Beneful?

bully · 10-29-2009, 08:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Labsnothers

What is this companies thing? All the larger service dog schools are non profit organizations. Their bottom line is helping people. Yes, the money has to come from somewhere. However, Nestle, P&G, and Mars don't have the money it would take to induce the schools to recommend a food that lead to a shorter working life for the dogs. Dog food is a very small part of the budget of the schools. They only pay for the food for the very limited part of a dog's life it spends in training.

Did your sales manager help you find those references?

God, you are such an .....! Someone posts heaps of information about how Guide Dog schools actually function, get paid, and why they feed cheap food and you still don't get it.

We all realize you are so emotionally attached to this unnamed guide school and obviously have looked up to them for the last 18 years and take their word like it's from the gospel of Jesus Christ (which is incorrect as well - more on that later). But it's time to grow-up/wake-up and accept the fact that their is better real "FOOD" out their for dogs that actually just might help these animals that you love so dear but will not open your eyes and see the BIG picture for what it is.

Why does it take less then 30 minutes for most people to "get it" and you don't? No it's not hype, or marketing why we are here preaching the word of the lord - it's common sense and scientific fact that real food is better for a dog just like it is better for any animal walking on the face of the earth. So yes that soy-corn-meal-byproduct-preservative laden stuff you call "a complete balanced diet" is actually the bare minimum to keep dogs sustained.

Bravo!!! Keep up the good work.

Ayanla · 10-29-2009, 08:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Labsnothers

Did your sales manager help you find those references?

I don't understand the question. I don't even understand the implication you were trying to make with the question. I'm not sure if you were making a thinly veiled insult to my intelligence or if you were trying to imply I hold some bias against Nestle Purina despite working for a company that profits from their existence. In either case, you only effectively came off sounding like a kid on they playground countering an argument with "oh yeah? well you're a poopyhead!"

Quote:

Originally Posted by Labsnothers

Dog food is a very small part of the budget of the schools.

Is it? Let's look at some actual numbers instead of just pulling "facts" from nowhere.

Guidedogs.com financial statement for 2009 (pdf again, sorry!)

Their stated costs for "dog food and supplies" is $542,000. You're correct that it's only small fraction of their total budget when you factor in all of their operation expenses from payroll to utilities, but it's still not a small number. In fact, I would argue that it's only as small as it is precisely because of their partnership with Hill's.

Unfortunately we can't look at the financial statement or corporate sponsor agreements of the school you supposedly work with, so we just have to go with what's available from other sources who operate in the same field as a not for profit guide dog school.

bully · 10-29-2009, 08:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ayanla

I don't understand the question. I don't even understand the implication you were trying to make with the question. I'm not sure if you were making a thinly veiled insult to my intelligence or if you were trying to imply I hold some bias against Nestle Purina despite working for a company that profits from their existence. In either case, you only effectively came off sounding like a kid on they playground countering an argument with "oh yeah? well you're a poopyhead!"

Is it? Let's look at some actual numbers instead of just pulling "facts" from nowhere.

Guidedogs.com financial statement for 2009 (pdf again, sorry!)

Their stated costs for "dog food and supplies" is $542,000. You're correct that it's only small fraction of their total budget when you factor in all of their operation expenses from payroll to utilities, but it's still not a small number. In fact, I would argue that it's only as small as it is precisely because of their partnership with Hill's.

Unfortunately we can't look at the financial statement or corporate sponsor agreements of the school you supposedly work with, so we just have to go with what's available from other sources who operate in the same field as a not for profit guide dog school.

Excellent work!!

A horse with blinders I tell ya...

croll326 · 10-29-2009, 10:14 AM

If you had someone that fed you would you want them to feed you...

1. Buttered, stale, white bread all day every day for years
2. Balance meals with meat, vegetables, fruits, and other yummy healthy stuff.

Exactly.....

Labsnothers · 10-29-2009, 01:32 PM

One more invalid analogy.

bully · 10-29-2009, 01:38 PM

Hows this one.

You can survive on McDonald's.... They past "stringent testing"

We all see you are OK with McDonalds - now move along !!

croll326 · 10-29-2009, 01:49 PM

Ya especially with their "all white meat" nuggets.....what were they before???? Probably chicken feet, beaks, necks, and anything under the sun.

Has anyone ever watched the movie "Super Size Me" ?

You have to check it out...a guys eats McDonalds 3 times a day for a month and he almost DIES from it....

How is that for an analogy for feeding dogs grocery store kibble?

Here is the link to a youtube video of supersize me......1hr 40 minutes long but you may never eat fast food again.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7Tv_mihMBA

bully · 10-29-2009, 01:59 PM

Argue it or not.

You are feeding your dog fast food essentially by picking up that "inexpensive" grocer store brand just down the street. You might as well hit drive through on the way home too.

Science Diet is a Big Mac
Orijen/EVO/Wellness is a fresh "wrap" or a TV dinner ??
RAW - is a steak dinner with all the fixings

Simple really.

croll326 · 10-29-2009, 02:10 PM

Orijen and EVO have to be better than Subway!! Cmon!!

Jared looks great from eating Sub Way. haha

bully · 10-29-2009, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by croll326

Orijen and EVO have to be better than Subway!! Cmon!!

