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Old 06-07-2009, 07:20 PM   #41
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Re: Wolf at the dog park?

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Originally Posted by tirluc View Post
actually, looks very much like the coy-dog i had.....she was smaller than that one but we're not sure what the cross was (the vet thought sm husky).....Ki was only about 30# at full weight......she really resembled the coyote, tho
That's what I was thinking. I can definitely see some Coyote in there.
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Old 06-07-2009, 08:16 PM   #42
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Re: Wolf at the dog park?

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yeah thats not a husky, that is a wolf! Or at least part wolf.
Whatever it is, it's at least four months older now.
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Old 06-08-2009, 01:01 AM   #43
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Re: Wolf at the dog park?

Holy crap. a bit scary.
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Old 06-08-2009, 06:54 AM   #44
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Re: Wolf at the dog park?

Content level aside, I'm confused as to why you feel this dog shouldn't be allowed in a dog park.

If he's obviously playing by biting the neck, and not hurting, whats the problem? My two puppies grab eachother by the neck and ears all the time.
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Old 06-08-2009, 07:14 AM   #45
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Re: Wolf at the dog park?

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Originally Posted by tw1n View Post
Content level aside, I'm confused as to why you feel this dog shouldn't be allowed in a dog park.

If he's obviously playing by biting the neck, and not hurting, whats the problem? My two puppies grab eachother by the neck and ears all the time.
IMO it should not be at the DP because it is not a dog
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Old 06-08-2009, 07:19 AM   #46
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Re: Wolf at the dog park?

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IMO it should not be at the DP because it is not a dog
a wolfdog is not a dog?

I guess they could make a wolf park... and like the 1 wolf can play by itself.... or would it have to be a wolfdog park 'cause he's not pure wolf? :P

I'd rather have someone bring a well behaved wolf than a mean dog to the dog park.

Last edited by tw1n; 06-08-2009 at 07:24 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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Old 06-08-2009, 07:25 AM   #47
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Re: Wolf at the dog park?

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Originally Posted by tw1n View Post
a wolfdog is not a dog?

I guess they could make a wolf park... and like the 1 wolf can play by itself.... or would it have to be a wolfdog park 'cause he's not pure wolf? :P

No its a wolf/dog hybrid


and No you would not make a wolf park......you would have a habitat under the control/supervisor of a qualified professional

well behaved wolf...LOL
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Old 06-08-2009, 07:27 AM   #48
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Re: Wolf at the dog park?

So the poor hybrids have to be lonely and unsocialized?
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Old 06-08-2009, 07:32 AM   #49
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Re: Wolf at the dog park?

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So the poor hybrids have to be lonely and unsocialized?
The only way to socialize is at the DP?...what do you think the owners of PB do?...well the responsible ones anyway

I don't think the average person should even own wolf/dog mixes let alone bring then to the DP
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Old 06-08-2009, 07:40 AM   #50
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Re: Wolf at the dog park?

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The only way to socialize is at the DP?...what do you think the owners of PB do?...well the responsible ones anyway

I don't think the average person should even own wolf/dog mixes let alone bring then to the DP
All I'm saying is I'd rather have an under control pure wolf than and out of control chiuhaha at the DP.

And I see nothing wrong with an under control pb at a dog park either.
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Old 06-08-2009, 08:09 AM   #51
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Re: Wolf at the dog park?

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Originally Posted by tw1n View Post
All I'm saying is I'd rather have an under control pure wolf than and out of control chiuhaha at the DP.

And I see nothing wrong with an under control pb at a dog park either.

Considering that wolfs are wild animals .....I'm not sure how much "control" a person can have over them...how many times have we seen trainers, handlers, researchers injured by the animals that they work with on a daily basis?...no IMO they do not belong at the DP nor do they need to be owned by novices ....but I also agree that I don't want an out of control chihuahua at the DP ether...but we can't even trust people not to bring those so why would I trust someone with a wolf?

Why not to bring a PB to the DP has been discussed multiple times so I really don't want to Hijack this thread ....there are quite a few good reasons...mostly to protect the PB
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Old 06-08-2009, 08:35 AM   #52
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Re: Wolf at the dog park?

I'm just saying the dog breed shouln't matter, it's how under control they are.

I personally feel that they should be chaperoned. Like a Doggy Life Guard. If they see an out of control dog they boot them from the park. So if wolf dog is behaved, wolfdog can stay.
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Old 06-08-2009, 08:47 AM   #53
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Re: Wolf at the dog park?

