[brecken]

Originally Posted by Ayanla

To be fair. I eat like crap. But I wouldn't force my dog to eat this way :P

RIGHT!!!! and people come into my store all the time i work at a pet store that is only in michigan when people walk in the first thing they ask me is how can i bring my dogs weight down? well what are you feeding Beneful, Dog chow, PURINA NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO theres your problem all your feeding is fillers and bi-products and sugar. i went to walmart today and i saw someone buying cat chow WHAT ARE YOU DOING do u know how hard it is to walk through there and see that and try not to say anything ITS TERRIBLE lol

[ioreks_mom]

Originally Posted by Ayanla

To be fair. I eat like crap. But I wouldn't force my dog to eat this way :P

haha! i am the same! i eat junk, i know i do, i want to change but boy those chips look good... BUT i make sure to research and feed my pets what i feel is the best for them.

on a little side, since the thread kind of went this way...if i ever decide to have children i will make sure i am eating healthy BEFORE i get pregnant so i will not be a hypocrite when i make my kid eat their fruits and veggies!

[brecken]

may i remind you that my dog eats way healthier and more expensive than i do lol

[ioreks_mom]

haha! same here!

[nico8]

Originally Posted by Ayanla

Ingredients on the bag are listed from most prevalent to least.

Beneful's Original Dog Formula top ten:


Their number one ingredient is ground corn. Their main source of meat is "chicken by-product meal". By-product meal would be rendered feet, beaks, stomach ruminants, and other left over bits from processing the actual chicken. Oh hey look, then there's some more corn. Just for fun, the preservatives even start before the end of the top ten. Sorbitol is a preservative.

If Beneful is the highest price point you're comfortable with, you'd be better served with Purina, Iams, Eukanuba, or Science Diet. Beneful is probably one of the worst ripoffs in the dog food industry in my opinion. They basically spray pretty colors and heavy preservatives on some of the crappiest food and sell it at a grossly inflated price point.

Barring any contaminants or recall issues, your dog will survive on any commercial food you feed him. It's up to you to decide whether the extra expense (and possibly travel time, depending on your local stores) is worth it for higher/better meat content, fewer preservatives and little or no grains. I drive an extra twenty minutes to a specialty shop to get my dog's Evo and I pay $34 for a 13.2lb bag, just to give you an idea. Reading the ingredients, and knowing that dogs are carnivores, it just makes sense to me to feed them as much meat, and as little grain (in this case none), as possible within the constraints of a dry kibble. Ideally I'd like to feed raw, but I've chosen kibble for convenience. Make the decision you are comfortable with on all fronts, from quality to cost to convenience.

We all make the food decision that works the best for us. Up until recently my cats were eating Purina Cat Chow. I switched to it from Natural Balance (and sometimes Innova) several years ago when the store I was buying them at closed. Then we went through some financial issues and Purina just made more sense when we were barely managing to put food on our own table. It certainly made more sense than throwing myself into such a financial mess trying to buy more expensive food that I ended up having to rehome them.

Now they're eating Natural Balance LID Pea and Salmon. My 8 year old has developed a stomach issue as of late, which prompted the switch to a limited ingredient food, and I'm still considering switching them to something else if CeCe will tolerate it. Having switched them back and forth, I've been able to see the difference between the two with my own eyes. Of course, it's all anecdotal, but on Natural Balance my cats shed less and poop less, and CeCe's recent vomiting has ceased since switching. I'm considering switching again to Wellness or one of the other limited ingredient foods to see how they do. I free feed my cats, so if one eats a limited ingredient diet, they all have to.

I find it more than amusing that labsnothers continues to talk about how it's all a marketing thing. I want you to think really hard about the last time you saw a commercial or print advertisement for Evo or Orijen. Now compare that to the last time you saw a commercial or print advertisement for Beneful or Purina. Really now, who's doing all the marketing?

Again, great post Ayanla. I find it truly hard to believe that Labsnothers doesn't realize the great disservice he is doing for dog and owner by recommending that someone feed a food like Beneful over all the other choices out there. After comparing the ingredients in Beneful to any of the higher end foods, common sense
would tell you that there is a difference in quality and a big one at that. I'm not saying everyone should feed premium kibble because I realize not everyone can afford to(I myself have to make sacrifices to be able to), but to say that one kibble is just as good as any other is just plain wrong.

[bully]

Originally Posted by nico8

comparing the ingredients in Beneful to any of the higher end foods, common sense would tell you that there is a difference in quality and a big one at that.

