Food to Feed to a med-lg breed puppy??

Cairo · 11-10-2009, 10:27 AM

hi, Very confused as to what to feed my new 3 mo old, 17.4 lb mixed-breed puppy. He was on First Mate puppy and the vet said not to feed that but to feed Med-ical Adolescent (sold by the vet) one reason because of too fast bone growth (what should the phospherous/calcium ratio be?). The first few ingredients on the Med-ical bag don't look so good?...The vet also said to feed a food that is specific to puppies..first few ingredients are: chicken meal, rice, oat flour, corn, dried egg powder, natural flavour, tomato pumace...
thanks!

Labsnothers · 11-10-2009, 12:55 PM

I don't think small and medium sized dogs are at near the risk of problems from fast growth and too much calcium as the larger ones. I would almost be more tempted to change vets than foods. I would stick with the First Mate for at least a month or 2 until he adjusts to his new home. Puppy chows are formulated for the fastest possible growth, not good for large breeds, hence the common early switch to adult chow for them.

What to switch to is you switch? With the solid information available, you might as well go to Petco, close your eyes, throw a dart, and see what it hits. There are many strong opinions around based on the ingredients, but very few facts about how much of each nutrient is available or how dogs fare eating a given food. Personally, I have seen thousands of healthy dogs eating Pro Plan. All the evidence I have suggests the other common brands are just as good. If dogs do so much better on the wonder premium foods, why do I never see other dogs that look better than mine?

Look around at other people's dogs and ask what they are feeding. Out of 20 dogs, I have only had to change food a couple of times. The first time, our daughter's 4-H leaders were selling a food. I took a look at their Dobe, and decided my research was finished. Unlike the Purina we were feeding, he would eat enough of the meat based product, his ribs didn't show too badly.

nico8 · 11-10-2009, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Labsnothers

What to switch to is you switch? With the solid information available, you might as well go to Petco, close your eyes, throw a dart, and see what it hits. There are many strong opinions around based on the ingredients, but very few facts about how much of each nutrient is available or how dogs fare eating a given food. Personally, I have seen thousands of healthy dogs eating Pro Plan. All the evidence I have suggests the other common brands are just as good. If dogs do so much better on the wonder premium foods, why do I never see other dogs that look better than mine?

Yet another copy and paste auto response from Labsnothers. I'm surprised you didn't tell him that his dog is overweight and that he should be able to feel the dog's ribs and then give him the link to the pedigree site with the weight chart...Not to mention your over-the-top defensiveness. Nothing had been said about "wonder premium foods" until you brought it up. Please stop relentlessly spewing propaganda. Seriously. Stop. It seems like you might actually know a thing or 2 about dogs and be able to help people with some of the various issues that come up, but you destroy any credibility that you might have with the trash that you insert in your posts. And by trash I mean garbage. Like I've said before, you're hurting whatever agenda it is that you do have with you way you constantly rub it in everyone's face. I don't care if you feed your dog Pro Plan,Science Diet,Ol' Roy or whatever but I do take issue with your forum etiquette. It seems that you can't post without somehow mentioning the brilliance of those at your dog guide school or attempting to bash higher priced foods. You have to get in your little jabs here and there, then you're amazed when people take offense to it and call you out. You try to come across as an expert in all fields and somehow more "enlightened" than the rest of us...it just gets old after awhile. I bet you'd help a lot more people out with your posts if you dropped the uber defensive attitude and this crusade to prove that all dog foods are exactly the same.

Now to the OP... I'd stay with the First Mate at least through the transition period to his new home. Once he's settled in I'd evaluate the dog's overall health and energy level and decide from there if you want to change foods. I wouldn't trust anything the vet sells himself...if he's making a profit from it then your dog's best interests probably aren't coming into play.

Wlfdg · 11-11-2009, 08:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nico8

Yet another copy and paste auto response from Labsnothers. I'm surprised you didn't tell him that his dog is overweight and that he should be able to feel the dog's ribs and then give him the link to the pedigree site with the weight chart...Not to mention your over-the-top defensiveness. Nothing had been said about "wonder premium foods" until you brought it up. Please stop relentlessly spewing propaganda. Seriously. Stop. It seems like you might actually know a thing or 2 about dogs and be able to help people with some of the various issues that come up, but you destroy any credibility that you might have with the trash that you insert in your posts. And by trash I mean garbage. Like I've said before, you're hurting whatever agenda it is that you do have with you way you constantly rub it in everyone's face. I don't care if you feed your dog Pro Plan,Science Diet,Ol' Roy or whatever but I do take issue with your forum etiquette. It seems that you can't post without somehow mentioning the brilliance of those at your dog guide school or attempting to bash higher priced foods. You have to get in your little jabs here and there, then you're amazed when people take offense to it and call you out. You try to come across as an expert in all fields and somehow more "enlightened" than the rest of us...it just gets old after awhile. I bet you'd help a lot more people out with your posts if you dropped the uber defensive attitude and this crusade to prove that all dog foods are exactly the same.

