Question about Science Diet (recall related)
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Thread: Question about Science Diet (recall related)

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    Senior Member FaithFurMom09's Avatar
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    Question Question about Science Diet (recall related)

    There is a guy at the dog park (and actually hes about to be my landlord ) and hes super sweet and hes older...anyway he swears up and down Science Diet has never had a recall and they are the best dog food. I tried to tell him that surely they have had 1 recall at least and that its an awfully expensive food and he could find a cheaper one with good ingredients (he has 4 dogs as well). He said hes not switching because of the no recall thing.

    So has there been a recall? If there is/has been can you link me to it so i can show him?
    Jen, Furmom to:
    Faith- Lab & Golden w/Shepherd
    Hope- Lab
    Elvin- Lab & Husky w/Wire Haired Pointer
    Opie- Beagle w/?

    Harvey- Waiting at the Rainbow Bridge

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    Senior Member Pawzk9's Avatar
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    Re: Question about Science Diet (recall related)

    Quote Originally Posted by FaithFurMom09 View Post
    There is a guy at the dog park (and actually hes about to be my landlord ) and hes super sweet and hes older...anyway he swears up and down Science Diet has never had a recall and they are the best dog food. I tried to tell him that surely they have had 1 recall at least and that its an awfully expensive food and he could find a cheaper one with good ingredients (he has 4 dogs as well). He said hes not switching because of the no recall thing.

    So has there been a recall? If there is/has been can you link me to it so i can show him?
    http://www.accessdata.fda.gov/script...20DIET&pet=Cat
    It's cat food, but made by SD

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    Senior Member WestieLove's Avatar
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    Re: Question about Science Diet (recall related)

    Why do people feel the need to be so pushy when it comes to getting people to feed a "better" food. Honestly SD here is quite affordable compared to other diets which are overpriced IMO. It's not THAT bad of a food, there is honestly a lot worse out there. If the dogs are doing great on it then I see no reason to switch them. They've had very few recalls over the years compared to other food companies.

    I've fed Hills/Science diet for YEARS without a problem to dogs with food allergies and skin conditions. It's improved the situation compared to diets they'd been fed before. So if its working for this guy and the dogs look great (healthy, ideal body condition etc.) then leave it alone!

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    Senior Member Goldens&Labs4Me's Avatar
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    Re: Question about Science Diet (recall related)

    Quote Originally Posted by WestieLove View Post
    Why do people feel the need to be so pushy when it comes to getting people to feed a "better" food. Honestly SD here is quite affordable compared to other diets which are overpriced IMO. It's not THAT bad of a food, there is honestly a lot worse out there. If the dogs are doing great on it then I see no reason to switch them. They've had very few recalls over the years compared to other food companies.

    I've fed Hills/Science diet for YEARS without a problem to dogs with food allergies and skin conditions. It's improved the situation compared to diets they'd been fed before. So if its working for this guy and the dogs look great (healthy, ideal body condition etc.) then leave it alone!
    I agree. The man is happy with the product & he is feeding his dogs. Good for him. I don't see the problem or the need to pressure him to something else.

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    Re: Question about Science Diet (recall related)

    In the U.S., Science Diet is pretty darn expensive. And the ingredients read about the same as Purina Dog Chow (which also apparently has never had a recall, although Purina ONE did). Might as well save the dough and get the Dog Chow, if that's the quality you're looking for.

    Compare for yourself:
    Science Diet: http://www.hillspet.com/products/ha-...rofile=DEFAULT
    Dog Chow (sorry, Purina website wasn't working for me. I don't know if this is the most recent ingredient list or not):
    http://www.dogfoodanalysis.com/dog_f...t=1843&cat=all

    I agree that getting too pushy is obnoxious, but it sounds like he was being pushy, too! Doesn't hurt to mention that you can get a better food for a better price.
    Last edited by Willowy; 05-18-2012 at 02:46 PM.

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    Senior Member WestieLove's Avatar
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    Re: Question about Science Diet (recall related)

    Prices vary depending on area and I have seen it cheaper in the U.S

    It may look like exactly the same ingredient list to you but here are the differences I see. The ingredients are based on weight.
    Therefore Purina Dog Chow:
    - contains mostly corn (listed first and again later again)
    - contains meat and bone meal
    - animal digest
    - atificial colouring

    The website used to evaluate the Purina Dog Chow is not fully accurtate in its information. It talks about corn and soy as main causing ingredients of food allergies. While its true an allergy can be developed to these ingredients the most common food allergies are to the protein source in the food (so chicken, lamb, beef etc.). Other allergies can be wheat, egg, potato etc. less commonly seen is soy and corn.

