[mrslloyd09]

I'm curious to know who feeds a prey model diet and who feeds a BARF diet? Just trying to understand each one a little better as well as the pros and cons of each as I'm fully overloaded by the past two hours of research that I've done but that's an entirely different post.

[aisling]

Good post. I'm about to convert my two dogs, and was planning on using the information from this book (http://www.switchingtoraw.com/) to do it. However, I've got a knowledgable and experienced breeder friend who feeds and has been feeding the prey model diet and the information she gave me has me scratching my head.

Can't wait to see others replies.

[misty073]

My understanding is prey model is the whole animal fed to the dog over a short time so they get all the nutrients they need from a variety of different animals. Barf is feeding whats available and suplimenting what you cant feed. And I think Barf has veggies??

Thats how I understand it...hopefully someone can clarify


I cant feed prey model to my dogs. For one they are so small I had a hard time getting the meat/bone ratio right. So I feed a ground chicken and bone mix and add stuff to it to make it a complete meal.

[briteday]

I have small breed dogs and feed prey model. I chose not to feed BARF because I have one dog (the reason we originally switched to raw) who is allergic to grains. Prey model, in simple terms, is 80% meat, 10% bone, 10% organs. BARF diets have recipes to follow that often include veggies, fruits, and grains, among lots of other stuff. But from my perspective, prey model is easier due to fewer ingredients and a no-brainer to pull a chunk of meat out of the freezer vs. mixing up recipes. I have enough kitchen duty with the humans here.

[lucidity]

So I guess premade raw (frozen medallions and patties) are BARF then? I think they have veggies and fruits in them...

This thread is confusing, lol.

[Nallah06]

Originally Posted by lucidity

So I guess premade raw (frozen medallions and patties) are BARF then? I think they have veggies and fruits in them...

This thread is confusing, lol.

Premade raw would follow a BARF guideline by adding fruits, veggies, and grains in with the meat. Not all companies add those extras in though, you just have to read before you purchase. Most of the big names like Natures Variety & Primal do, but if you were to find a raw dealer, sometimes they offer grinds of just meat, organ and bone.

I follow the prey model guidelines. Basically it just comes down to what you think your dog needs or what you'd like them to have in their diet. There's big debate (which I won't get into) on whether or not dogs NEED fruits and veggies in their diet to make it complete. My thoughts are that they do not, which is why I feed prey model.

My dogs do get ground up meats on occasion, but there is never any extras added in. Just meat, bone & organ. Sure, they get some veggies and fruits as treats sometimes, but I don't consider it part of their diet to make it complete.

Dr. Billinghurst I believe was kind of the guy who came up with the BARF diet and he's got a few books out there, if that was the way you wanted to go. Prey model is just as simple as following a few rules-yet you can be flexible with it from day to day. I try to follow these rules for prey model:

*80% meat 10% Bone 10% Organ (5% being liver, other 5% all others)
*Variety
*I try to feed more red meat

It really just comes down to how complicated you want to make it. I've been doing half raw now or the last 3 weeks and its getting easier every day. I hope to be all raw with them by next month.

[Kathyy]

Max gets prey model and once a month gets whole prey. I balance his diet to NRC levels and keep track of things on Nutritiondata best I can.

I know, I think I have it down now though. Feeding dogs is a continuum. It doesn't have to be an absolute this way or the highway. As long as the AAFCO or NRC levels are met AND it suits YOUR dog you can feed just about anything cooked anyway you like. Avoid the incredibly nasty unnamed meat meals and digests if possible of course!

[misty073]

See now I am confused LOL and I guess this is why I just say I feed raw LOL.

I feed only meat bone and organs. sometimes veggies and sometimes rice (but not very often, more so if we had it left over and I didnt have the full amount of meat thawed)

I assumed prey model is buying a chicken cutting it up and feeding the parts over a few days. Or any other animal/fish. I always feed the same meal (pretty much and they only get beef and chicken because I cant find anything else affordable) and supliment incase I am missing something.

I guess I have always thought...here is a rabbit, I am going to cut it into pieces and thats the meal for the week (or next few days) Next meal a chicken cut up and fed over a few days. Barf I always thought was feeding a mixture of meat sources but not always the whole animal, therefore needing to supliment with other things to make sure all the nutrients are there.

