Lets Talk Politics...

Weebles

Obviously Hussein was a horrible guy. I think my biggest problem with the war is the fact that it was not well thought out. I think we could have accomplished far more at a far smaller price to our own country if we had gone about it in a way that involved some planning. Why should we be pumping endless money into something that has been going so poorly? We could have tried diplomatic means and worked with other countries to bring him down quickly, and would not have lost all the young men and women that we did.

BTW... for other liberals, there is an hysterically funny video on YouTube about Steve Jobs unveiling the new Apple products: the iRack and the iRan

iwantmypup

ooh i need to see that video

Omg that was too funny that video..i could not stop laughing...thanks Weebles! hahahahah im still laughingsza:!)

cshellenberger

I happen to agree with you about China, unfortunatly, we can't do much about them. I wish the West would stop doing business with them myself as that would do more to bring down their government than anything. However, we have to thing what kind of economic tailspin that would put the world into.

We do our best to help our own people, however, government can only do so much. People have to do something to help themselves out of the circle of poverty. If we end up with too many dependant on the dole, we'll end up like Rome. Believe me I've worked many jobs that I was overqualified to support my kids and make sure they had a roof over their heads. Yes, I've been on food stamps, welfare and section 8, it was the most humiliating thing I ever went through. I did what I could to get off the dole and make a better life. I've seen too many people who just 'accept' their lots and never try to do better. Their kids do the same thing and you end up with generation after gereration on Welfare.

CrzyBritNAmerica

Yeah it would really put a damper on their government if we didn't trade with them, but yeah that would definitely cause a crazy tailspin economically!

Oh I do agree with you there...but I didn't really mean specifically our problems with poverty. I think there are plenty things we can work on in this country besides our poverty.

I think we should be putting a lot more money into the education system and healthcare, as well as working on countless other things in the country.

I agree with you on the fact that people shouldn't rely fully on the goverment for money. I mean sometimes you have to, and you really don't have a choice...but as long as you are doing ALL you can to help yourself then you will succeed and get back on your feet. It's sad to see people just give up and not even try to help themselves.

Mr. N

*sigh* He's not after the oil. If he was actually after the oil, we'd have it by now. And yes, gas prices would drop if we had controll of those rescoures. People would buy more gas if it were cheaper. In the end, they'd make more money if it were made cheaper.
Yes... we're killing the militant ones. We're not out killing people standing on the sides of the road. We're killing the ones that are attacking us while we help to restore order. Yes, innocent people die... that's an unfortunate inevitibility of war. However, innocents aren't our targets. We're taking care of them by establishing order so that innocents will stop being killed.
We need to know because they wouldn't have thought twice about selling them to the people who would gladly use them on us.

That's like saying you don't have the right to know that Johnny brought a gun to school so he could give it to Sam who will shoot your son/daughter at the end of the day.

In this example, You (the parent) would be our government, Johnny would be Iraq, Sam would be the terrorists, and your son/daughter would be America.
I believe that it's ok for us to have them because we're not going to use them to wipe out a group of people that we don't like and disagree with. I believe that it's not ok for countries that will use them (simply because they can) to have them.
But that's beside the point. Whether or not we should have been there in the first place is completely irrelavent. We did go over there... and since we did, we should help rebuild that which we tore down.
Yes, the world is full of problems and evil men. We can't take on the whole world. So instead, we eliminate immediate threats. Sadaam was a threat to America (wanting to sell WMD's to countires who would use them on us) so we invaded. Then we found out what he was doing to the people under his rule and took him out. We did that because it's completely immoral to see something like that which Sadaam was doing and ignore it as if it wasn't taking place. Same thing with Hitler. When we joined WWII, we had no clue what Hitler was doing to the Jews. However, once we saw the terrible acts we were morally obligated to do what we were able to do to eliminate the wrong-doings.
For example, if you know your neighbor is a serial killer, is it wrong to ignore what he's doing? Should you just allow him to continue killing? Of course not. Morally, you're obligated to inform the authorities.
Again, that's beside the point. We did... so now we should fix it.
So we shouldn't have wasted our resources to take Hitler out? I mean... what business was it of ours to get involved with his affairs? Yes... we should invade other countries when said country is a threat to ours. And when we invade, if we wipe out the political powers... we should fix what we destroyed.
Oh, I don't believe that "world peace" is a possibility. Not by any means. We can't stop them all... but we should stop the ones that we can. What you're saying here is basically the same as saying: "There are a lot of murderers in this world. It's ridiculous to think we can stop all murders from taking place." Yes, it's impossible to stop all murderers... but that doesn't mean that we shouldn't do something about the ones that we catch.
We would only "waste" more money on fixing a country if they are not capable of coming up with a solution on their own. For instance, if for some odd reason we were to take out England... they would be able to establish a new government on their own with little-to-no help from us. Therefore, we wouldn't "waste" all that much money on helping them. However, in a place like Iraq, where if we didn't help them establish a government then evil people would assume rule and then nothing was solved.
About this... we're not going to go in simply to "fix" a problem-infested country. If China were to be a serious threat to us, I doubt our government would stand by and do nothing about it. And if we did have to wipe out China, then yes, we would do what would be needed to get them back on track. Comments like these seem to imply that we're out there taking over countries simply because we do not agree with their way of life. That is not what we're doing. We're only fixing things that we destroy.
Ah, but again, that is beside the point. We did... and the government does take people's homes from them. Whether they should or shouldn't be doing it is irrelevant. The deed's been done. They should now do something about it.

