people who have kids (human)...

Willowy · 07-03-2009, 06:42 PM

LOL, this is exactly the kind of thing that would end up in the "debate" section of some forums......

I won't say all I want to say. Only that I feel I was severely emotionally damaged by normal, non-abusive spanking. If that's a risk parents wish to take, who am I to argue? If they end up in a discount nursing home with multiple health code violations, I won't feel sorry for them.

Dozi · 07-03-2009, 11:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hulkamaniac

Kids today suffer from parents who are too permissive IMO. Parents want to be friends and best buds with their kids and not actual parents. Kids need rules just the way dogs do. If not you get the human equivalent of a dog who tips trash cans, surfs counters, ........oh wait.

Thank you for saying this.... I agree... when I was growing up no-one needed nanny 911 etc. to help them "fix" behavior problems... they just gave them a good spanking which magically cured a lot of behavioral problems.

Willowy · 07-03-2009, 11:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dozi

they just gave them a good spanking which magically cured a lot of behavioral problems.

.......Which also "magically" caused a lot of emotional problems, too........

Some parents are too permissive and that's no good, but the best parents I've known do not spank. You can still be the boss without resorting to that kind of thing.

Dozi · 07-03-2009, 11:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Foyerhawk

I am saddened that it is okay to hit children in this society, and that they do not have the same rights as adults.
If you are doing what you feel is right, and out of love, and with knowledge from ALL sides, and you feel at peace then who cares what I think, right?

I actually think there is a good reason why kids do not have the same rights as adults... firstly cause they mostly do things on impulse and do not really consider the consequences of their actions (some adults also suffer from this “malfunction’)
As far as raising your kids with knowledge from ALL sides... I wish that would be the reality... but unfortunately I think 90% of people who have children have no idea what they are getting themselves into... especially if it's their first child.

zimandtakandgrrandmimi · 07-03-2009, 11:50 PM

I was spanked. not beaten...spanked.

and I hated it. I hated it sooo much that I plotted revenge for every little spanking I ever got. they spanked me for acting like a hooligan...I just got crazier...until..

As soon as I was big enough, one day my dad tried to spank me when he caught me skipping school...and I turned on him and beat the snot out of him.

remember that when you spank your kids.....or your dog.

Dozi · 07-03-2009, 11:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Willowy

Some parents are too permissive and that's no good, but the best parents I've known do not spank.

Funny... these also seem to be the "best" parents who can't control their snotty, disrespectful children in shopping malls etc. accross the country.

Willowy · 07-04-2009, 12:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dozi

Funny... these also seem to be the "best" parents who can't control their snotty, disrespectful children in shopping malls etc. accross the country.

No, those are the permissive parents. The parents I have known who do not spank are calm, authoritative, consistent parents. The parents I have known who do spank are generally uncontrolled, immature, and terribly inconsistent. Their kids are horrible brats, and they think spanking is the same as disciplining. It's not.

People get what they deserve when it comes to kids. My mom and her siblings HATED their dad. Sure, they felt a duty to make sure he was cared for in his old age, and they visited, but mostly to see my grandma. They never let on as to their real feelings, and were always polite, but he knew. When my grandpa died, all the kids went to the hospital......and sat in the waiting room and talked to each other instead of sitting with him. He died knowing full well his kids hated him, and it was all his fault. Sad, but you get what's coming to you.

Kuma'sMom · 07-04-2009, 12:02 AM

Riiiiight, 'cause the only way to have a well behaved child is to hit them. Please. My best friend does not spank, she has an extremely strong willed little girl, and yet that child is the best behaved girl I've ever seen. Same goes for my brother and sister-in-law. Don't spank, children are beautifully behaved. In fact I see many little hellions racing around, causing havoc in public with their parents screaming in the background about the spankings they'll get "when they get home".

Willowy · 07-04-2009, 12:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kuma'sMom

In fact I see many little hellions racing around, causing havoc in public with their parents screaming in the background about the spankings they'll get "when they get home".

Oh, I see that all the time, too

. Which is what I meant by "immature". I can't think of anything more juvenile than that.