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Originally Posted by tw1n View Post
I'm just saying the dog breed shouln't matter, it's how under control they are.

I personally feel that they should be chaperoned. Like a Doggy Life Guard. If they see an out of control dog they boot them from the park. So if wolf dog is behaved, wolfdog can stay.
But breed does matter....as long as there is BSL and PB are being targeted then breed matters

In a perfect world all DP would have educated staff to help keep the DP running smoothly....but unfortunately most DP do not....from what I've seen many DP have a hard enough time as it is....throwing a wolf hybrid into the mix is a very big gamble IMO.....
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Old 06-08-2009, 08:49 AM   #54
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Re: Wolf at the dog park?

It'd sure be nice to have one of those perfect worlds.
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Old 06-08-2009, 08:50 AM   #55
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Re: Wolf at the dog park?

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It'd sure be nice to have one of those perfect worlds.
This I agree with 100%
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Old 06-08-2009, 10:19 AM   #56
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Re: Wolf at the dog park?

Wow, this thread has sure gotten out of hand! I don't even know where to start, there is so much misinformation and bias being slung around on this thread.

I work with wolfdogs ("wolf hybrids"). I have met dozens of them through my work in rescuing them - the real thing. I also own one (Jasper), and have fostered another in the past (Yuki). I'm fortunate to work with a great mentor who has over a decade experience with PURE wolves, and is helping me to volunteer working with them this summer.

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Holy crap. a bit scary.
Don't even know where to go with this one.

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IMO it should not be at the DP because it is not a dog
How much wolf (Canis lupus) has to be in the animal before it ceases to be a dog (Canis lupus familiaris - notice - subspecies of wolf)? Frankly from the photos, there is NOT much wolf in this dog, if any. Do you have experience with phenotyping wolfdogs, IDing them and telling them apart from wolfy-looking dog breeds (and I don't mean Huskies and Mals - I'm talking Tamaskans, Shikoku Ken, West Siberian Laika, Canadian Inuit Dogs, "village dogs", Seppala racing huskies)?

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I don't think the average person should even own wolf/dog mixes let alone bring then to the DP
Agreed that the average person should not own a wolfdog. These animals need extensive research and special care (diet, thorough socialization, containment needs, etc.). Bringing them to a dog park is another story - if the owner is responsible, and knows their wolfdog well (this is KEY) why not bring them? What are you so afraid the wolfdog might do that any normal dog couldn't (or wouldn't)? What is the essential difference here that wolfdogs possess that dogs absolutely do not?

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Considering that wolfs are wild animals .....I'm not sure how much "control" a person can have over them..
How much "control" do we EVER have over any animal? Is training really all about control, forcing the animal to submit? Or is it more about learning theory, and management of natural instincts and drives?

What side of the issue you fall on will likely influence your thoughts on wolfdogs to a great degree.

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throwing a wolf hybrid into the mix is a very big gamble IMO.....
Why is throwing a wolfdog into the mix a big gamble? Are they aggressive? Are they more likely to attack another dog unprovoked? When you take a generally timid, shy creature like a wolf and mix it with a pack-oriented, typically dog-friendly dog like a Husky, where does the dog-aggressive gene come from?

So, as usual, misinformation abounds. For those of you who made these posts, what personal experience do you have with wolfdogs ("wolf hybrids")? Or even pure wolves? Your statements are awfully opinionated so I hope you have some personal experience to back them up with.

This is why working with wolfdog rescue is so difficult. It's sure as hell not the animals - it's the people with uneducated opinions and bias against these dogs.

It's the woman at the shelter who, when asked about a wolfdog I'm going to pull, says, "Oh, that THING is still here? I thought it was supposed to be gone aleady." It's the vet who, upon seeing Willow for the first time, ignores her friendly tail wags and treats her like a dangerous dog, yanking and roughly slinging her around with the slip lead. It's another shelter worker who, after meeting an unsocialized, scared wolfdog who I wanted to send through rescue, calls the dog a "feral, wild thing" and, after assuring me she would be safe until rescue could pull her the next day, proceeds to PUT HER TO SLEEP. Through absolutely NO fault of her own.

Because the lives of these animals are literally at stake - through people perpetuating myths and vague fears, which feed ban laws and BSL - there is no way I can just leave these statements alone on a public forum.

Last edited by nekomi; 06-08-2009 at 10:47 AM.
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Old 06-08-2009, 11:07 AM   #57
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Re: Wolf at the dog park?