Just to add a question here...how many raw feeders feed pork? I dont because its something I have never been sure of...plus in all the premixes I have found you never see pork. But pork is usually very cheap (one day I was at the store and they were selling big pork chunks, cant remember what the cut was....but it would have fed my dogs for a year lol it was $20) and pork ribs are aways cheaper than beef.

[misty073]

Originally Posted by Kathyy

.... As long as the AAFCO or NRC levels are met AND it suits YOUR dog you can feed just about anything cooked anyway you like. Avoid the incredibly nasty unnamed meat meals and digests if possible of course!

Sorry this confused me a bit? What are you cooking? and what do you mean by unnamed meat meals and digests?

[MoosMom]

Yoshi is on a raw diet. The staple in my house is whole chickens. It keeps me from guessing portions. I feed calf liver to cover his liver intake and he gets rib bones for snacks. Usually one a day.

Yoshi likes bananas and other little tid bits of things we give him, but I use that as treats so that I don't have to buy commercial things. I suppose you can say I feed "prey model"

I did find the more I read on feeding raw the more confused I got at first, but once I started feeding it got easy.

[lucidity]

Originally Posted by misty073

Just to add a question here...how many raw feeders feed pork? I dont because its something I have never been sure of...plus in all the premixes I have found you never see pork. But pork is usually very cheap (one day I was at the store and they were selling big pork chunks, cant remember what the cut was....but it would have fed my dogs for a year lol it was $20) and pork ribs are aways cheaper than beef.

The reason why there are no raw pork dishes in human food, and premade raw dog food is because pigs are carriers of worms--tapeworms, roundworms, etc. that can only be killed my cooking.

[Willowy]

Originally Posted by lucidity

The reason why there are no raw pork dishes in human food, and premade raw dog food is because pigs are carriers of worms--tapeworms, roundworms, etc. that can only be killed my cooking.

This is no longer a problem with American pork, but be careful not to get any imported pork if you intend to feed it raw. With pork prices where they are, a raw feeder should be able to find some good deals.

[dieterherzog]

I do a combination of prey model and recipes from Dr. Pitcairn's book. The reason I do this is in my understanding:

(a) The prey model works on the premise of emulating the feeding pattern of wolves in the wild. This means that you have to feed heads, feathers, fur, bones, meat, offal and every single part of the animal - and every single part of an animal offers different nutrients. I feed whole chickens that have been prepped at the grocery store so I don't get heads, feet or feathers. I don't have any access to wild meat and will never get to actually feed a whole animal. I seldom feed intestines or tripe either. My dog gets fed RMBs and offal for dinner - beef ribs, lamb ribs, chicken parts, oxtail etc.

(b) In the morning I feed a very small amount of veges (about 10%), grains (10%), meat (80%) and supplements. In the latest edition of Dr. Pitcairn's book, he makes several statements addressing Tom Lonsdale's (prey model) methods. I find that for the most part, Dr. Pitcairn addresses issues that are very pertinent to my views and he gives a clear and concise reasons why he thinks veges are actually good for dogs and that the prey model may not be suitable for every dog. I rotate his recipes with Nature's Variety raw medallions to ensure that I get novel proteins into my dog's diet like rabbit and venison. Sometimes I feed canned sardines in water. Dr. Pitcairn was the one who originally came up with the idea of BARF. I disagree slightly with the Billinghurst version of BARF which calls for more fruits and veges than is necessary so I don't follow that.

The best advice I got when starting raw feeding was to get a whole chicken and feed every single part of the animal according to prey model for about a month or two. After that, you can see how your dog is doing and then decide which would work best for your dog.

[Rawfeederr]

PREY MODEL RAW! All the way.

BARF is crap... dogs do NOT need vegetables, and the BARF diet is almost 40% veggies.

[Rawfeederr]

Originally Posted by misty073

My understanding is prey model is the whole animal fed to the dog over a short time so they get all the nutrients they need from a variety of different animals. Barf is feeding whats available and suplimenting what you cant feed. And I think Barf has veggies??