    Next, you have Science Diet which contains chicken by-product meal, brewers rice, wheat and corn.
    - No artificial colours
    - No unnamed sources of fat or "meat meal"
    - Yes it contains chicken by-product meal which is contributing to the main protein content of the food ... well here is a nice debate I found regarding chicken by-product vs. chicken meal vs. chicken http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/germ...221991&pagen=1

    Purina Dog Chow does not come close to comparing to Science Diet in my profesisonal opinion. Those are two very different ingredient lists and two very different quality of sources for ingredients. Just keep in mind your first souce in "high quality" foods listed as "chicken" is 80% water.

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    Re: Question about Science Diet (recall related)

    Sure, but when you see "chicken, chicken meal" as the first 2 ingredients, you know the food probably has a decent amount of chicken protein. I wouldn't buy a food with just "chicken" (like Purina ONE) in the top 5 ingredients.

    Oddly, I've had 2 dogs who were/are allergic to corn (or at least this seems to be the problem. I never had tests done since it's so easy to avoid) and none who showed allergies to meat protein. Corn has quite a lot of protein, too, and is probably the main protein source in both of those foods.

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    Senior Member InkedMarie's Avatar
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    Re: Question about Science Diet (recall related)

    WestieLove, you said in your professional opinion; what is your occupation? Also, corn and soy ARE high allergens. With Science Diet, the ingredients are not good. For the money, you can get a much better food. Sure, maybe the dog is doing fine on it but they may do just as well, if not better, on a food with higher quality ingredients. Dogs eat Ol Roy and survive; doesn't mean they should eat it.

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    Senior Member WestieLove's Avatar
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    Re: Question about Science Diet (recall related)

    Quote Originally Posted by InkedMarie View Post
    WestieLove, you said in your professional opinion; what is your occupation? Also, corn and soy ARE high allergens. With Science Diet, the ingredients are not good. For the money, you can get a much better food. Sure, maybe the dog is doing fine on it but they may do just as well, if not better, on a food with higher quality ingredients. Dogs eat Ol Roy and survive; doesn't mean they should eat it.
    I'm a registered veterinary technologist and I love nutrition and emergency medicine. Dogs can develop an allergy to any protein source. A food allergy is an immune-mediated negative reaction to food. The most common reaction tend to be to chicken, beef, dairy and wheat and these seem to be the most common. Yes, dogs can develop an allergy to corn, soy or even potato but I wouldn't call them the most common. As an owner of a breed that are known for their allergy problems - I have only one dog that I feed a diet to that does not contain chicken, wheat, dairy products because he has an actual veterinary diagnosed food allergy to specific foods so he is fed Purina Veterinary Diet's DRM (dermatological management).

    There is a large difference between the quality of Ol' Roy and Science Diet. Its still two very different ingredients and quality.

    Definitions:
    Chicken: Carcass without offal but including bones
    Deboned: The flesh resulting from removal of bones by mechanical deboning. Only four bones are removed - bones like neck and ribs are still included.
    By-product: Secondary products produced in addition to the principal product. Viscera of mammals and chicken which can include: esophagus, heart, liver, spleen, stomach, crop, gizzards and intestines but not instesintal contents. Does not include beaks, feathers or feet.
    Meal: ingredient that has been ground or otherwise reduced in size. Basically a ground and dehydrated ingredient.
    Holisitic: No definition. Anyone can use this word to describe anything about their food.
    Human Grade: AAFCO declares this term to be false and misleading in March 2004.
    Organic: the ingredient must quality as organic as regulated by the USDA. An organic pet food must contain over 95% organic ingredients. Companies will often insert "made with" a single organic ingredient to have this word printed on the label.
    Natural: A feed or ingredient derived solely from plant, animal or mined sources either in its processed state or having been subjected to physical processing, heat processing, rendering, pruification, extraction, hydrolysis, enzymolysis or fermentation but NOT having been produced by or subject to a chemically synthetic process and not containing any additives or processing aids that are chemically synthetic except in amounts that might occur unavoidably in good manufacturing process. -- according to this chicken by-products are considered natural--