Now to the OP... I'd stay with the First Mate at least through the transition period to his new home. Once he's settled in I'd evaluate the dog's overall health and energy level and decide from there if you want to change foods. I wouldn't trust anything the vet sells himself...if he's making a profit from it then your dog's best interests probably aren't coming into play.

+1Well said nico8.
I find it a little disconcerting when vets push food. Usually it seems to be crappy food? Job security?

nico8 · 11-11-2009, 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wlfdg

+1Well said nico8.
I find it a little disconcerting when vets push food. Usually it seems to be crappy food? Job security?

It's this crappy economy...it'll turn even the best vet into a pusher

Labsnothers · 11-11-2009, 09:26 PM

I am sure the OP appreciates all the fact filled posts.

nico8 · 11-12-2009, 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Labsnothers

I am sure the OP appreciates all the fact filled posts.

Good thing it isn't a requirement that all posts in these forums are 100% fact...because this would be a pretty boring place. I addressed the OP's concerns just like you did, the only difference is that my opinions are in plain sight and you feebly attempt to disguise yours as fact.

Kathyy · 11-13-2009, 09:34 AM

I suggest going to this site, typing puppy in every rating and saving each search for easy reference.
http://www.dogfoodanalysis.com/dog_f...ndex.php/cat/1

Then go to this site http://www.dogfoodproject.com/index....g_food_reviews to study up on what is good and what is nasty in dog food.

Medium sized pups don't have to worry about fast bone growth from eating too much calcium the way giant breeds do but if you like stick to large breed puppy foods.

A lot of work but I didn't find these easy to use links until my dogs were off kibble and eating cooked and raw food! I was flipping 40 pound bags of kibble from giant stacks at my wonderful local feed store. Reading and saving links and all that are much easier!

Once you have an idea what to look for go to your local stores and see what is out there, go home and decide which one to invest in first. No reason to shop obsessively for Harvey Hound Crunches if other perfectly good kibbles are easily found. And no reason not to try a different food next time, just switch slowly.

Labsnothers · 11-13-2009, 08:06 PM

Those sites are highly biased and all their ratings are based on no more than speculation about the ingredients. There is nothing to tie them to how dogs fare on different diets.

mrslloyd09 · 11-14-2009, 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Labsnothers

Those sites are highly biased and all their ratings are based on no more than speculation about the ingredients. There is nothing to tie them to how dogs fare on different diets.

No but they're tools and and like all tools are useful for the task, in this case finding a good food for your dog. I wouldn't use them to say, find a food for my hamster. I would definitely go to your local resources and check out what they have, as well as hunt around on the internet. I would say don't ever take the word of just one website; go on a fact finding mission. This would include friends, co-workers, the person standing in the same aisle as you at the pet store (obviously they're there for a reason). Use common sense (food with whole chicken or chicken meal hmmm? I wonder).The more knowledge you have the better, you're chances are of finding something you love.

Kathyy · 11-14-2009, 12:09 PM

The owner of the dog food project site is a trained nutritionist. Are you?http://www.betterdogcare.com/?page=about

Labsnothers · 11-14-2009, 08:06 PM

Many highly trained people have undisclosed agendas.

nico8 · 11-14-2009, 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Labsnothers

Many highly trained people have undisclosed agendas.

...and we never landed on the moon either. It's allllll a conspiracy.

MoosMom · 11-14-2009, 08:31 PM

Cario! WELCOME TO DF!! And congratz on your new addition. Dog food choices are many anymore and with so many dogs it's not a one size fits all. The links posted here are FABULOUS places to get started. Ultimately the choice is going to be personal. Many people have happy, healthy dogs on store brand dog foods while many of also choose to go with premium foods that lack by pro-ducts and fillers. I personally have started feeding my dog a raw diet and see great results for him. My personal rule of thumb is this, if it has something in it I wouldn't feed my family, then I won't feed it to my dog. Good luck to you and again, welcome!

Labsnothers · 11-14-2009, 09:15 PM

Amazing, vets are not to be trusted because they sell Science Diet, but some unknown on the web is?

nico8 · 11-14-2009, 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Labsnothers

Amazing, vets are not to be trusted because they sell Science Diet, but some unknown on the web is?

The sites that are often recommended by people in these forums rate and recommend various kibble from an array of different companies. They don't support one particular brand or product and they definitely aren't selling that particular brand. Come on Labs, you're comparing apples to oranges and you know it.

sassykzt · 11-14-2009, 11:12 PM

Welcome Cairo! As you can see the food issue gets a lil' heated around here! Please take Nico8's, Kathyy's ,mrslloyd09's advice!! Please DO take a look on the site mentioned By Kathyy! Please know that dogs are carnivores and not herbivores like us-- therefore, grains and excess carbs are unecessary in their diets. Many dog food manufacturers put cheap fillers in their main 5/6ingerdients-- often these are by products from their other manufacturing ventures. Unfortunatley most vets know little about nutrition, (My nephew is a vet - he said they brushed upon it for 3 days throughout his 4 yrs. of school and he went to Cornell)so it is up to you to do your research. Congrats on your new puppy!!!