people who have kids (human)...

mandymmr

I personaly wouldn't mind a mod closing this thread because as I have said it has gotten WAY off topic in my trying to make some sort of a pioint!

KenyiGirl

I'd like to say something before the thread gets closed. I really enjoyed the debate and hearing everyone's thoughts on different sides of different issues. I'm disapointed the thread will be closed just because it got off topic.
Zim, I don't think you should be getting mad at Mandy, she didn't mean to insult you or anything, in fact she's right. For example, if we waited for kids to be interested in math, no one would ever graduate school! But you're in special circumstances, to be sure.
I hope we've learned some things from each other, I've learned some. I wish everyone the best with their parenting, both humans and dogs

hulkamaniac

It's up to the mods whether to close this thread or not, but to Mandy, I think people did discuss your point. Your point (as I recall) was that you should be entitled to spank your dogs because people spank kids all the time. People tended to agree that dogs can't reason the way kids do so it's foolish to spank a dog. Not sure what you wanted beyond that.

zimandtakandgrrandmimi

its the same deal was getting a bit peeved at hulk for.

Making the assumption without knowing the whole story that a child should be behaving one way just because its reached a certain age and if its not behaving that way..the child should be spanked.

there are TOO MANY factors that are individual to that particular child to be making that assumption and sometimes not even THE PARENTS know everything about it.

and honestly I know plenty of NORMAL kids who potty train at age three. Boys have a tendancy to potty train later than girls, some kids start early, some kids start late...some kids aren't capable of dealing with situations like church and its not the fault of the parents...when we are talking 0-5 age group, patience and consideration is needed..I used to work in a daycare and I have seen kids that run the gamut from astonishingly mature at age one to infantile at age five...and its not JUST about discipline...its about understanding the TOTAL CHILD. and every single one of them is different from the next.

in the daycare...of course there was no spanking. I learned how to deal with a slew of different problems without physical punishment and with my children...curent and future im gonna stick to that. They are people too. they deserve at least some dignity.

mandy. im not mad. Im just tired of being called a "weak" parent. im not. my house is actually run very similar to a military boot camp. I just choose a different way to deal consequences. I've spent a lot of time in my life facing punitive types of consequences for my actions and it taught me nothing.

MegaMuttMom

That does not take spanking to accomplish. I have 2 children (they are 18 and 14 now) that I could take anywhere and they would sit quietly if I asked them too. If I thought it would be hard for them, I would bring something quiet for them to do. I have been stopped countless times by people in public to compliment me on how well behaved my children are. I have never, and will never, lay a hand on them for any reason! The rule in our house is NOONE hits anyone for any reason. The respect in our house is powerful and goes both ways.

The example of spanking because your child ran across the street without you is the same as saying you should hit your dog for running away when un-leashed and without a consistent recall. If a chid is not old enough to cross a street safely alone, they should have their have their hand in yours. No exceptions! Same for parking lots! If you have a kid that is a bolter, you know it long before you get near a road or parking lot! If you fail to keep your child safe, hit yourself in the head!

Willowy

Wow, he sounds just like my youngest brother. We suspect Asperger's Syndrome, but he won't go in for a diagnosis (he's 22). BTW, my mom NEVER spanked him. He would have hidden under the table for a month if she had. If anyone so much as raised their voice in his presence, he'd sit under the table for the rest of the day. And there was NO way to get him out. A "my-life-is-in-danger" panicked 3-year-old is extremely hard to drag out from under things...... . It takes a lot of parenting skillz to raise a kid like that. Good thing he wasn't the oldest *grumble grumble*. We're always the guinea pigs.Sure it can happen, but I've personally never seen it happen in a pro-spanking family. It takes a lot of patience and consistency to do that, and most pro-spanking families I know are just lazy---it's just so easy to smack your kids without actually bothering to discipline them. And it depends on the individual child's personality, too.

txcollies

sure it can happen, but I've personally never seen it happen in a pro-spanking family. It takes a lot of patience and consistency to do that, and most pro-spanking families I know are just lazy---it's just so easy to smack your kids without actually bothering to discipline them. And it depends on the individual child's personality, too.

Happened in my family, and many other families that I know. We weren't spanked in a wrong way, and were were NOT abused or scarred or anything like that, either, so no going off on that subject please. :-)

Good thing he wasn't the oldest *grumble grumble*. We're always the guinea pigs.
Quote:

I hear ya. Guinea pigs we are for sure. I guess it's like your first dog. You live and you learn, and you get better.

hulkamaniac

There's a huge difference between smacking a kid and disciplining a kid. And good discipline can involve spanking IMO and IME.