Though another question has popped into my head.......IF spanking actually produced favorable behavioral changes (which it rarely does, in my experience), is it worth it if your child was horrible emotionally damaged, as long as they were well behaved?

cshellenberger · 07-04-2009, 12:49 AM

Willowy,
I'm sorry your parents di the emotional damage they did by spanking you, however it's not always the case.

I was spanked, not often, but it happened occasionally when NOTHING else worked. Spanking was a last resort for my parents (as it is for me, I've only had to spank my kids three or four times their whole lives). It ws never a daily thing and yes, I do think some people over use it, at that point spanking becomes abusive.

I do think there are better ways dicipline kids MOST of the time, I've never spanked for tiny infractions (though I've popped a hand that got to close to something that could have harmed it far worse than I could).

Other techniques I've used effectively are the normal taking of privileges or treasured items, standing in the corner with their hands over their heads, Physical exercise (mini bootcamp) and with very young children IGNORING the child and at times walking away during a temper tantrum (VERY EFFECTIVE) and when that didn't work and the child was on the ground. My children very seldon threw tantrum (especailly the twins) because it got them NOTHING.

On the other hand I've also been sure to ther for my kids to listen to them, I wanted to be sure my kids could trust me and wanted to come to ME with their problems, no matter WHAT that problems was. I never had that with my mom or dad andI felt it was a neccesary thing to build a trust bond with my kids. Yes, I'm their mother and I'm not scared to set them stright if needed, but I'm also a friend. I'm the one friend they KNOW they will always hear the bald-faced truth from. Being a parent has to be a constant balancing act, knowing when to be strict and when to be a shoulder to cry on and when to be a little more lienient. I think I've done a decent job fo the most part, my kids are respecful and have some promise of having a good life. My Twin girls turned 18 yesterday, one's going into the Army and the other is finshing up he high school and going to Junior college.

KenyiGirl · 07-04-2009, 01:09 AM

Quote:

Only that I feel I was severely emotionally damaged by normal, non-abusive spanking.

I do not believe that normal, non-abusive spanking, when partnered with loving, consistent parents can result in severe emotional damage. I'm not saying that you're not emotionally damaged, I'm saying I don't believe spanking was the sole cause.
Spanking is a tool. When you overuse or abuse the tool it becomes bad (just like any other form of discipline). I turned out just fine. I'm pretty confident my future kids will as well.

Corteo · 07-04-2009, 07:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kuma'sMom

It's not effective, it's a terrible to foster a strong relationship with your child in my opinion, and I do think it borders on being cruel. Just my opinion, but one shared by many experts these days.

In your opinion. I was spanked as a child, and I could not have been closer to my wonderful parents.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kuma'sMom

Riiiiight, 'cause the only way to have a well behaved child is to hit them.

No one is saying that

Quote:

In fact I see many little hellions racing around, causing havoc in public with their parents screaming in the background about the spankings they'll get "when they get home".

See now, those parents are like the over permissive parents. They use spankings like party favors

Quote:

Though another question has popped into my head.......IF spanking actually produced favorable behavioral changes (which it rarely does, in my experience), is it worth it if your child was horrible emotionally damaged, as long as they were well behaved?

Once again, I was not "horrible emotionally damaged", and if you look back through the thread, it looks like the majority wasn't either.

Quote:

Originally Posted by KenyiGirl

Spanking is a tool. When you overuse or abuse the tool it becomes bad (just like any other form of discipline).

Ditto

hulkamaniac · 07-04-2009, 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cshellenberger

at times walking away during a temper tantrum (VERY EFFECTIVE) and when that didn't work and the child was on the ground. My children very seldon threw tantrum (especailly the twins) because it got them NOTHING.

