqs.htm great beginners site.
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/
great forum to join
More great sites.
http://members.shaw.ca/tamgarboxers/...ted_Links.html
http://www.shirleys-wellness-cafe.com/sampleraw.htm
http://www.barfworld.com/
http://www.canadasguidetodogs.com/he...ition_food.htm
http://rawfed.com/
http://www.rawdogranch.com/rawdietbasics.htm Follow the links on the lower left hand side of the site.

Prey model raw links
http://www.geocities.com/havens_home/feedraw.htm

[briteday]

How much to feed...
http://www.boneapetit.ca/feedchart.html

Nutrition Info...
http://home.earthlink.net/~pawsreflect/nutrition.html

Co-ops, sources, diets, supplements...
http://www.dogaware.com/dogfeeding.html#co-ops

[borzoimom]

go here to get started.. http://www.dogforums.com/5-dog-food-...structual.html (Feeding raw- two instructual videos)

[briteday]

Please do not add to this sticky unless you are sharing websites.

Open a new thread if you have specific questions regarding raw feeding.

[DogsforMe]

www.rawmeatybones.com/diet/exp-diet-guide.pdf

[Breeogie]

I fed my dogs raw food for three years, and would definitely recommend it if you're willing to deal with some of the hassle. Remember, meat doesn't travel well, dogs can't switch from raw to kibble (so you pretty much have to pick one) and raw meat is fairly expensive.

Some tips I can offer are:
If you don't feed bones, feed bone meal. Dogs, in the wild, would eat the whole thing after all.
Don't feed rice or other grains. Dogs can't digest them.
Don't bother cooking veggies or fruit that you feed.
Give you dogs some supplements. While I disagree that your dog needs his own cabinet full of vitamins and minerals, I strongly believe in feeding fish oils for a healthy brain (for humans too) and flax seed oil (also good for you, by the way).
Finally, grown dogs will need to eat 2-3% of their body weight in meat every day, while puppies need about 10%.
That's pretty much the gist of it; there are plenty of sites out there with plenty of information, but I thought I'd throw something a little more abbreviated out there.
I'll be more than happy to answer any more questions. I've read the books and the sites, I can probably save you hours of valuable time.

[BoxMeIn21]

dogs can't switch from raw to kibble (so you pretty much have to pick one) and raw meat is fairly expensive.

I think this all relative. Some dogs can switch back and forth between kibble and raw. And raw meat is not always expensive. Just do your research.

[briteday]

Please be informed about "enhanced chicken" that contains as much as 15% salt water by weight. You have to read the fine print on the labels to find this information.

Here is some info on daily requirements, deficiency, and toxicity for sodium in dogs (table salt is sodium chloride in proper proportions):

American College of Veterinary Nutrition states:

"Daily sodium and chloride requirements in dogs...

In general, the chloride requirement is 1.5 times the sodium requirement. This is because most of the sodium and chloride come from salt, and by weight, salt provides 1.5 times more chloride than sodium. Adult dog foods should contain at least 0.06% sodium and 0.09% chloride (on a dry matter basis). Puppy foods should contain 5 times that much. Kitten and cat foods should contain at least 0.2% sodium and 0.3% chloride (on a dry matter basis).

Sodium and chloride deficiency

A dietary deficiency of sodium and chloride would be extremely rare because most pets today are fed commercial pet foods. A sodium or chloride deficiency is more likely to occur because of an excess loss of these two minerals from the body. This can result from prolonged (or chronic) severe diarrhea and/or vomiting. This can be a very serious condition and animals with prolonged vomiting or diarrhea should be seen by a veterinarian.

Sodium and chloride toxicity

Sodium and chloride toxicity generally does not occur in normal animals with access to good quality drinking water. Any excess intake of sodium or chloride is filtered through the kidneys and excreted into the urine. If good drinking water is not provided, however, the concentrations of sodium and chloride can become too high. Signs of sodium chloride toxicity include seizures, blindness, dehydration, loss of appetite, and death within 24 hours."

