[squirmyworm]

Mesquite and I made a trip to the vet today. She's okay, but something weird is going on. Any ideas?

Background
Mesquite has been on raw as of March 2009. We have had no issues - in fact, just the opposite. She's been in fantastic health - I haven't even needed to take her in for anal gland expression for months.

What Happened
Mesquite suddenly had diarrhea - in the house! - on Friday. Flecks of blood in the stool; nothing out of the ordinary on Saturday. Yesterday, diarrhea in the house again. This time there was about a tsp of red blood in it (she's a 65 lb dog). She also vomited grayish bile early this morning. Her appetite and energy levels were and are normal.

I took her into the vet, and while doing a rectal/lower intestine examination the vet found a sizeable piece of barely-digested chicken bone! It was about 1/2 an inch long, cylindrical, and about the diameter of a mechanical pencil. Of course, the vet knows nothing about raw diets, so he was of little help, but it appears that Mesquite hasn't been digesting chicken bones very well during the past few days, and the bone splinters have been really irritating her GI tract. This is the same food she's been eating for the last eight months; it's also the exact food that Rocky (Trumpetjock is my fiance) has been eating. Why the change? Any ideas about what could cause this and what I should do? I have done what the vet recommended, and that was start her on a diet of chicken, cottage cheese, and rice. I put in a little bit of pumpkin...

[bostonsmom]

I had the same issue with one of my dogs. Went from perfect raw poops to all of a sudden pools of bloody diarrhea with bone, and vomiting up undigested bone. This went on for a few weeks

My vet insisted at first that it was the raw diet itself. But that didn't make much sense to me since she'd been eating for 8 months with great results. I asked for a stool sample to be sent off for a complete work up (it was pricey but worth it). It turns out she had an overgrowth of clostridium bacterium. Which is a very common bacteria in dogs, but it can overgrow and cause the symptoms my dog had (and yours too). Turns out that a few other dogs at our local park also seemed to have the same issue, all after new woodchips were laid down.

Anyways, she was put on two different courses of antibiotics and we put her on probiotics and a digestive enzyme. Within 2 weeks she was back to normal. While she was sick though, for the first few days we did rice and a little boiled chicken. And then from there went back to plain ole raw chicken and then went back to her normal diet from there.

I think its worth investigating a virus or bacterial overgrowth as a cause.

[Spicy1_VV]

Nuts this happened to my dog about 2 weeks ago. He had dark diarrhea that was liquid but chunky with pieces of chicken bone. He has been on raw for years without an issue prior. Never any vomit, just bloody diarrhea. I did give him antibiotics and that seems to have helped. I also gave him some canned pumpkin too. So this was most likely bacteria then? From the sounds of the above poster.

Yes vets don't really know how to help when it comes to raw diet. He really had me worried with the blood and what not.

[brecken]

sometimes they change the formulas in majority of the dog food and they dont tell anyone that could be the case

[Spicy1_VV]

What does that have to do with the situation.

Since all 3 poster's (myself included) are feeding raw.

It doesn't matter if they change what is in dog food or not. It won't affect dogs fed raw.

ETA
Forgot to say in my first post. He had like the rounded joint end of a chicken bone and a long sliver type piece (longer then 1/2").

[DobManiac]

This does seem wacky to me. Especially since all of these dogs are passing chicken bones which are pretty much the softest bones any raw dog gets. Those are supposed to soften up pretty easily in the dog's stomach juices.

Do we know of any preventative measures for this bacterium? My dogs get ACV, and I've heard that can help prevent bacterial growth.

[Spicy1_VV]

If so I'd like to know of any good preventatives so this doesn't happen again.

[bostonsmom]

There is nothing that will protect your dog 100% - but we have included the probiotic lactobacillus sporogenes, which works well against clostridium. Clostridium can also overgrow during times of stress ect...so its important to keep in mind.

[squirmyworm]

Originally Posted by Spicy1_VV

It doesn't matter if they change what is in dog food or not. It won't affect dogs fed raw.

OMG...I figured it out. They're changing the chickens!

On a more serious note, it has to be a bacterial overgrowth. Her stool came back negative for any parasites, and the symptoms are similar to what others have posted. Also, I've had her on the vet-recommended diet and antibiotics for a day and a half now, and her diarrhea is gone.

I wonder: what triggered the bacterial growth? I gave her a couple peas as a treat last Friday morning - yes, peas - but it doesn't seem likely that the bacteria would have developed into a problem in less than 12 hours. I guess my schedule has changed recently since I started substitute teaching, which could have triggered some stress. She hasn't been that stress-sensitive in the past. We'll just have to start supplementing probiotics like Bostonmom suggested; I don't want to risk her having to go through this again. All dangers aside, it just has to be uncomfortable...

Where could I find some lactobacillus sporogenes, and in what form would it be (pill, powder, etc.)?

Originally Posted by Spicy1_VV

Yes vets don't really know how to help when it comes to raw diet. He really had me worried with the blood and what not.

On a side note, it's really frustrating me that my vet knows next to nothing about raw. IMO, it doesn't matter if a vet doesn't agree with it - if more and more customers/dog owners are feeding a particular diet, the vet should be knowledgeable about it. How else are they supposed to assist their patients?

I know, preaching to the choir here. I should probably call around and see if any vets in the area are semi-knowledgeable about raw. I'm not optimistic.

[ioreks_mom]

iorek actually had the same sort of problem last winter. he has loose stools for a few days but no vomiting. i brought him to the vet for a stool sample and she said there was bone in it. i also noticed bone in the stool when he had the loose stool. he was given metronidozole for 5 days but i only gave it for 4 since the vet said i could give it up when he was feeling better. i wonder if this was the same problem as you guys dealt with. it really seems so!