Fur Coats Are Wrong!!!

Booga · 11-29-2006, 07:21 PM

I refuse to eat veal too. I told my boyfriend (4 years ago) that I would never eat Veal so don't ask, don't try. Well......he tried last year. I was so

,
I would not eat it and chewed him out for not respecting my wishes. He won't try that again. I've never eaten much red meat, only chicken and fish. I don't know how I could be a vegaterian My blood tests results last month showed I'm not getting enough protein. IHe wants me to eat more red meat. I'm having a very hard time with that one.
I must admit, I do have leather products. It seems to be an accepted practice with cows. I know it sounds hypocritical and it is. Weird how some things are tolerated and others aren't.

Snowshoe · 11-29-2006, 08:11 PM

LOL, now you all really have me thinking...

In my opinion, there is virtually no way for a farmer to mass produce bovine or porcine products with out engaging in some form of cruelty. For one thing, in order to produce enough beef/pork/milk etc to make money, you'd have to have alot of animals.

Let's face it, realestate isn't cheap, so in order to make a profit you'd have to purchase land no one else would want (swampy, hilly, mostly dirt, etc.) in order to have enough land to have enough animals to (gasp!) make the profit.

And to keep enough cows and bulls fed, you'd probably not buy the best food in the world. After all, these animals are your business, not your pets, so you'd cut corners where you could.

(much like puppy millers do)

Then, of course it's cheaper to breed your own cows then to keep buying more, so they'd probably be in bred (there's that cost cutting again).

Of course, veternarian's are expensive, so you'd probably only do the cheapest vaccinations (if at all) and if an animal died, you'd probably just bury it somewhere.

Just my thoughts, of course. The only way to eliminate that problem is for every person to be vegetarian. We just really have too many people to feed, and American's are so used to a high standard of living that our poor here would be considered well off in many other places.

LOL!!! Ok, I'll stop my ranting and hop down off my sad little soap box.

tirluc · 11-29-2006, 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snowshoe

LOL, now you all really have me thinking...
Just my thoughts, of course. The only way to eliminate that problem is for every person to be vegetarian. We just really have too many people to feed, and American's are so used to a high standard of living that our poor here would be considered well off in many other places.

LOL!!! Ok, I'll stop my ranting and hop down off my sad little soap box.

either become vegetarians (which, sorry, i personally couldn't do....i love my meat [yes, even red meat] too much) or, since scientists are so much into cloning, figure out how to just clone a piece of meat (safely).....then we could feed all the starving people.......

Snowshoe · 11-29-2006, 08:39 PM

Hey now, I didn't say that I was a vegetarian! ;-)

Actually, red meat kind of grosses me out for some reason. But give me turkey or fish and I'm good to go! (sort of like the taco bell commercial!)

SiNNiK · 12-02-2006, 01:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tirluc

JFI...the leather used in shoes, boots, etc is usually from the cattle slaughtered for consumption.....w/ the exception, of course, those made from more expensive (sometimes illegal) leathers.....this is where the WHOLE animal is being used.....most slaughter houses even have people that use the bone, hooves, etc....

Snowshoe, i agree that there are more, shall we say, important cruelty issues that should be addressed.....not only amongst our animals, both domestic and wild, but w/ our people, too.....if man doesn't change his ways we will be our own undoing and things will cease to be......

so i guess it's ok to scream at me about dead animals on my back but it's ok that you have them on your feet or strapped across your shoulder? i don't get it, maybe you could educate me, i love to learn.

**the words "you" and "your" are used loosely, not intended to point to a specific person.

Ace Of Hearts · 12-02-2006, 01:14 PM

hey now, let us not accuse farmers. I am one.

We farmers and ranchers do what we do for a living, and I agree, some take it to the more extreme and advanced stage of things. But they can't be blamed. Milk and beef producs now are bigger than they were years ago, and more people are taking the advantage. I think it isn't the best idea to sloture when cows are only so old, sence life anymore is a privilage to many animals. But there really is no reason to take it out on farmers.
And i know that pork is very popular now too. And i'm sure us 4-H people don't take it to well when people say that everyone should bea vegi because of the poor animals. every animal i have ever had has loved, lived, and has been bred for the sale. it is sad because many of us has made them our pets, but what can you do? Seriously. Without meat, people would be sick and die. Maybe we should just limit the amount of meat used or made. that would save the animals, and could feed people world wide. This thread has been changed now from coats to meat. But i would just like to get everyone to notice that you can't blame the farmers nd ranchers for anything. Just to put a stop to it before it begins.
Thank you for your time to read and think about my opinion.

iwantmypup · 01-31-2007, 10:41 AM

Sure u guys say from hunted aniimals . but the only reason some ppl hunt them is for the fur!

