I'm Having a Hard Time With This One....

Renoman · 10-13-2007, 05:25 PM

In my work, I see young kids all day long. During my interview with them, it is necessary for them to sign documents such as contracts.

I am appalled at the number of 17/18 and 19 year olds that cannot write in cursive. They don't know how and they are not taught in school. They can print their names, but that's it.

I remember being taught how to write in 3rd grade... Mrs. Wilson.. who was about 100 then, made us practice our handwriting lessons each day.

One applicant told me they don't teach handwriting in school anymore because all their papers have to be typed.

Have computers eliminated the need for students to know how to write? Is this true?

If that's the case, I'm thankful I have no kids in school today.

Inga · 10-13-2007, 05:57 PM

I agree Renoman. It seems a little scary that kids can't write at all. What if something drastic happens and the computers all blow up. LOL Ok, too many movies. I don't like the fact that people cannot write though. When I am doing my rescue project, I have run across teenagers that don't know their address. I have to point out the number on the house. I wish I were kidding about that but I am not. With computers and cell phones, everyone is connected to someone, but completely disconnected to the people right next to them. I think it is a sad fact about life today, but that is just me.

Renoman · 10-13-2007, 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inga

I agree Renoman. It seems a little scary that kids can't write at all. What if something drastic happens and the computers all blow up. LOL Ok, too many movies. I don't like the fact that people cannot write though. When I am doing my rescue project, I have run across teenagers that don't know their address. I have to point out the number on the house. I wish I were kidding about that but I am not. With computers and cell phones, everyone is connected to someone, but completely disconnected to the people right next to them. I think it is a sad fact about life today, but that is just me.

Inga, you're right, it's very sad. It scares the sh$t out of me that with all the advances of modern technology some of life's basics are being left behind.... again, I'm glad I don't have a child in the school systems of today.

Puppy_love_122 · 10-13-2007, 06:30 PM

At my school we use laptops for most of our school work suchas notes and reports and essays and stuff assigned from the book. But we do have to write for tests and handouts and such. Not everyone has laptops though so some people write for everything but I have one so ....ya... But it is a private school, they dont do this at the public schools around here, or in the grade schools.

digits mama · 10-13-2007, 06:34 PM

I agree with all of the above.

What I see down here in south Mississippi is the amount of folks that cant read or write. LOTS of people in fact. Mostly with the people that are 30 and up really. From what I understand..If a child back then was falling behind in reading or arithmetic they would give up. They would put them in "special" classes that did nomore than allow a kid to sit in the class and cheat. If they didnt master cheating they would fail. After a few years of failing they would "socially promote". By the time the kids were in high school they were considered hopeless and graduated at the bottom of thier classes.

from what I understand now. The teachers are offered major incentives if they work after school to tutor. It has become a great thing for the teachers to try a little harder, make more money and for the kids to have more one on one. It is helping immensly.

Love's_Sophie · 10-14-2007, 12:33 AM

I won't get too involved in this one, because I personally don't think it is "all" the school's and technology's fault why students are the way they are...

My husband is interning at a reservation school and his 12th graders barely have 5th grade concept levels...true, some of it is because of schooling, that the fact that how many teachers just 'give up' or 'pass' kids before they are really ready? However, how many of these kids have actively involved parents, or other family members in their lives too? Alot of the at risk youth that I have worked with have really no support system, minus those of us who are willing to set aside time during the week to hang out with them, and talk, do homework, etc...

Anyway, like I said, I won't go too deep into this one, because tis not just the school system, I assure you...

SammyDog · 10-14-2007, 12:42 AM

No, its mostly the kids not wanting to learn it. Well, thats the case in my city

Love's_Sophie · 10-14-2007, 12:54 AM

However, alot of the 'at risk' youth have been told so many times that they are failures anyway, so why would they want to learn??? I should have mentioned that it's not just the kids either...yes, you have to want something, but you also have to have a reason to desire something too...if you don't have the positive encouragement that you need, then that saps all desire right out of ya...

FilleBelle · 10-14-2007, 12:54 AM

I couldn't agree more with the observation that some of the kids just don't want to learn it, but I wonder if you have ever considered WHY these few don't want to learn. I suspect Love's Sophie is onto something.

I am a high school teacher, by the way, and I find the apathy at my school to be a nearly overwhelming obstacle to doing my job. I do not believe this attitude is caused simply by my students' desire to be contrary, however. There are a multitude of factors that contribute to a young person's affective filter being impenetrable.

sillylilykitty · 10-14-2007, 01:51 AM

I am 19, I know how to write in cursive (my have forgotten how to write a couple letters though since I never need to write in cursive and prefer printing). I was taught how in elementary and then again in the 8th grade and that was it. But I was taught, and I went to a public school in Hawaii (supposedly the 2nd to last worst state in the US for learning in grade school)!