    Ingredient panels go by weight. Feeding an ingredient that says "chicken" you are getting about 80% water content. Feeding a by-product or a meal the water content is reduced and the protein increased. Just because its listed first does not mean its the main ingredient in the food. Those are the longest list of definitions I have ever had to type out. Therefore comparing Ol' Roy or Purina Dog Chow to Science Diet is like comparing McDonalds to Swiss Chalet. Science diet its a named source of organ meats which has less of a water content than say "chicken" so its providing more of a nutritional source then relying on other ingredients like "corn" or "potato."

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    Re: Question about Science Diet (recall related)

    I guss I'm not sure how Science Diet's "chicken by-product meal" is better quality than Dog Chow's "chicken by-product meal"? I also don't know of any foods with only a named meat and no meat meal (except Purina ONE). Although I'm sure I could find more if I looked. But I'm not sure what you're trying to to prove by that, because we all agree that the meat with the water weight included really ends up farther down the list once it's actually in the kibble.

    I do agree that "meat and bone meal" and "animal digest" are trash, and artificial colorings are bad news, so on that account Dog Chow is worse. But the combined grain content of SD (what, 6 grains listed after the meat protein?) just doesn't justify the premium price tag. Plus, if we're going by results, a lot of the dogs I know on SD are smelly and have goopy ears (same things happen to my dogs when they're on a lower-quality food). One dog I know was switched from SD to Dog Chow and nothing changed.

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    Senior Member Mheath0429's Avatar
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    Re: Question about Science Diet (recall related)

    WestieLove, I hate to break it to you but the vast majority of veterinarians and vet techs are very ignorant to the nutritional needs of dogs. I'm taking courses to become a vet tech, the majority of my courses say nothing about nutrition. However, I do know that vets get a lot of kick backs from companies if they sell their food. SD is one of these companies along with Royal Canin (another mediocre, at best, dog food) and many others.

    Your dog does well on it now because all of the fillers allow for firm stool and existence. However, so does McDonalds, but I don't eat there for every meal. SD, Purina, Ol Roy...all of these are like the fast food versions of dog food.

    Now, In my professional opinion, I would much rather feed a 4 - 5 start dog food than a 2 star dog food. BTW, SD is a 2 star food. This is a great website that indicates the quality of kibble http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/dog-food-reviews/dry/

    My Siberian Huskies eat Acana - Wild Praire and VERY high quality food that has never been recalled and Grandma Lucy's Pureformance Chicken - A very high quality freeze dried dog food. I have them on food that not only cost THE SAME as SD, but it is so much better for them it's ridiculous.

    In case you want to investigate your food and decide if it's the healthiest choice you can afford here is a link http://members.petfinder.com/~CA469/...oodRatings.pdf

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    Senior Member WestieLove's Avatar
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    Re: Question about Science Diet (recall related)

    Quote Originally Posted by Mheath0429 View Post
    WestieLove, I hate to break it to you but the vast majority of veterinarians and vet techs are very ignorant to the nutritional needs of dogs. I'm taking courses to become a vet tech, the majority of my courses say nothing about nutrition. However, I do know that vets get a lot of kick backs from companies if they sell their food. SD is one of these companies along with Royal Canin (another mediocre, at best, dog food) and many others.

    Your dog does well on it now because all of the fillers allow for firm stool and existence. However, so does McDonalds, but I don't eat there for every meal. SD, Purina, Ol Roy...all of these are like the fast food versions of dog food.

    Now, In my professional opinion, I would much rather feed a 4 - 5 start dog food than a 2 star dog food. BTW, SD is a 2 star food. This is a great website that indicates the quality of kibble http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/dog-food-reviews/dry/

    My Siberian Huskies eat Acana - Wild Praire and VERY high quality food that has never been recalled and Grandma Lucy's Pureformance Chicken - A very high quality freeze dried dog food. I have them on food that not only cost THE SAME as SD, but it is so much better for them it's ridiculous.

