Fur Coats Are Wrong!!!

DOBERMAN_07 · 03-20-2007, 05:14 PM

As far as Im concerned humans have all the right in the world to consume any animal on this planet as long as it is used fully and nothing is wasted. We have the right to wear fur just as other animals have the right to kill and eat others.

CrzyBritNAmerica · 03-20-2007, 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BeagleLover

But we don't get that fur from them. We get fur from other animals.

But they breed these animals for making fur coats. Its not like they get the fur from random dogs on the streets. These animals were bred for this trade.

Yes, I agree that its very cruel to the animals, those people have to make money somehow. Its THEIR culture, and we think that its sick, they find it perfectly normal. And they don't have laws against using dog/cat fur.

Yeah you are right, but if you look on that site they actually sell this fur to the UK and other parts of Europe too. No it's not illegal, but it could/should be. I know it's a part of their culture and they don't treat dogs as much of anything (they don't even treat most people as anything) but those are the kinds of views that could be changed over time if we only taught people why it is cruel. People working in these industries don't think it's wrong...but they also don't think that these animals have feelings. I think it is the informed people's job to try and inform others. I am sure it would take A LOT of work to have the whole world understand that these animals do have feelings and shouldn't be treated like this, but if that message slowly started coming accross it could make some kind of difference. I've read that just by explaining to the people working at places like that they have influenced many people to quit working there and to treat animals with a little more respect.

DOBERMAN_07 · 03-20-2007, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. N

Well... it's only disturbing depending on your culture. It's disturbing to some Americans because we're a bunch of emotional cry-babies who aren't willing to take the time to study other cultures to try and understand why they do certain things.

This part made me remember a funny situation on another forum I visit. Some guy made a thread called "If the U.S. went to war against France, how many minutes would France last."

This was followed by someone making a thread called "If the U.S. went to war agains Canada, how much time will it take them to find Canada on the map"

German Shepherd Lover · 03-20-2007, 05:25 PM

I don't really care for fur coats and wouldn't even think of buying anything made from cats or dogs. I don't want any shark fins, alligator shoes and don't even like to kill a spider, but I do wear alot of leather and suede products. I hope they have come from animals slaughtered for food and the hides are now on my back, my feet, my belt and my car seats....... I figure if we raise it for food and already eat it, it would be a waste not to use the hide. Oh well, I guess I will now give my dog a pig ear?

CrzyBritNAmerica · 03-20-2007, 05:27 PM

Quote:

Well... it's only disturbing depending on your culture. It's disturbing to some Americans because we're a bunch of emotional cry-babies who aren't willing to take the time to study other cultures to try and understand why they do certain things.

Okay you have a very vaild point. All of you. In fact I suppose based on my religious background I'd have to agree that animals are here for our purposes. I eat meat. I eat cows, chickens, etc and to China and other countries dogs are no different from the others. I am more against the way the animals are treated as opposed to the actual wearing of fur coats. But that is the same in the US. The methods used in how a cow (for example) becomes beef are pretty sick and disturbing...but I still eat beef.

Anyway, I think that Mr. N completely contradicted himself in this post. You say we should take the time to learn about other people's cultures...we should and that's true...but calling American's "a bunch of emotional cry-babies" is basically just disrespecting (for lack of a better word) our culture. We are raised to believe that dogs, cats, etc are pets and to be treated with respect. (most of us that is, or some anyway) So we aren't "a bunch of emotional cry-babies" at all; that is just what we are taught to believe and that is part of our culture as much as eating dogs and cats is part of China's.

AndyVetra · 03-20-2007, 05:41 PM

Aren't "cultural norms" fleeting in the grand scheme of things anyway. I hail from Scotland originally. It is only a short time ago that we were painting ourselves blue and eating each other. Outside of football matches that doesn't happen too much anymore.

I was lucky enough to live in Sri Lanka for a while. A Country that reveres elephants, yet still had many making a living killing those revered creatures for tusks. That wasn't their cultural norms. They were feeding our desire for artifacts. Now we are sickened - in the main - by the use of elephants in this way, the demand is dropping and there is less killing of elephants.

The point being whilst we may have the "right" to use any other animal, we are the one animal blessed with the ability to eradicate others and also the one blessed with the ability to adapt via consideration. Therefore defending "cultural norms" is invalid as they change continuously.

I eat meat, wear leather and have no inherent problem with people wearing fur and believe that hunting is far less hypocritical than buying meat from a grocery store. There are some furs being worn that I find utterly obnoxious because of the perils faced by the particular species. This thread would indicate that far from it being a "cultural norm" to wear fur, a great number oppose it. At the point that becomes a majority would those advocating fur accept the will of the majority?

CrzyBritNAmerica · 03-20-2007, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndyVetra

Aren't "cultural norms" fleeting in the grand scheme of things anyway. I hail from Scotland originally. It is only a short time ago that we were painting ourselves blue and eating each other. Outside of football matches that doesn't happen too much anymore.

I was lucky enough to live in Sri Lanka for a while. A Country that reveres elephants, yet still had many making a living killing those revered creatures for tusks. That wasn't their cultural norms. They were feeding our desire for artifacts. Now we are sickened - in the main - by the use of elephants in this way, the demand is dropping and there is less killing of elephants.