DOBERMAN_07 · 01-31-2007, 11:45 AM

Silly hippies.

Fur coats are not wrong and neither is eating meat or hunting for sport. Animals are just that, animals. We use them to better our lives and thats how it has been for thousands of years and it shouldn't change. Just as you cant stand people wearing fur coats, I cant stand people who talk to their pets and treat them as humans.

(Im mean, I know)

Keno's Mom · 02-03-2007, 07:54 PM

I always say "the animal looks a heck of a lot better in its fur coat then YOU ever would"! I'm totally against killing an animal for its fur only.

MagicToller · 02-03-2007, 09:42 PM

Unfortunately, the practice is unlikely to dissapear. What bothers me the most is not the practice itself (Although it does disturb me and I will never purchase a fur coat), but the techniques used to kill the animal (if that much, some people skin the animals alive because certain methods damage the coat of the animal). At the very least, countries should enforce stricter laws on humane treatment for fur and meat animals.. no animal should have to be subjected through such a process while consciously feeling the excrutiating pain.

drfong · 02-04-2007, 07:57 PM

Because we aren't. We don't all feel the same way. I have no problem with you choosing to be one, but I have no problem with eating meat. We could all probable eat less of it, but it sure is good!

Mermaid · 02-04-2007, 09:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snowshoe

If you wonder about why different kinds of steak cost differently, it basically what is done to the cow before they slaughter it.

This statement could not be more false. Different cuts of meat are simply from different body parts. I won't get into an animal rights discussion here, but animals that are produced for food are certainly not treated in a cruel manner. Food animals are treated with respect and care. Anyone who says differently does not know the truth, and is paying too much attention to the misinformed propaganda that radical AR groups perpetuate.

Laurelin · 02-06-2007, 01:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snowshoe

To play Devil's Advocate

:

We farm raise cows to have beef, milk, cheese, and leather.

We farm raise pigs for bacon, sausage, and other pork products.

What is the difference in raising a chinchilla for fur, and raising a cow for leather?

I would never wear fur, myself. However, food, shelter, and clothing are necessities of the human condition.

Because...

Chinchillas are cute, Silly! Scout shall demonstrate for you. Didn't you know?

Laurelin · 02-06-2007, 01:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tirluc

when you use the cow hide and eat the meat you are utilizing the majority of the animal......but how many people eat the chinchilla/mink/stoat/whatever?....all that gets used is the fur.....as i said in my previous post...i have no problem w/ using furs/hides if the rest of the animal is used as well....as much as possible, that is....even our ancestors didn't waste the animal.....

chins are really really small, it takes about 250 of them to make ONE coat. You wouldn't get much meat off of them.

Wimble Woof · 02-06-2007, 01:22 AM

Quote:

Animals are just that, animals. We use them to better our lives and thats how it has been for thousands of years and it shouldn't change. Just as you cant stand people wearing fur coats, I cant stand people who talk to their pets and treat them as humans.

Really this is a subject that needs more attention than weather fur and meat are wrong.....
Killing for fur alone, yes is barbaric...
Killing for food, is nature.
Killing for food and using fur ( rabbits, cows for leather ect.) even better! Less that is being wasted off the animal.

DOBERMAN_07 · 02-06-2007, 03:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wimble Woof

Really this is a subject that needs more attention than weather fur and meat are wrong.....
Killing for fur alone, yes is barbaric...
Killing for food, is nature.
Killing for food and using fur ( rabbits, cows for leather ect.) even better! Less that is being wasted off the animal.

Werd

Wasting the animal after extracting only fur is wrong but using everything from it is fine

nrhareiner · 02-06-2007, 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by doglvr

Fur coats are a luxury/status symbol. Shoes, food, etc. are necessities. I agree that the way animals are treated is inhumane. I haven't eaten veal for years after I saw a documentary on how the animals are kept. Now, I've added pork to my list of nonos since I saw how the pigs are confined in order to have "tender" meat. These are the things we should be dealing with. I eat chicken & fish and, I know, people will say they are abused too. But I do have to eat something besides vegetables. The problem is I don't have recipes for vegetarian food. Most of my meals are vegetables & pasta.

What can we do to improve conditions for cattle, pigs, etc.?

Do you drink Milk, eat chees or any other dairy product? Do you know how dairy farmers keep their cattle and calves (heifers). They are kept a lot like veil feeders are kept. This is done for many reason mostly b/c it is the best way to make sure they are feed and well kept. Veil feeders are kept the way they are kept for the same reason along with the need to keep the maet tender. There is no other way to do it and get the same end product.

If you do not like the way it is done then of corse do not eat or buy it. However there is no other good way to get the same end product.

As for the ways to keep pigs, feeder cattle and other demesticated animal for food. With the price of land in many areas of the country this is the best use of resorses. There are very few areas of the country to free range cattle and it would be next to imposible to free range pigs, sheep and many other animals.

