Virginia Tech.

ilovemychihuahua

OMG!! U guys! Have u heard the story about a man shooting kids at a College called Virgina Tech.?????!!!!! OMG!!! And the man that came in shot about 33 kids! It was soooo sad. Now we all at school have a practice drill called, "Crisis Drill", just incase someone too comes in our school and tries to kill us. It's very scary! Im even afraid. So kids out there, AH!!!!! RUN!!! Sorry......

iwantmypup

Yeah its been on for about a week...that man was a student..and shot32...33rd was himself.. don't worry..but it is scarry!: /

ilovemychihuahua

That REALLY scared the....stuff....out of me!!

iwantmypup

yeah...actually more than a weeeeeeekkksza.

RonE

It was two weeks ago today.

Coincidentally, my wife and I were visiting my son at college when it happened. We went up there to attend an award ceremony where he received some high honors for non-academic things he's done for the university over that past four years.

One of those things was to push for increased security in the dorms.

Puppy & Dog Forums

 

Amaya-Mazie-Marley

Its been on for a while. What scares me the most is that it was the largest mass killing in the US ever, and now people are going to try and top that.

Mr. N

Another reason that I hope Gov. Rick Perry allows Texans to carry handguns anywhere. I'm just hoping that "anywhere" actually means anywhere.

ilovemychihuahua

Handguns? Hmm....isn't that bad? I mean if they enter a concert, "Mam, do you have your handgun?" "Yes Sir I do." "Good your welcome to come in."
Um....unless you mean something else.

Mr. N

Well, they're concealed handguns. No one would know you had one unless you told everyone. And that's what I mean by "carrying handguns." I'm talking about getting a concealed handgun license.
No, I mean handguns. I believe that if everyone (who obeys the law) would carry a gun everywhere they go then stuff like this wouldn't happen. I believe that most of those who intend on doing harm to others would think twice about it if they knew a lot of people around them also had a gun on them.

I also believe that the reason America's mainland isn't attacked is because other countries know that many of us (the citizens) have guns in our houses. I don't remember who said it, but I read something from some country's leader who said he would never think about attacking America's mainland for that very reason.

AndyVetra

Help me comprehend what you're saying here. Anyone who has no criminal conviction is OK to carry a gun? So at my stepson's basketball tournament all the parents can be armed? Wandering round the grocery store - all armed. In line at the bank, mall, restaurant?

Also then that the USA has escaped invasion (apart from the Mexican invasion) solely because people have Smith and Wesson 45's and would defeat a Kalashnikov equipped invading force.

Respectfully, please tell me you're not serious.

ilovemychihuahua

Oh! Gotcha Mr.N!

sillylilykitty

Im not too sure about that idea too. What about the people who get angry and are stupid enough to physically attack someone, but then they remember they have a hand gun....

You know the parents at soccer (or any sports game) games who get angry at anyone (referee, coach or other parents) and get in fights. I think if they had a gun they would start shooting instead.

AndyVetra

Between sports, the freeways and malls I suppose we'd at least have a much needed population cull in Los Angeles.

Mr. N

Well, according to the Constitution... yes.
Well, it's a right given to us by the Constitution. I don't see why people can't/shouldn't go to these places with a firearm on their person.
I'm confused at what you're saying here. Are you asking a question?

I wouldn't say that the citizens being armed is the sole reason our mainland hasn't been attacked, but I definitely believe that fact helps.
No, I'm serious.
And Andy, please continue reading my response to sillylilkitty since I think it may help you get a better understanding of my reasoning.
How many cops/FBI/CIA Agents carry guns? 99% of them, right? How many of them pull out their guns and start shooting people when they get angry simply because they have a gun? How many permit-gun-carriers whip out their gun and start shooting people when they get upset simply because they have a gun on them?
I think that number is extremely small.
Legal gun carriers (unless I'm mistaken) have to take a firearm safety course. Also, I believe it's safe to say most legal gun carriers practice their aim/efficiency at a gun range. I know I'd feel much safer with a licensed carrier with a gun standing next to me than I would with an unlicensed carrier with a gun standing next to me. (Not that I'd really know, seeing as how it'd be concealed.)

Also, if the law passes that we can carry our guns anywhere doesn't mean that everyone will carry one.
I mean, right now it's legal for most people to buy/carry a handgun... but most people don't.
I think you both might be making this a bigger issue than it really is/would be.