Amazes me too. And then you mix some biology and chemistry in with common sense and a dash of marketing you'll have a well prepared decision maker!!!

[Ayanla]

What's really funny is that I work for a company that sells conveyor belting. One of my big accounts is a company that sells the belts to Nestle Purina. So in a twisted way, I actually benefit from encouraging people to buy pet food from Nestle (Purina and Beneful are both made by Nestle), and I still can't do it.

[sassykzt]

Please know that dogs are carnivores not omnivores like us. Dogs thrive on protein. Look for foods that are high in protein ( actual meat /fish or meals but not buy products), rather than the typical high-carbohydrate diets that are more commonly available. Dogs have little nutritional need for carbohydrates; they are used in dog food mostly as an inexpensive source of calories (grains are also used to supply low-quality protein in some foods), and to help bind dry food together into kibble. I know this is a lot to take in! Take a look at the 2 websites mentioned. I think a good diet and plenty of exercise will be great for Max.

[Jeffr03]

Thanks everyone for all the opinions! I have checked out the dogfoodanaysis.com site a little today and have been looking at Blue Buffalo but I'm not 100% sure yet. Max gets great exercise, I live right next to a school with 3 HUGE fields that we play frisbee everyday sometimes twice, morning runs and I take him to the dog park at least 3 times a week! He gets more exercise then me haha. Thanks again, now back to researching!

edit: Oh I also give him a joint support treat that has 500mg glucosamine and 400mg chondroitin

[Labsnothers]

Originally Posted by Jennyfur

Excellent point! It's remarkable, when you think about it, that the higher quality food companies are able to keep manufacturing their products. I can't believe the first 10 ingredients in Beneful.

The large companies can afford TV commercials and magazine ads. Smaller companies get by on astroturf.

[FilleBelle]

Presumably the larger companies can afford more advertising because the larger companies also sell products like candy bars and potato chips while many of the higher quality dog foods are produced by companies that specialize in...dog food.

I think the point, Labsnothers, was that you're constantly claiming premium dog foods exist as a result of marketing. To what marketing are you referring?

[KarliMom]

This is to Labsnothers

I have read post that you do not own a dog and the more I look at your name and some of the very strange answers you come up with . I would like to know .

Do you work in a lab that does experiments on animals or for a company that does ?

[Labsnothers]

The only dog we have had since the 80's that was ''ours'' was Aster that retired as a dog guide at 10 and lived to be 15 with us. She was the third of 19 puppies we have raised for service dog schools since 1991.

Suppose you knew a breeder that bred hundreds of dogs a year, mostly Labs, Shepherds, and Goldens. They provided all the medical care for most of them the first year. At the end of it, they did a complete physical including hip X-rays on all of them. They then spent $35,000 training them before giving them away. They have a large data base of breeding records. Dogs with any physical or temperamental problems are unfit for the program and are a waste. Their well equipped clinic and vet staff are available for serious problems as long as the dog is working. When the dog is no longer able to work, it is replaced at again the $35,000 plus a large emotional upheaval for the person depending on the dog. They have experimented with different diets and exchanged data with other such breeders. Don't you think that what ever they are feeding is healthy and safe? What kinds of controlled studies do you have backing your choice of diet? How objective are the sources of your information? Is your dog's health, their top priority?

I have been raising puppies since 1991 for a large dog guide school that does exactly that. What do they feed? They instruct us to feed Pro Plan chicken and rice puppy chow until 4 months and then switch to adult Pro Plan chicken and rice. I know enough of the people with the trained dogs to know they continue the Pro Plan. The group I meet with monthly for training includes people that have raised puppies for 6 different service dog schools. Some of them are feeding other common commercial chows including Iams and Eukanuba. Any dog owner wanting a healthy, long lived dog can make this regimen work, leaving more time to spend on the dog. It is also relatively economical.

[LadyD]

I agree with Labs, it is a "marketing" thing. The major corn and meat by-prducts based dogfood companies spend so little on the ingredients that they can afford clever but misleading ads. Who ever saw a Evo, TOTW, Orijen, etc>> ad on tv?? Not me!