The point being whilst we may have the "right" to use any other animal, we are the one animal blessed with the ability to eradicate others and also the one blessed with the ability to adapt via consideration. Therefore defending "cultural norms" is invalid as they change continuously.

I eat meat, wear leather and have no inherent problem with people wearing fur and believe that hunting is far less hypocritical than buying meat from a grocery store. There are some furs being worn that I find utterly obnoxious because of the perils faced by the particular species. This thread would indicate that far from it being a "cultural norm" to wear fur, a great number oppose it. At the point that becomes a majority would those advocating fur accept the will of the majority?

I agree with you. A lot of places that harvest animals for the use of fashion items used to cherish these animals. I think a lot of the problem has to do with the price put on those items.

Mr. N · 03-20-2007, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrzyBritNAmerica

Anyway, I think that Mr. N completely contradicted himself in this post. You say we should take the time to learn about other people's cultures...we should and that's true...but calling American's "a bunch of emotional cry-babies" is basically just disrespecting (for lack of a better word) our culture. We are raised to believe that dogs, cats, etc are pets and to be treated with respect. (most of us that is, or some anyway) So we aren't "a bunch of emotional cry-babies" at all; that is just what we are taught to believe and that is part of our culture as much as eating dogs and cats is part of China's.

I don't think I contradict myself... I just didn't explain myself very well. I'm not calling Americans a bunch of emotional cry-babies simply because of some American's views of animal rights.
When I said "emotional cry-babies" I'm talking about the people who "cry" about everything. For instance: "War is wrong because people die." Well... right... people die. It's war. But if we didn't go to war and kill a handfull of people, then that handfull would end up killing hundreds of thousands of people. I mean, look at Hitler. If he were around nowdays, the emotional cry-baby Americans would be against us taking him out... even though he'd be killing millions of people.
That is more of what I meant by "Americans are a bunch of emotional cry-babies."
I hope that makes more sense.

But you're right... I did make a very large generalization... which, of course, is not true of all Americans. I definitely should've explained myself better.

CrzyBritNAmerica · 03-20-2007, 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. N

I don't think I contradict myself... I just didn't explain myself very well. I'm not calling Americans a bunch of emotional cry-babies simply because of some American's views of animal rights.
When I said "emotional cry-babies" I'm talking about the people who "cry" about everything. For instance: "War is wrong because people die." Well... right... people die. It's war. But if we didn't go to war and kill a handfull of people, then that handfull would end up killing hundreds of thousands of people. I mean, look at Hitler. If he were around nowdays, the emotional cry-baby Americans would be against us taking him out... even though he'd be killing millions of people.
That is more of what I meant by "Americans are a bunch of emotional cry-babies."
I hope that makes more sense.

But you're right... I did make a very large generalization... which, of course, is not true of all Americans. I definitely should've explained myself better.

Nice point there. That makes more sense!

4onthefloor · 06-04-2007, 03:19 AM

I do not wear fur. It's wrong to label a product faux fur when it is cat or dog fur (As some designers did recently) It sickens me just to think about if I had bought an item like that.

The animals caught in the wild suffer painful deaths, That's enough reason for me, plus the fact that domestic animals, other wildlife & people have got trapped in them. Mink & Chin are farm raised & don't have to go through that type of aggonizing death. However I still would not wear it. It's not necessary. Products are available now to keep you warmer than fur. Of course like the tobbaco industry some are addicted to it- but as a 'status' symbol.

Although I still eat some poultry and fish I buy organic, kosher range free.There are legumes (beans,) & soy products that are much higher in protein & have no fat or cholestral which are much healthier. Biblically speaking certain foods should be avoided. If you follow that diet its suppose to be much healthier. I read that each glass of milk contains 8 drops of pusse - that's why they give the cows antibiotics, that's for the ones that are milked by machine constantly, the overmilking causes infection. I buy organic milk now, after reading that I can't drink milk, actually I prefer soy milk.

My problem is with the way animals are raised & killed. These animals are aware and they feel pain. The animals who are hunted in the wild at least have had a free life and there are small groups of farmers who let there animals graze & live free till they are killed. "A good man cares for his beast" that's from the old testament. Maybe the animals are here for our use, but not for our abuse. For those christians Check Genisis & the story of the Garden. Man didn't eat meat. Not till after the flood. According to The Word.

Betty · 06-04-2007, 09:47 AM

Random thoughts on fur, animals and meat...

I hunt for meat and for culling, but I don't wear fur. I don't like the maintenance, and it tickles my nose. I need to remember to bag my wool coat before the moths find it. I do enjoy leather because of it's durability and looks. I like my goose-down filled winter jacket and sleeping bag - down is extremely warm and much lighter than synthetic fill. I can also compact my sleeping bag down much smaller than a synthetic one, which is handy when you've got a backpack full of gear.

I've hunted rabbit, groundhog, muskrat and snapping turtles for culling and for property damage control. I've hunted turkey for meat. Haven't gotten a deer yet, though I look forward to deer burgers, deer sausuage, and lots of deer jerky.

There is a lady I saw on TV who takes the hair your dog sheds, spins it, and turns it into clothing.

I don't care if someone is a carnivore, herbivore, or omnivore.