    In case you want to investigate your food and decide if it's the healthiest choice you can afford here is a link http://members.petfinder.com/~CA469/...oodRatings.pdf
    Prices vary according to region, so your price for SD and the price the person in the original post pay may be two very different prices.
    You will also learn each individual does differently on a food. Some dogs may not do well on SD, others don't do well on BB, others don't do well on Wellness, TOTW, Orijen or Natual Balance etc. You need to find a food that will suit that dogs needs. My westie did not do well on BB, Wellness or Natural Balance. Do I call those bad foods as a result? No. It just simply did not work for him, just as SD did not work for your dogs but does for mine.

    Vet's get no benefit from those companies for selling those foods, you learn that once you start handling the management side of things. I had been teaching myself about nutrition long before I went to school to become a technician. I am hoping it will become one of my specialties. Each technician program is also different, I had dedicated nutrition courses, as well as nutrition touched on in detail in other courses. I also continue to do continuing education in the field of nutrition to keep myself up to date.

    Why quote a website like the Dog Food Advisor who has ZERO background in animal nutrition? The only thing he is going off is the same information available on the internet as everyone else. He is rating dog foods based on its ingredients NOT based on the nutrients those ingredients provide. There is so much he does NOT take into account when evaluating a diet.
    Don't raw feeders feed organ meat? That is exactly what "by product meal" is according to AAFCO ... so raw feeders that feed organ meats in the diet are feeding [insert type of animal] by product.

    To the last link that rates the dog food. A company will put anything they can on a label to sell the food. Even the "high quality" commerical foods. "holistic" means nothing to AAFCO. You are not going to know if your food has been tested for pesticides or if the animal sources are hormone and antibiotic free. You'd really be paying a nice price tag on those foods if they were. You can call a company and ask those questions but getting the truthful answer will be the next thing.

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    Re: Question about Science Diet (recall related)

    .......................
    Last edited by TTs Towel; 09-28-2013 at 10:08 PM.

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    Senior Member Gally's Avatar
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    Re: Question about Science Diet (recall related)

    Quote Originally Posted by TTs Towel View Post
    Your first statement seems kinda ignorant to me - how does a person in SCHOOL to become a technician know about the knowledge of the "vast majority of veterinarians"

    I seen this on a lot of forums (bout the kickback). Any proof here or just internet hooey?
    If a vet is recommending a food that they sell in their office then yes they are making money off of that food. Major dog food companies like SD also sponsor veterinary nutrition courses so they can promote their brand through vets.

    http://www.law.uchicago.edu/animallaw/studentresearch
    http://www.truthaboutpetfood.com/art...-blasting.html

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    Re: Question about Science Diet (recall related)

    They don't get "kickbacks", but of course they get the food at wholesale prices and sell it at retail prices so they do make money on it.

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    Re: Question about Science Diet (recall related)

    .......................
    Last edited by TTs Towel; 09-28-2013 at 10:07 PM.

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    Senior Member Gally's Avatar
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    Re: Question about Science Diet (recall related)

    It's a problem for me when they are not well educated in nutrition yet still recommend and sell low quality foods. Most vets are much more knowledgeable about medication than they are about nutrition. Obviously they don't get "kickbacks" but I wish they didn't have these sale deals with SD and other low quality food compianies. A vet is in a position of trust and power when it comes to the health of our animals, by recommending inferior food they are breaking that trust in my opinion.

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    Re: Question about Science Diet (recall related)

    .......................
    Last edited by TTs Towel; 09-28-2013 at 10:07 PM.

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    Senior Member Gally's Avatar
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    Re: Question about Science Diet (recall related)

    I don't got to my vet for nutrition and he has never tried to push any food products on me but so many times I have read on here and other forums about people being recommended SD, Purina and other products by their vet as the "best" food for their dog. The average dog owner doesn't always know that vets are not as well educated in dog nutrition as they would like them to be.

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    Re: Question about Science Diet (recall related)

    A lot of people trust their vet's advice on anything. A lot of posts on here even. . .someone's vet says they should rub their puppy's nose in his mess, so they do. . .someone's vet says their dog is a certain breed so they believe it (even if the guess is totally random). . .someone's vet says X breed is dangerous. . .someone's vet says their puppy is "dominant" and they need to be harsh. . .and some vets are veryvery pushy about Science Diet!. . .et cetera. So people should be reminded that general practice vets aren't nutritionists, or behaviorists, or breed experts, or trainers.

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