Gauge23 · 10-14-2007, 08:58 AM

LovesSophie, I totally agree with you. I taught at an inner city school in one of the most gang ridden cities in the southeast and very few students had a support system at home. They feel no self-worth and cover it up by acting out in certain ways. I had one 14 yr old (in the 6th grade) tell me he did not need to learn how to count b/c he would hire someone to do it for him (when he became a famous rapper). This wasn't a class clown, this kid was dead serious. He was also a convicted felon. Many of my students could barely read or write english. ( I taught spanish 6th - 8th) Many teachers go into these schools with high hopes and then realize after a short time, the best thing they can do is keep the kids in the seats with no fights. There is no recourse these days. You can't write kids up or send them out of the room b/c there is a list that goes to the administration and you will end up getting fired. They would rather a student beat the heck out of the teacher than have that student sent out of the room. Positive and negative reinforcement? HA!! I would love to see one of those School Board members try to use that on one of the IVL's that I had! I am lucky made it out of that school alive.

Durbkat · 10-14-2007, 09:18 AM

I was never taught cursive either, I believe I was taught once in the 3rd grade and thats it. I can write in cursive but it looks horrible.

Puppy_love_122 · 10-14-2007, 07:16 PM

I was taught cursive in 2nd grade and was required to write in it(unless we got 10% off) through 8th grade untill highschool, but I went to the same school that whole time...so...ya. But now in high school I dont have to write in cursive, if we do write, we do most our work on laptops (well I do but some people dont have one)I'm not sure about the public schools around here though I dont think they have to write in cursive, but I dont know, I've always gone to a Catholic School, and still do.

nlkeple · 10-14-2007, 08:22 PM

I am a Elementary Education Major, and a Mom. There are so many things that together create this problem. It is not just the school or the parents it is everything. The entire way this country looks at education is where to start when trying to look at this problem. In FL lots of teachers end up teaching to the FCAT (a standardized test that students have to pass in order to advance to the next grade). How well a school does on this test is also what determines funding for the schools. Because of this a huge amount of time is spent making sure everyone will do good on the test. Unfortunatly for the teachers and schools this leaves little time for the "frills." Teachers get somewhere around $20 per student (this varies by school and by district) to provide the supplies for their class for the entire year. If the class has 20 student (which is too many students) the teacher has about $400 for supplies and that has to cover EVERYTHING. Teachers have to frequently provide their own chalk. Many times teacher have resorted to asking for things like tissues on the school supplies list because they do not have enough in their $400 budget to cover those sorts of things. Most students don't even bring pencils to school and even fewer actual bring the things on their lists. The teacher that I intern with spent about $6,000 of her own money to provide for her classroom. There are a lot of times when teachers request conferences with parents and the parents decline or the parents agree but don't show up. There are times when teachers go the entire year without seeing the parent even once. This isn't because parents are bad, but society has set it up so that usually both parents have to work and that makes home life very busy (lots of parents have to choose between work and a conference). Other times a parents income may be so limited that the gas and time off could actually affects if the family eats that night. There are also times when a parent is unable to communicate with the teacher even if they come to the conference because of a language barrier. It is easy to tell the parents to do more, something simple like reading to kids makes a HUGE difference, but in a lot of cases parents are still struggling with English and are not able to read. In other cases parents cannot afford to provide pencils and other school supplies for their kids. This is a profession I am going into and I have a lot of passion for. Instead of complaining or whining do something.

<gets on soapbox>
This is not a problem that some money or a donated box of books will solve (not that those things are bad and if you have them go ahead and donate them) but this problem really above all else needs TIME. If you have good handwriting then go volunteer to help in a 3rd grade class (or which ever grade your district teaches it in). If you like to paint show up with a box of supplies and be willing to stay and help.
<gets off soap box>

I hope this at least gives some insight into what teachers and schools and parents go through to educate kids. The good news is that since the whole system needs help, there are spots that anyone with any interest can help with.

It takes a village to raise a child

FilleBelle · 10-14-2007, 08:54 PM

I am applauding you, nlkeple!! You wrote a beautiful post that still managed to be very diplomatic about sensitive issues. Nice job (and much appreciated)!

digits mama · 10-14-2007, 10:26 PM

****CLAPCLAPCLAPCLAP**** Fabulous post! nlkeple

Cassie Nova · 10-15-2007, 06:43 PM

Thank you, nlkeple! That was very eloquent and completely truthful.

The SAT requires that students copy a small portion of a contract (in cursive) and sign it at the bottom (in cursive). I heard of one incident where not one student in that testing room could write in cursive. The monitor had to write the alphabet on the board. Legally, that shouldn't have happened since no assistance on the SAT is allowed, but you get my point. When I took the SAT, the monitor said something along the lines of "if you can't write in cursive, just print and connect all your letters."

In my opinion, many school districts lack passionate, patient and prepared teachers. Around here, a good percentage of teachers came into the job loving it but since then have been burned out, per se. I understand that teaching is not an easy job and I fully respect every single teacher I meet, but if they get tired of their job, they simply should not be there. Either a new job or a renewal of old feelings would be ideal for these teachers.

I will not exempt students from the blame, because we are often most of the problem. One of my teachers once told me that only 50% of classtime is used efficiently because so much time has to be put into simply getting the students ready to learn. If students were disciplined more seriously at home and school, there'd be less of a problem. If it were up to me, we'd have fewer but longer classes (IMO, you can't be trying to learn all kinds of different things at once - it's better to focus on one thing) with less students per class. Of course, that would require more teachers, classrooms, and more total hours in school to fufill college needs, which would be very hard to achieve.

Anyway, I'll stop ranting now...