Then, since I love documentation:

COMMITTEE ON NUTRIENT REQUIREMENTS OF DOGS AND CATS
DONALD C. BEITZ, Chair, Iowa State University
JOHN E. BAUER, Texas A&M University
KEITH C. BEHNKE, Kansas State University
DAVID A. DZANIS, Dzanis Consulting & Collaborations
GEORGE C. FAHEY, University Of Illinois
RICHARD C. HILL, University Of Florida
FRANCIS A. KALLFELZ, Cornell University
ELLEN KIENZLE, Zentrum Für Lebensmittel Und Tierernährung, Oberschleissheim, Germany
JAMES G. MORRIS, University Of California, Davis
QUINTON R. ROGERS, University Of California, Davis

(this is a varied group of individual who are nationally recognized at the university level)

"100 mg of sodium per day for a 33 pound dog, daily"

Just for perspective...15% enhanced salt in 4 oz of chicken is 180 milligrams of salt.

This equates to ... for every pound (16 ounces) of chicken, by weight, 2.4 ounces is salt water. Or...if you are paying $0.50 per pound for that bag of enhanced chicken thighs you are paying 7.5 cents for salt water, per pound...that equates to 75 cents for a 10 pound bag...for salt water.

[DogsforMe]

I think this all relative. Some dogs can switch back and forth between kibble and raw. And raw meat is not always expensive. Just do your research.

My dogs mostly eat kibble plus extras including raw meaty bones at least 3 times per week. I would like to feed totally raw but its not always conveinient. I have heard that it's best to feed kibble & raw in separate meals. Kibble doesn't digest as quickly as meat & bones.
An excellent link is www.rawfed.com/myths/index.html

[Robyn B.]

I feed my dog Jake and Daisey's Raw Food. Some people prefer to make their own food for their dogs, but Jake and Daisey's is great, and simple.. plus its isnt that pricey! They are also already pre-packaged in 1lbs vaccuum packed 'baggies.' You keep it frozen, and de-thaw the ones you are using the day of. They have a great variety of different meats they use; chicken, beef, pork, turkey, buffalo... and all of them have fruits and veggies mixed in for extra nutrients Its also great to throw in some oils or flax seed or eggs once in a while.
And you are supposed to feed your dog 2% of its own body weight if you are feeding raw.

[MoonStr80]

I found few good sites I looked over from other dog forums I am on & yahoo groups etc
Switching to Raw
A Raw Deal
Article from B Natural - Raw Diet

[myminpins]

http://www.totallyrawdogfood.com/

[rosemaryninja]

Great beginner's sites:
http://www.raw-dog-food-diet.com/
http://www.rawlearning.com/
http://www.dogaware.com/wdjhomemade5.html
http://www.kaossiberians.com/rawfeeding.html
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Further reading:
http://www.woodhavenlabs.com/documents/feeding-raw.pdf
http://www.woodhavenlabs.com/barf-myth.html
http://www.workingdogs.com/portal/ht...cle.php?sid=33
http://www.secondchanceranch.com/tra...eat/index.html
http://www.secondchanceranch.org/tra...stimonies.html
http://www.secondchanceranch.org/tra..._meat/faq.html
http://www.vetinfo.com/drawmeat.html
http://www.wellpet.org/nutrition/naturaldiet.htm
http://home.att.net/~wdcusick/raw.html
http://www.provet.co.uk/petfacts/healthtips/meat.htm
http://www.belfield.com/article11.html
http://www.startribune.com/stories/389/3137272.html
http://life.ca/nl/83/pets.html
http://www.thepetcenter.com/imtop/wolfexrep.html
http://www.greatdanelady.com/article...w_diet_htm.htm
http://www.darlenearden.com/articlediet.htm

Information on raw diets and epileptic dogs:
http://www.canine-epilepsy-guardian-...s_Raw_Food.htm

[RetrieverGirl41]

Start SLOWLY!!!! Ease him into the raw foods.....Maybe even start with home cooked first then start adding some raw.

[sirilucky]

I found a site in google that helps dispelling some of the many myths about dogs, wolves, and feeding raw meaty bones to our pets. And here is the site
http://www.rawfed.com/myths/

Hope this helps most of us.