Jared looks great from eating Sub Way. haha

Is that better

FilleBelle · 10-29-2009, 02:35 PM

I feel the need to clarify the argument here, for the benefit of the OP, who may be thinking that we believe grocery store kibble = Satan.

NOBODY is saying that a dog cannot be happy and healthy on a grocery-store brand kibble. The kids at my high school are happy and healthy, too, and you should see what they give THEM for lunch...badly burnt pepperoni pizza, wilted lettuce "salad", and a carton of chocolate milk.

EVERYONE (with the exception of Labsnothers) is saying that most dogs will be happier and healthier on a premium brand of kibble. Those same kids feel healthier when they get home and their mom has made chicken breast, brown rice, and broccoli coleslaw for dinner and they're happier when they see they get a little bowl of ice cream for dessert.

LABSNOTHERS is saying there is no difference between the two. A corn-based kibble made with animal byproducts and preservatives is identical to a grain-free kibble made with human grade meat. The badly burnt pepperoni pizza is as healthful and as satisfying as the chicken and rice.

Institutions (such as guide dog schools) have hundreds, if not thousands of mouths to feed. They choose what is most healthy for the amount of money they can spend. I can afford something better than burnt pizza, so I don't buy that, even though I could easily live off of it for the rest of my life. I can afford something better than Beneful, so I don't buy that, even though my dog could easily live off it for the rest of his life.

bully · 10-29-2009, 02:38 PM

Thanks FilleBille!

I always know someone will show-up and make sense of my ramblings eventually.

nico8 · 10-29-2009, 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ayanla

Nope. I think what they're feeding is "good enough." I think what they're feeding is heavily influenced by marketing and, likely, food deals the school has with Purina. The same way most vets are affected by marketing and deals with the makers of Science Diet. Vets, even if they work for "guide dog school that shan't be named", don't do nutritional studies nor are they interested in nutrition beyond maybe asking what they eat if the dog is ill or over/under weight. Again, guide dog schools are non-profit organizations with corporate partnerships with food companies.

From The Royal New Zealand Foundation of the Blind

From Dog Guides Canada

Wait...don't hit reply yet. I'm getting to America. I was just showing you that there's a pattern.

from Guide Dogs.com, which services the US and Canada

From Canine Companions for Independence

Nothing to quote, but if you click the link you can see one of their corporate sponsors is Eukanuba

I could keep digging, but I feel that is enough to establish a pattern of "corporate sponsorship" between dog food manufacturers and guide dog schools world wide.

And finally, to address this question:

From Nestle Management Report 2001 (That is a pdf file, not an in browser URL - just a warning)

Well that certainly gives me the warm fuzzies.

Go ahead and tell me that the guide dog school you work with doesn't have a corporate sponsorship with a food company. Since you're working with an unnamed mystery company, it's not like anyone could prove anything different.

She shoots , she scooooooooooooores!

And I agree with everything FilleBelle said...she seemed to sum up both arguments very well.

FilleBelle · 10-29-2009, 02:49 PM

I'm just always afraid that, in all the debating, the actual point will be lost and the OP will just feed Beneful because it's easier to do that than to read everyone's posts.

I dunno...I like to be organized, lol.

ipreferpi · 10-29-2009, 03:04 PM

Keep up the good work! And don't let reality get in the way of that science of yours...

On a different note, I think beneful isn't the best food you could be getting for that price point. If that's what you can afford, many other people have suggested foods like the Kirkland brand, and even Taste of the Wild (both made by diamond), which would be much better (in my opinion) than Beneful.

Something else to mention is that if you look at the serving recommendations on a food, most higher quality foods will require you to feed less, so you'll actually save money or break even with the lower quality foods in the end.

Also, a lot of feed stores and dog food stores will have a buy X number of bags, get one free, which is always nice. Just be sure to ask!

Good luck, and I hope you find something that you and your dog can be happy with.

FilleBelle · 10-29-2009, 03:08 PM

OMG, did you draw that, ipreferpi?!? That is HYSTERICAL!!

You are so getting banned...but you're going out with a bang, lol!!

bully · 10-29-2009, 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ipreferpi

Keep up the good work! And don't let reality get in the way of that science of yours...

OMFG! That is fantastic. ROTFL

canteloupe · 10-29-2009, 03:35 PM

Excellent posts, ayanla! I'm actually inspired by your willingness to do the footwork needed to find your sources. I've been getting lazy, but I'm determined to put a stop to that.

It's immensely frustrating to me when labsnothers ignores your posts, as s/he did with the last one.

Also, good post Fillebelle!

And ipreferpi, great drawing! I can only assume it was inspired by the fish oil thread comments... Well, in addition to all the food threads, of late.

Labsnothers · 10-29-2009, 03:57 PM

I wouldn't want to insult people's intelligence by suggesting they can't see through much of this themselves. Besides, I have a life and I am not on commission.

nico8 · 10-29-2009, 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Labsnothers

I wouldn't want to insult people's intelligence by suggesting they can't see through much of this themselves.

That's right , you just insult people's intelligence by expecting us to believe your nonsense. I honestly don't even think you believe half of what you say at this point...sure is tough choking down that big ol' piece of humble pie isn't it?