Heidi

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snowshoe

LOL, now you all really have me thinking...

In my opinion, there is virtually no way for a farmer to mass produce bovine or porcine products with out engaging in some form of cruelty. For one thing, in order to produce enough beef/pork/milk etc to make money, you'd have to have alot of animals.

Let's face it, realestate isn't cheap, so in order to make a profit you'd have to purchase land no one else would want (swampy, hilly, mostly dirt, etc.) in order to have enough land to have enough animals to (gasp!) make the profit.

And to keep enough cows and bulls fed, you'd probably not buy the best food in the world. After all, these animals are your business, not your pets, so you'd cut corners where you could.

(much like puppy millers do)

Then, of course it's cheaper to breed your own cows then to keep buying more, so they'd probably be in bred (there's that cost cutting again).

Of course, veternarian's are expensive, so you'd probably only do the cheapest vaccinations (if at all) and if an animal died, you'd probably just bury it somewhere.

Just my thoughts, of course. The only way to eliminate that problem is for every person to be vegetarian. We just really have too many people to feed, and American's are so used to a high standard of living that our poor here would be considered well off in many other places.

LOL!!! Ok, I'll stop my ranting and hop down off my sad little soap box.

Actually that is wrong. Dairy farmers and farmers who raise feeder calves feed the very best feed. Most of the time they have the best land that can be found as they grow what they feed. It does not cost any more to farm good land them poor land. Actually less as they do not need as much in way of furtalizer and such. They have to have enough land to grow what then need and to get ride of the weast. Some megga farms are having problems with this end of the business. They also buy was produces of business like beer manufatuars. They still buy quite a bit from their local co op but when you think about the number of animals it is nothing.

They use the best of breeding practises to get the best animal posible as end product. These farmers do not keep bulls they use Frozen seman and all cows are bred AI. Dairy cattle are bred once a year. About 3 months after calving. Feeder calves are bred about the same way however some will calve 2 times a year one year and only once the next year. However the farmers who breed feeder calves are not nessacarally the ones who will raise them to market size. Cattle farmers that do not have land to free rome/feed specalize in what they do. Some are breeders then sell the feeders to anouther farmer who will raise them and sell them at about 1200-1800 lbs.

Again there are very very few cattle farms who keep bulls. It is not cost effective. If they do keep a bull/s they will change them out every 2 years as they will keep the heifers, sell the bulls/stears and when the cows get to a certain age they are sold.

The work these farmers/ranchers put into these animals is unreal. They work from sun up or before feeding and doing what is nessacary depending on what they are raising. THey are feed 3 times a day. There is the clain up making sure that all the auto waters are working and not frozen in the winter. In the summer making sure they are not too hot as this will kill a cow/pig in a hart beat. I could go on as to the work envolved in what these farmers do. However until you work on a large farm or know people who own one you will have no idea what goes into getting the food we eat.

Heidi

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mermaid

This statement could not be more false. Different cuts of meat are simply from different body parts. I won't get into an animal rights discussion here, but animals that are produced for food are certainly not treated in a cruel manner. Food animals are treated with respect and care. Anyone who says differently does not know the truth, and is paying too much attention to the misinformed propaganda that radical AR groups perpetuate.

I will have to agree. Farmers who raise cattle and other feed animals large and small feed and treat them very well. It is their livly hood. Keeping them happy and healthy produces a better product along with good breeding, feeding practices.

Heidi

sobreeze · 02-06-2007, 01:42 PM

i have a farm raise my own meat beef and milk from cattle lamb from sheep hogs for ham and bacon chickens eggs and meat it is alright if you do not want to were fur but there are farms that raise some animals just for that it is there living its very hard to make a living on a farm when you go to the store and buy ground beef that steer not only supplied you with meat but talo for soap hides for shoes now leather does not have hair or fur on it as a shoe but did when it was on the steer i love all my animals even the ones we butcher i take very good care of them and in case you forgot or did not know wnen this counrty was being built 1600s to the late 1800s frontiers men and women mostly wore hides and furs from wild and domestacated livestock they could not go to walmart and buy a winter coat we have freedoms because of these people so if others do not or do ware furs is that not there rights i do not wear fur coats but do wear furlined winter wear as it is very warm when out taking care of livestock in tempertures around 0 just my thoughts and you do not have to agree its your right

ilovemychihuahua · 02-06-2007, 05:48 PM

So...................do any of yall agree w/ me?

DOBERMAN_07 · 02-06-2007, 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ilovemychihuahua

So...................do any of yall agree w/ me?

I agree that killing JUST for the fur is wrong. But if you kill the animal for the fur and then use the meat/bones for other stuff then Im ok with it.

As long as nothing is wasted.