Lastly, someone who's intent on killing/harming others isn't really going to care what the law says about carrying their guns to various places. If they want to harm/kill someone (or a group of people) they're going to... no matter what the law states. So, we wouldn't have a bunch of "sitting ducks" at schools (by schools I mean colleges), stores, banks, etc... if someone came in trying to kill everyone because the "ducks" would start shooting back.

AndyVetra

Let's just look at this one part. Can we assume that like all walks of life, there are probably 10% of "bad apples". Let's make it only 1%. The "non-criminal" population of the States is around 250 million. Based then on 1% across the population, that would mean 2,500,000 people would be capable of doing precisely that.

iwantmypup

I truely agree..If everyone carries a gun....I really think that a parent or a teeacher that gets fed up up with a kid they will start shooting... the reason the FBI / cops / CIA don't shoot is because they like their jobs.. I'm not saying teachers don't like their jobs though.
America would be much less safer... plus allottt more murderers .

Mr. N

And ignore the last half... which pretty much answers your concerns here?
Umm, nice way to play with the numbers. (this is why I hate statistics)

Assuming that only 1% are the "bad apples" and the other 99% are the law-abiding citizens, and there are 250 million people in the states...
Then yes, 2,500,000 people could go on a crazy shooting spree simply because they get angry/upset.
However, that's assuming that all 2,500,000 of the "bad apples" buy and carry guns.
Now, if we're assuming that all 2,500,000 "bad apples" went out and bought/carry guns, then we must also assume that the other 247,500,000 will also go out and buy/carry guns.
Therefore, if one of the "bad apples" pulls out a gun to go on a shooting rampage, he'd get a lot more holes in him than he'd be able to put into anyone else.

Now, with all the above aside, if a "bad apple" wants to buy/carry a gun and go kill people... they're going to do it anyways; regardless of what laws are put in place. Therefore, we should not be required to be sitting ducks with no means of protection.
I don't think the reason is because they don't want to lose their jobs.

Your logic there makes no sense.
A cop/FBI/CIA agent could probably randomly shoot someone and make it look like they were being attacked off-duty... therefore getting away with the murder. A teacher cannot really do that. Therefore, using your logic, you should be more afraid of cops/FBI/CIA agents carrying guns than you should the average Joe carrying one.

I think what keeps cops/FBI/CIA agents from shooting people when they get angry/upset is the same thing that prevents the rest of the country from doing it. Reason being: They don't want to go to jail.

sillylilykitty

Ok Mr.N, you made some good points. My dad has a gun, he had to get a license and go to a class and learn to shoot. Personally, I would rather have a big guard dog instead.

I can see that it would be better if everyone had guns, but I need to ask, what is the current situation? Cant anyone get a gun already? My dad has one so I would guess that anyone can, but I dont know. What is the current situation?

RonE

Ability to buy a gun and the ability to carry one concealed in public are two different sets of laws.

Instead of arming 20,000 students and faculty at Virginia Tech, I think a lot of heartache could have been averted if it hadn't been so easy for the shooter to buy guns, despite the fact that he had documented mental problems.

But don't imagine for a minute that I'm going to spend a lot of time debating gun control or concealed carry laws on a dog forum. Nobody here is likely to change their minds about either issue based on anything they read here.

But, if you want to debate and you can keep it civil, have at it.

DogueEdaddy

Well hey there Andy! Long time no see.

Seriously, like Ron, I know that what is heard on here about the Gun Rights debate ins't going to change anything. If Mr N's very complete and concise arguments can't, then I sure can't. All I'm posting for is to give you a bit of information Andy. You mentioned about people maybe being armed in grocery stores, etc. Fact is, if you spent any amount of time in Arizona, you would see just that. The concealed carry law there is very recent, but a resident there can still carry openly with no permit. When visiting my wife's parents there, I have seen people walking in grocery stores, gas stations, etc; many times, while openly armed. I have also seen many store clerks with a sidearm on their belt, especially in rural areas. Guess what; not many gun rage incidents. Also, in the state of Vermont, you don't need a permit to carry concealed and they recognize ALL other states' carry permits. It too isn't a Mecca of mayhem and murder.

Thanks guys and gals, I'll let y'all get back to your discussion now.

God Bless All......Stan

Puppy & Dog Forums