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iwantmypup

mmmhhmmsza:!)/

Well I hope to hear all of your guyses responses...but now im off to have a serious Yahoo Messenger chat .. . Thank you!

UGH! why do people sign off sooo quickly!!!!!

Further more.......................sza

CrzyBritNAmerica

You're right. It is a hopeless cause to wish that we never went to Iraq because we certainly can't change the future. I think I agree with Weebles on this issue...we should have thought this invasion out if it was inevitably going to happen. I don't think this many people should have died, I don't think this much money should have been spent and I don't think that we needed this to last as long as it has/is.

I think that Bush should have thought out the situation and tried to solve this problem without so much waste. I do think that we have wasted a lot of money on this cause.

I can definitely see your point Mr. N and I can't disagree, but I just think that spending SO MUCH of our country's money and allowing all those young men and women to die for such a cause is heartbreaking. I do think that Hussein needed to be eliminated, but I just think we should have gone about it a different way. Now we are stuck in a bad situation that it IS going to be hard to get out of.

cshellenberger

I too agree wit hWeebes on that, Bush and his advisors should have had a plan to rebuild in place before the Invasion began along with a plan to keep the incursion of foriegn terrorists at a minimum. Hindsite is 20/20. We are where we are and if we leave too soon, all Hell is going to break loose.

German Shepherd Lover

Looks to me like the ones with the real truth and brains in this mess are standing with President Bush and they should.

cshellenberger

GSL, insulting people is not an effective way to win your point. If you wish to contribute do so, but don't insult.

iwantmypup

Brains?!?!! PFFTS|SA!

cshellenberger

That goes for you too pup!

iwantmypup

hehe sawee!!

German Shepherd Lover

Thanks for the advice Carla, I guess I just get so frustrated when the majority of the people that make comments on politics don't take any time whatsoever to learn the facts. Many of the responses are generated from emotions and false propoganda that is spewed on the news daily, and I can see what makes people think the way they do.

I only wish that people would research the truth and watch a news channel such as Fox news that at least have representation from liberals as well as conservatives.


If people want to talk about politics they need to be thick skinned and not so easily offended and so emotional. Politics is not nice and always benefits the politician.

It is my opinion that political correctness is overdone and may also be overdone on this forum, therefore I choose not to participate in this topic to alleviate you any undue stress from refereeing my responses. I do see that you share simular values and concerns that I do and do a much better job of controlling your frustration. See you again in another topic..... Bye

cshellenberger

You're absolutely right, that's why I post the News stories and State Department reports so these folks can read them. I try not to say anything I can't back up.

CrzyBritNAmerica

You're right, except that Fox is a very Republican channel, and always has been. I agree with cshellenberger in that I'd rather look online for the whole story than hear the bits and pieces they give you on the news channels.

I don't really like to call myself Democratic or Republican (although I suppose most of my views are more on the Dem side), but I am liberal. I understand your point clearly in this post, but just because liberals/Democrats have different views to you doesn't mean that they don't know the facts.

I am not conservative, but I certainly don't think that all conservatives just don't know their facts.

Laurelin

I agree with this completely.

GSL, just because someone is liberal does not mean they don't have brains as you called it. It means they are liberal. No one but you seems to be resorting to name calling on this thread. Everyone else seems to be discussing things quite maturely- they obviously just don't agree. I did not hear any hostilities until you started making comments.

Mr. N

I agree with you guys that going into Iraq could've been planned out better. Though I still don't have a problem with us going over there in the first place.
Our government knows things about this world that we (the public) will never know... which is why I don't really listen to much of what the media says because I know that they don't know all the facts... and I also believe that they intentionally hide much of the truth. (both conservative and liberal)
I don't see how it's heartbreaking. When people sign up for the military, they know that there's a possibility that they may die in a war... and it may even be in a war that they don't particularly support. It's part of the contract. All the military members knew the posibilities of this kind of thing happening when they signed up. Back when I signed up, I knew I might die while fighting for this country. Dying is a potential hazard that goes along with the job.

Curbside Prophet

I'm struggling with whether or not we need to be in Iraq, but I do understand this...we (the U.S.) is now the most responsible nation for sowing the seeds of democracy in the middle east. It's not going to be easy, or pretty, especially when countries are testing patience with nuclear power in an effort to muscle Isreal. Deplomacy would be nice, but I don't think we're dealing with "nice" governments here. My opinion is, if democracy fails, even after a long and nasty struggle, Isreal will be contested, and we'll be back again to finish unfinshed business. I don't look forward to that day, so I hope we can figure this out now.

DOBERMAN_07

You are being delusional if you think the US does anything out of "good will" or as a "responsible super power". Everything that we do is to add to our interest to better our international ties and to allow economic growth.

If we are such a "good" country who defends the weak and helps overthrow those who challenge democracy and/or human rights, then can you answer where were we when the Darfur Conflict was going on?

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