[ZerotheHero3]

So... Labsnothers, let me get this straight... you find it completely healthy to feed your dog a food that has "animal fat" in it??............ In case you are unaware animal fat is made by taking euthanized shelter animals (that were killed with euthanicide), road kill and leftovers scraped off of slaughter house floors and boiling them, they then scrape the layer of fat of the top and send it to pet food companies who use it to flavour their pet food. You find it HEALTHY to feed your... oh, im sorry, forgot you don't own a dog, other peoples dogs by products?? They don't even know what animals the by-products come from, it just says ANIMALS on the bag, that is revoltingly disgusting and I wouldn't even feed those kinds of food to a pet rock let alone my dog. I can look at any dog and sure it looks healthy but are it's INSIDES healthy? I don't eat all that well myself. Mcdonalds, Five Guys (yummy) on my work breaks, ya know. I'm 5'6 and 125 lbs. I look healthy as hell but my body is probably screaming at me from the inside. Please explain why these ingredients are "healthy." Oh and can you list your credentials for me? Like real credentials. I'm not talking about raising a lab and training it to turn on a light for you.

[nico8]

Originally Posted by Labsnothers

Is your dog's health, their top priority?

I can guarandamntee you it isn't Mars, Nestle, or Colgate-Palmolive's top priority.

[Jennyfur]

Originally Posted by Labsnothers

They instruct us to feed Pro Plan chicken and rice puppy chow until 4 months and then switch to adult Pro Plan chicken and rice. I know enough of the people with the trained dogs to know they continue the Pro Plan.

I've always fed my 11-year-old Buhund the Pro Plan Chicken and Rice, and now I'm going to feed her something healthy--because I've done my research. When you know better, you do better. I'm sure the guide dogs survive on the food they're given, much as my own dog has, but I prefer to go with a more optimal food that can alleviate or prevent some common health issues.

[Ayanla]

Originally Posted by Labsnothers

...Don't you think that what ever they are feeding is healthy and safe? ...

Nope. I think what they're feeding is "good enough." I think what they're feeding is heavily influenced by marketing and, likely, food deals the school has with Purina. The same way most vets are affected by marketing and deals with the makers of Science Diet. Vets, even if they work for "guide dog school that shan't be named", don't do nutritional studies nor are they interested in nutrition beyond maybe asking what they eat if the dog is ill or over/under weight. Again, guide dog schools are non-profit organizations with corporate partnerships with food companies.

From The Royal New Zealand Foundation of the Blind

Nestlé Purina is another Guide Dog Services sponsor, helping us by providing food for all guide dogs and puppies up to graduation, as well as breeding stock. At the Mystery Creek Fieldays in June, they donated dog whistles for us to sell.

From Dog Guides Canada

Purina has been providing foster puppies and dogs in training with dog food since day 1, almost 25 years ago. As our Dog Guide programs have grown, Purina has kept up with this expansion donating more food every year, now totaling approximately 30,000kg of kibble, 3000 cans and over 700 bags of biscuits a year!

Wait...don't hit reply yet. I'm getting to America. I was just showing you that there's a pattern.

from Guide Dogs.com, which services the US and Canada

Guide Dogs for the Blind feeds and recommends Science Diet dog food formulas. Hill's Pet Nutrition, Inc. and Guide Dogs for the Blind have been Partners in Nutrition since 2004 and share a vision to strengthen and improve the quality of life for people and their pets...

From Canine Companions for Independence

Nothing to quote, but if you click the link you can see one of their corporate sponsors is Eukanuba

I could keep digging, but I feel that is enough to establish a pattern of "corporate sponsorship" between dog food manufacturers and guide dog schools world wide.

And finally, to address this question:

Is your dog's health, their top priority?

From Nestle Management Report 2001 (That is a pdf file, not an in browser URL - just a warning)

Nestle's strategic priorities are focused on delivering shareholder value through the achievement of sustainable, capital efficient and profitable long term growth.

Well that certainly gives me the warm fuzzies.

Go ahead and tell me that the guide dog school you work with doesn't have a corporate sponsorship with a food company. Since you're working with an unnamed mystery company, it's not like anyone could prove anything different.

[Labsnothers]

What is this companies thing? All the larger service dog schools are non profit organizations. Their bottom line is helping people. Yes, the money has to come from somewhere. However, Nestle, P&G, and Mars don't have the money it would take to induce the schools to recommend a food that lead to a shorter working life for the dogs. Dog food is a very small part of the budget of the schools. They only pay for the food for the very limited part of a dog's life it spends in training.

Did your sales manager help you find those references?

[ioreks_mom]

Originally Posted by Labsnothers

Did your sales manager help you find those references?

wow! you are SO rude!