Thats how I understand it...hopefully someone can clarify


I cant feed prey model to my dogs. For one they are so small I had a hard time getting the meat/bone ratio right. So I feed a ground chicken and bone mix and add stuff to it to make it a complete meal.

No, prey model isn't feeding whole animals all the time. You CAN feed them if you want, but feeding prey model is feeding what a dog would eat in the wild. Meat, bones, & organs. No veggies/grains.

[dieterherzog]

Originally Posted by Rawfeederr

No, prey model isn't feeding whole animals all the time. You CAN feed them if you want, but feeding prey model is feeding what a dog would eat in the wild. Meat, bones, & organs. No veggies/grains.

Doesn't a dog in the wild eat fur, heads and limbs as well? It is my understanding as well that the prey model means WHOLE PREY that's why some raw feeders give their dogs/cat a whole mouse.

[Rawfeederr]

Originally Posted by dieterherzog

Doesn't a dog in the wild eat fur, heads and limbs as well? It is my understanding as well that the prey model means WHOLE PREY that's why some raw feeders give their dogs/cat a whole mouse.

Yes they do eat that in the wild. But what I meant to say is that you don't HAVE to feed whole animals.

[phoebespeople]

Phoebe is on the "Grocery Store Meat Counter Modified Prey Model Diet" otherwise known as the "Whatever I Can Get At The Butcher That Is Under $1.50/lb Diet"
They are similar to the "If It's Part Of A Dead Animal And Your Dog Can Chew It And Swallow It, Then It's Dog Food" diet.

80% meat, 10% bone, 10% organ (half of that liver).
No cooking, ever.
No salt, no sugar, no grains, no table scraps.

Oh, and no protein meal from rendering plants either. That kinda' rules out anything that comes from a store in a bag or a can.

[misty073]

Originally Posted by phoebespeople

Phoebe is on the "Grocery Store Meat Counter Modified Prey Model Diet" otherwise known as the "Whatever I Can Get At The Butcher That Is Under $1.50/lb Diet"
They are similar to the "If It's Part Of A Dead Animal And Your Dog Can Chew It And Swallow It, Then It's Dog Food" diet.

LOL @this...I Guess thats the diet my dogs are one too LOL

[DobManiac]

http://www.dogaware.com/wdjhomemade2.html

This is above all my favorite instruction manual for feeding a raw diet. It's short, simple to understand and gives the owner room to make adjustments to fit their dog and their lifestyle. Personally, I don't see the need to label your diet plan. Eventually, you will feed whatever works best for you and your dogs. This will take into account health, budget, availability of meat, and time. I thought you might find this paragraph interesting on prey model....

Prey model
There is a style of raw feeding called “prey model” that advocates feeding a diet based on whole prey, and excludes anything else, such as dairy, vegetables, fruit, or supplements. This is based on a desire to mimic the diet of the wolf in the wild. The true prey model diet involves feeding large chunks of mostly meat with small amounts of bone, as well as organs and eggs. It is certainly possible to feed a good diet using this model, but there are some factors that should be taken into consideration.
Feeding parts is not the same as feeding whole prey. When wolves in the wild eat a deer, they consume almost everything except the stomach contents and some of the hardest bones from the skull and legs. That includes not only the muscle meat, bones, liver, and heart, but the eyes, tongue, brain, blood, intestines, kidneys, lungs, and various other organs. If you are not feeding actual whole prey, you may be missing parts of the diet that include important nutrients.

In addition, whole, large, grass-fed prey such as deer, moose, and bison have different nutrient profiles than animals that are farm-raised, and smaller animals such as chickens. The nutrient content of animals raised in various ways (wild animals, grain-fed animals, animals raised on grass from depleted soils) also varies widely. Even if you feed whole rabbits or chickens, the nutrition will not match that of the large ruminants that our dogs evolved to eat.

While some people swear by prey model diets, I believe that there is no benefit to be gained by leaving healthy foods such as dairy and vegetables out of the diet. The more restrictions you place on a diet and the less variety you feed, the higher the likelihood that something may be missing. I believe that adding foods and supplements not found in the natural diet of the wolf can help our dogs live the longest, healthiest lives possible.