First of all slow down and chill out....I have not for one moment said anything disrespectfull about wolf/dogs...If I have offended you then I am sorry ...so please take your anger and frustration out on someone else.....when I say IMO I don't think wolfs should be at the DP its as much for the animals protection as anything else....I think you maybe confused regarding when I was talking about wolfs (pure) and wolf/dog mixes.

I did not say that the dog in the picture is a wolf/dog...and I never said that I could tell from site the difference .....so please go back and read my posts again......as for "Do you have experience with phenotyping wolfdogs"...no I do not because I don't need to .....I have not tired to do this and I will thank you for not accusing me of it.


Do I think that dogs and wolfs are the same animal...NO......is it possible that dogs came from wolfs thousands of years ago ?..maybe?...... I'm still reading about both sides of this argument......I really don't like the thought of breeding dogs and wolfs...no because I don't like wolfs or think they are evil...but because I love them and respect then and think they should be free and in the wild where they belong....I don't see a need at this time to be breeding them and if there is a good reason they need to be kept with people who know what they are doing..no the GP

I feel that taking a wolf or wolf dog to a DP is a gamble the same way taking a PB to the DP is a gamble.....if anything negative happened who do YOU think is going to end up with the short side of the stick?

Do I think a wolf/dog is more likely to attack then a regular dog....if put in a challenging position I have no idea .....its hard to guess what a wild animal would do in a setting such as a DP...I'm guessing that is not a natural habitat for a wolf...*I would also guess it depends on the % of the mix to a certain extent....Lots of strange dogs and humans running around in an excited state...through in food/toys/and a lot of owners who dogs don't have great manners or training (at least at the dp I have been to )..I'm guessing anything is possible

Do I think a wolf is more likely to attack then a Dog?....I would have to say yes...I would be more comfortable confronting a stray dog the if I ran into a wolf in the wild....No I don't think the wolf would automatically attack me (more then likely he would run away is my guess)....but I'm also not going to push my luck


Do I think wolf dogs are horrible eveil things?...hell no...just like I don't think PB are....I don't think they should be put down, I believe they should have a chance just like any other dog....they should go to good homes w/people who are experianced

Last edited by pugmom; 06-08-2009 at 11:11 AM.
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Old 06-08-2009, 11:15 AM   #58
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Re: Wolf at the dog park?

OK, I can see where you are coming from now, Pugmom. I'm sorry for my heated reaction, I thought you were coming from a completely different perspective.

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when I say IMO I don't think wolfs should be at the DP its as much for the animals protection as anything else
Quote:
I feel that taking a wolf or wolf dog to a DP is a gamble the same way taking a PB to the DP is a gamble.....if anything negative happened who do YOU think is going to end up with the short side of the stick?
I see what you were saying now - my apologies for misunderstanding. I completely agree with you on this, and was going to bring it up in my previous post but figured you were coming from a completely different perspective.

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.I don't see a need at this time to be breeding them and if there is a good reason they need to be kept with people who know what they are doing..
I agree with you, wolfdogs should not be bred - we have so many of them in rescue because of irresponsible breeding and people acquiring them without knowing what they're doing.

Thank you for taking the time to respond, again I'm really sorry about the misunderstanding. I've run across so many bad attitudes regarding these animals that I guess I am a little jaded, and quick to jump the gun. Again, my apologies.
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Old 06-08-2009, 11:18 AM   #59
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Re: Wolf at the dog park?

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OK, I can see where you are coming from now, Pugmom. I'm sorry for my heated reaction, I thought you were coming from a completely different perspective.





I see what you were saying now - my apologies for misunderstanding. I completely agree with you on this, and was going to bring it up in my previous post but figured you were coming from a completely different perspective.



I agree with you, wolfdogs should not be bred - we have so many of them in rescue because of irresponsible breeding and people acquiring them without knowing what they're doing.

Thank you for taking the time to respond, again I'm really sorry about the misunderstanding. I've run across so many bad attitudes regarding these animals that I guess I am a little jaded, and quick to jump the gun. Again, my apologies.


I understand believe me......I have the same issue regarding Pit bulls...as you can see from many of my posts I love them and I am quick to get passionate when discussing the many issues that plague them.
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Old 06-08-2009, 11:22 AM   #60
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Re: Wolf at the dog park?

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I understand believe me......I have the same issue regarding Pit bulls...as you can see from many of my posts I love them and I am quick to get passionate when discussing the many issues that plague them.
I didn't know you were a pibble fan. I am too, and I have a ton of respect and admiration for the work you guys do promoting them. In many ways, I think you all have it worse than the wolfdog community does.
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