Willowy

Sure, I recognize it theoretically COULD happen in a pro-spanking family. I've just never seen it personally.

I'm confused. Most of your previous posts seem to be on the lines of "that kids needs a good smack", with no difference between punishment and discipline.

KenyiGirl

Happened in my family too, and I know several families who spank and have lovely polite children. On the other hand, I know several families with horrid children who spank as well, but the consistency isn't there. I know lazy families too, and some of them are spankers.

Yup. I was a guinea pig too

zimandtakandgrrandmimi

http://www.kidsource.com/kidsource/c...line.3.19.html

this article is one I've had bookmarked for a bit for a few reasons..

the way it describes spanking...is what happened with me. it CAN happen. and im the type of person who thinks "if the consequences of an action have x% chance of being negative, I will look for a different way" Spanking IMO has too much of a chance of being a bad thing IMHO. the fear, the mistrust and my police record attest to it.

and the rest of it has been very effective as far as my own experiences with parenting go.

emily445455

I never said they spanked...I have no idea if they do or not, I just said it takes good "discipline" to have children like that. What form they choose is up to them.

I won't be holding my child's hand while they are playing in the back yard. Anyways...you raise your kids your way, and I will raise my future kids my way

Mdawn

I was never spanked as a child. I don't really have an opinion on spanking one way or another. I don't really think that there is anything wrong with a parent spanking their kid as a consequence for something serious. But I don't really think that there is anything wrong with a parent that chooses to use other methods. Any method of punishment can be abused, whether its time-outs, grounding, taking away possessions or spanking. All it comes down to is the quality of the parent.

cshellenberger

I agree, children with Autism and other special needs should NEVER be spanked or forced along.

Xie

I have two children, a son who is 9 with mild developmental issues and a neuro-typical 7 yr old daughter.

I do not spank. Ever.

Why would I spank when there are far more effective ways of dealing with situations? Plus, it is an extremely limited method that ends up being ineffective and useless in the long run. Are you going to spank a teenager? I would hope not, and if not, why not use methods that will work their whole lives?

My son had a ROUGH time in his regular public school this year (mainstream with an aid). The school punished him everytime he acted out (in time out, taking out of the classroom, no recess, etc...) but I was still being called at least once a week to pick him up because he was being unmanageable. We were not having these issues at home but I figured it was the different environment that was doing it.

Half-way through the school year he was switched to a private school for children with mild special needs. It has been AWESOME! The school he switched to uses positive discipline and every week when I spoke to the teacher all I got were comments about how wonderful my son is, what a joy he is in the classroom, how he's offering to do extra work, etc...

The school runs on a point system where they start the day with 120 points and lose and gain based on behavior. Each Thursday they could take the points they had earned and get a toy from the school toy store or save the points for a really big toy (if the child has a particular one in mind it is put aside while the child saves). They can also save points for a $10 gift certificate (each point is worth a penny, so need to save 1000 points for them) to toys r us, best buy, or barnes and noble.

My son, who had no patience at his old school, saved up multiple times for big toys (large lego sets and transformer toys) and gift certificates. He had been falling behind grade level and managed to catch up and actually surpassed grade level in reading. Only once he acted out when he first got there and was calmly told he could stay in class and continue to earn points or he would have to go to speak with the counselor in the quiet room. He chose to stay and earn points and was completely fine after that for the rest of the entire year.

He actually looks forward to going to school now and was very upset when he was sick that he had to stay home. That is in sharp contrast to the kid who was faking illness to try to stay home from his other school. I firmly believe it was the change from a punitive based system to a positive based system that did this.

If it works at school it should work at home and it does. We have a star chart for completed chores and they can earn things with those stars. Sometimes toys but sometimes it's an extra bit of dessert, getting to hang out one-on-one with mommy (okay, that might not be a plus for much longer,lol), having a special book read to them before bed, etc... They love it and get great satisfaction out of a job well done and a star earned. We do have "corrections" also. If they don't want to do a chore they get a choice, do the chore and earn a star or lose a privilege like computer use or tv time. They chose the star.

I see it similar but not quite the same with dogs. I largely use positive methods with treats and luring to get what I want. Once they know it though I will occasionally use a leash correction if what I ask isn't done. I don't think a dog could reason that it was being punished if I took away a toy, but it can understand do what is asked and get a treat, don't do it and get a correction. They usually chose the treat also