[DobManiac]

http://www.b-naturals.com/newsletter...ge=May2006.php

[phoebespeople]

We started Phoebe on an all raw food diet at 7 weeks old, cold turkey (literally!). We started with ground chicken backs and necks, ground turkey necks and green lamb tripe. She gets kelp/alphalfa powder and salmon oil in her breakfast and an egg yolk every other day. We introduced beef heart, beef and organ blend, chicken and organ blend, turkey and organ blend, ground duck, lamb and organ blend, whole tukey necks, whole chicken backs and necks, and sardines in water. She gets beef marrow bones every couple of days as well. We are going to start buying whole chickens and turkeys (the tough cheap ones for $1.00-$1.50/lb), meaty pork neck bones, beef heart, and whatever organs are on sale at the meat counter. We'll cut the chickens and turkeys into one lb chunks.
Here are our guidelines:
A balanced diet over the course of a week is fine, balanced individual meals is not necessary. Variety is the key.
Alphalfa/kelp powder and salmon oil daily, and green tripe once a week is a MUST.
NO cooking, NO salt, NO grains, NO smoked bones.
Don't worry about raw bones. Raw bones crumble, cooked bones splinter.
Don't worry about you dog choking on chunks of raw meat and bones. Dogs are natural masters of regurgitation, if it's too big of a chunk, they will bring it back up and try again.
Raw dog food averages to about $2.00/lb. Phoebe eats about 1lb per day now that she's a full grown adult (50lbs). That equals about $60.00/month. That is way cheaper that premium kibble.
http://www.buddiesnaturalpetfood.ca/
Here is a link to Buddies Natural Pet Food in Victoria (Saanich).
Have a look at thier Raw Info .pdf
http://www.buddiesnaturalpetfood.ca/...FO__july08.pdf
and their Dog Menu
http://www.buddiesnaturalpetfood.ca/...deJUNE2008.pdf
They are an excellent resource, most of what they sell you can find yourself at the butcher.
Also, check out the meal calculator at totallyrawdogfood.com,
http://www.totallyrawdogfood.com/MealCalculator.aspx

Feeding your dog raw food is the best thing you can do for your dog.

[daveduz]

was just curious if someone could give me a couple of hints i have been feeding raw for about 3 to 4 weeks now and nothing but positive results here is my menu for my dog turkey neck in the morning and ground chicken backs, puree spinach, carrots, and a little apple with a few squirts of grizzly salmon oil. he is doing great he tended to shy away from my organ mixture that my butcher gave me after a week. however he loves the turkey and chicken. any insight would be much appreciated, thanks in advance.
dave

[briteday]

Look in the stickies in the dog food forum. There is plenty of info on how to start feeding raw. Most of us started on whole chickens, cut up, for the first 2-4 weeks, gradually introducing chicken organs. Once a dog has gone 7 days without any gi distress on chicken then you can add one new species per week, icluding that specie's organ meat at a ratio of 10%. If you are unsure of what 10% looks like for each meal buy a small digital postal scale, I got mine at Costco and use it daily since I have small dogs. Once your dog has mastered all of the species you intend to feed, without issues, then you can mix and match a daily menu as you please. There is also a sticky of average daily menues so you can see what other people are feeding.

It is very important that you get yourself familiar with calciumhosphorus ratios, vitamins provided by various organs, essential amino acids only found in certain foods, and how to find the best meat you can afford with relationship to omega 3:6 balance. Raw feeding is not about cruising the grocery aisles to see what you can find this week, until your dog is established in the diet. More people stop raw feeding because they never got the proper start. Or they go in for a vet check and fnd out their dog is horribly deficient in something simple like calcium.

Hint: most of us started with whole chickens until we figured out the rest because a whole chicken, fed over a few days, is one of the most perfect calcium : phosphorus ratios that nature created...easy to get things right until you have a chance to read more.

Turkey necks and chicken backs have too much bone (calcium) to be a balanced meal. You need to feed some additional muscle meat to balance out the phosphorus. Frankly, if you choose to only serve certain parts of any animal you are depriving your dog of the variety of nutrients found in the entire animal. I realize that most of us can't feed a whole cow over time. But we can certainly find whole chickens so that they benefit from the nutrients found in the dark meat, fat, white meat, etc. Try to think of feeding prey model (do a google search) so that your dog gets the benefits of many parts of the animal.

Dogs do not possess the enzyme necessary to break down plant cell walls. So if you choose to feed veg / fruit you need to blenderize / pulverize (break the cell wals so the nutrients can be released) the heck out of it first. Some of us choose not to feed any plant or grains. Personal choice.

And always remember that a bad raw diet is far worse than a good kibble diet.