That reminds me of a story a friend of mine at work used to tell. Now, she had old school parents who strongly believed in "spare the rod and spoil the child" but they practiced the same thing during temper tantrums. She told the story of being in the grocery store with her mom and her younger sister. The sister wanted some item and mom wouldn't buy it for her so her sister threw herself on the ground and started screaming right there in the aisle. Her mom calmly told her sister that if she didn't get up and start behaving right she was just going to leave her there (I believe the kid was 4-5 at the time). The kid kept screaming so mom and my friend pushed the cart down the aisle, around the corner and kept shopping. The kid continued to scream for another 3-4 minutes while mom continued her shopping. At this point, my friend (being just 6-7 yrs old) is a little worried. After 3-4 minutes, silence fell across the store again and mom turned to my friend and said, "Ok, go get your sister." The sister never again threw a temper tantrum in public.

The moral of the story is that spanking is just one tool in the tool kit of parenting. Would I spank a 1 year old who reached some crystal knick nack? Probably not. A harsh word or a slap on the wrist would no doubt be sufficient. Would I spank the same 1 year old who immediately reached for the knick nack after having their wrist slapped? I would consider it at that point.

pugmom · 07-04-2009, 09:53 AM

I guess if some want to have the "paddle' brought back into schools...maybe it would be a good idea to also have it in the work place?....I bet that would deter the chronically late employee....and keep the theft of office supplies down LOL

Corteo · 07-04-2009, 09:56 AM

LOL. IMO, spanking should only be done by a parent... Not a school.

cshellenberger · 07-04-2009, 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hulkamaniac

The moral of the story is that spanking is just one tool in the tool kit of parenting. Would I spank a 1 year old who reached some crystal knick nack? Probably not. A harsh word or a slap on the wrist would no doubt be sufficient. Would I spank the same 1 year old who immediately reached for the knick nack after having their wrist slapped? I would consider it at that point.

I would never spank a one year old, if they reached the second time the child would be placed in my lap for a brief time out while the precious object was relocated to remove the temptation. A one year old is not yet old enough to understand and the infraction is too minor. I would only lightly pop the hand IF the child were reaching for something dangerous such as an oopen fire or electrical outlet.

hulkamaniac · 07-04-2009, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cshellenberger

I would never spank a one year old, if they reached the second time the child would be placed in my lap for a brief time out while the precious object was relocated to remove the temptation. A one year old is not yet old enough to understand and the infraction is too minor. I would only lightly pop the hand IF the child were reaching for something dangerous such as an oopen fire or electrical outlet.

There we would disagree. My brother was born when I was 14 so I got to see my parents raise him through the "wanting to touch everything" years. They never bothered child-proofing their house because they felt if they took him to someone else's house it was unfair to expect them to child proof their home as well. They felt it was easier to teach the child not to reach for stuff on tables, dressers, etc.... Kids that age are kind of like dogs in that they have remarkably short attention spans, but I think they have the ability to understand the action = consequences logic.

Dozi · 07-04-2009, 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hulkamaniac

There we would disagree. My brother was born when I was 14 so I got to see my parents raise him through the "wanting to touch everything" years. They never bothered child-proofing their house because they felt if they took him to someone else's house it was unfair to expect them to child proof their home as well. They felt it was easier to teach the child not to reach for stuff on tables, dressers, etc.... Kids that age are kind of like dogs in that they have remarkably short attention spans, but I think they have the ability to understand the action = consequences logic.

I definitely feel people do not give children the credit they deserve. You can teach a baby sign language to communicate even way before they are able to talk with words. I think they are fully capable of understanding action = consequences even before they are one year old.

cshellenberger · 07-04-2009, 01:44 PM

Yes, a one year old is starting to recognize cause & effect, HOWEVER it's not advanced enough to justify a spanking, redirection works better as does small time outs at that point. Honestly, I don't think spanking is effective until around are three or four. As I said, I've seldom had to resort to spanking.

KenyiGirl · 07-04-2009, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dozi

I definitely feel people do not give children the credit they deserve. You can teach a baby sign language to communicate even way before they are able to talk with words. I think they are fully capable of understanding action = consequences even before they are one year old.

I agree 100%. Whether you agree with spanking, or prefer a different form of discipline, most 1 year olds are capable of understanding the concept of "no". The only time my mom spanked her babies was when they tried to crawl away from her when she was changing their diaper. She'd tell them no, put them back and if they tried again, she'd give them a swat.