[zj0n]

I signed up for these forums, just so I can spread my word on Science Diet. I had 2 Mini Poodle Dogs, I fed them both Science Diet they're entire LIVES. And im not talking about the DRY science diet.

One of my doggies lived until 19, and the other 21 years old. They're entire lives they have had so much energy and a very healthy life. They could have lived longer, but I will not go into details. Age catches up when they live that long.

Now I have a diabetic dog, of which I give him insulin twice a day. Also which I feed him science diet, (Beef and chicken). He is now 14 years old, and as a diabetic dog, he is incredibly healthy with much energy. I will feed my dogs science diet forever, and I can not stress how much I want other people who loves their dogs to feed them science diet as well. They will live a long and happy healthy life.

Anyway, thank you for hearing me out, I have been wanting to spread the word for a long time, because there seems to be a lot of negativity on science diet, of which it bothers me. Thanks again

[Keechak]

I also have an Australian Shepherd who ate Iams for the first 12 years of his life and then switched to Natural choice and then Diamond Naturals, He is now 14.5 years old (Very old for the breed)

My mother had a German Shepherd that lived to be 12 eating Ol' Roy and Iams his whole life (12 is very old for a GSD) '

My Point, you can't base how good a food is on one or two individuals. You need a scientific study to back up your opinion if you want people to believe you.

[dieterherzog]

Originally Posted by zj0n

I signed up for these forums, just so I can spread my word on Science Diet. I had 2 Mini Poodle Dogs, I fed them both Science Diet they're entire LIVES. And im not talking about the DRY science diet.

One of my doggies lived until 19, and the other 21 years old. They're entire lives they have had so much energy and a very healthy life. They could have lived longer, but I will not go into details. Age catches up when they live that long.

Now I have a diabetic dog, of which I give him insulin twice a day. Also which I feed him science diet, (Beef and chicken). He is now 14 years old, and as a diabetic dog, he is incredibly healthy with much energy. I will feed my dogs science diet forever, and I can not stress how much I want other people who loves their dogs to feed them science diet as well. They will live a long and happy healthy life.

Anyway, thank you for hearing me out, I have been wanting to spread the word for a long time, because there seems to be a lot of negativity on science diet, of which it bothers me. Thanks again

You'll soon be accused of being a vet or working for a vet

[trumpetjock]

Originally Posted by zj0n

Anyway, thank you for hearing me out, I have been wanting to spread the word for a long time, because there seems to be a lot of negativity on science diet, of which it bothers me. Thanks again

My problem with SD isn't the fact that it's a crap food. I don't rag on other crap foods nearly as much as SD. My problem with SD is that it is pushed by so many vets and other sources as this amazing food that is so much better than grocery brands when it's nearly identical to them.

It's a grocery brand in a different wrapper, sold by vets for 4x the price. That's what makes me hate it.

[paux]

You'll hear this same story with any and every brand of dog food out there. Just because you've had a good run with Science Diet doesn't mean it's a good food, it just means it's worked out for you. Until there is a LARGE scale study conducted on the effects of each brand, I'm going to have to go with what I've learned in my pre-vet courses and that's that dog's can't utilize grains and carbohydrates anywhere close to meat proteins. So though you may have some outstanding cases, I would be willing to bet a thousand bucks that dogs fed "higher grade" dog foods have a much greater average lifespan than those fed Science Diet.

[zj0n]

Originally Posted by trumpetjock

My problem with SD isn't the fact that it's a crap food. I don't rag on other crap foods nearly as much as SD. My problem with SD is that it is pushed by so many vets and other sources as this amazing food that is so much better than grocery brands when it's nearly identical to them.

It's a grocery brand in a different wrapper, sold by vets for 4x the price. That's what makes me hate it.

The last 3 vets I visited (in florida and georgia) told me to not use science diet. Then they gave me free samples of some other dry dog food. Which is one of the points I wrote this thread. Vets are straying me away from science diet. I havent met a vet yet who says to use science diet.

[Ayanla]

Anecdotal evidence is absolutely useless on a small scale.

If someone came here and posted about how their three dogs did just fine on the melamine tainted dog food and they didn't understand why everyone was getting so upset about it, do you think people would suddenly be swayed into believing melamine to be safe?

What if I told you my great grandmother lived to over 90 after smoking for more than 75 years of her life? Would that convince you that smoking had no harmful side effects?

Show me the unbiased science. I'm not talking a study done by Iams internally, or a study funded by a group with a vested interest in the outcome. I'm talking about pure science that shows dogs digest grains and plants as well as they digest meat and meat based proteins. Show me the science that backs up the opinion that ground whole grain corn (main ingredient in SD puppy healthy development) breaks down the same way as beef (main ingredient in Evo red meat small bites) and is appropriate as the main portion of a dog's diet. After all, if it's the main ingredient in their food, it's the main staple in their diet.

As a matter of fact, just for ships and googles, let's look at the first ten ingredients in SD puppy healthy development and compare it to the first ten ingredients in Evo red meat small bites (not appropriate for large breed puppies, but my small breed puppies eat it).

This is the food that Hill's recommends for a healthy puppy:
Ground Whole Grain Corn, Chicken By-Product Meal, Animal Fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols and citric acid), Liver Flavor, Flaxseed, Soybean Oil, Powdered Cellulose, Dried Beet Pulp, Fish Oil, Corn Gluten Meal...

Um, wow...the only meat in the top ten ingredients is Chicken by-product meal and some animal fat (with preservatives).

This is Evo red meat small bites:
Beef, Lamb Meal, Potatoes, Egg, Sunflower Oil, Buffalo, Lamb, Venison, Beef Cartilage, Herring Oil....

I don't get it. I don't get how anyone can look at those two lists and think they offer the same thing to a dog in any way, shape, or form.

[bully]

The fact is ALL dogs seem to do well 20 years ago, because our only real choices were crap food (dry). Good kool-aid isn't it.

Oh and Mini Poodles are supposed to live long anyways.

[Labsnothers]

Frankly I think there is a lot of astroturf around. Don't see as many suspicious posts for the common brands as the premium ones. But then their marketing is far different. I guarantee whoever has the Wal*Mart account at P&G won't be posting here about what a great food Iams is. Now, the lady that was giving away samples of Natural whatever at the pet food store when I went in to buy Pro Plan?

I too place a low value on anecdotal evidence. However a large, careful, controlled study comparing different diets available to the general public? Please please, please, if you know of one, let me know. The best I have found is http://jn.nutrition.org/cgi/content/...34/8/2141S#top The large service dog schools have done some testing of different foods, but I haven't see the results, let alone have a link to them. I do know they are feeding common brands including Science Diet. I am sure the Eukanuba ads I have seen lately with the little CCI blurb are costing P&G plenty. However, P&G and Nestle couldn't afford to pay what it would take to get a school to use a food that shortened a dog's working life. I have seen thousands of dogs on Pro Plan, including ones still working at 10-12 years old, and they are doing fine. Convincing me it is the garbage many say all the common brands are is a tough sell.

I too suspect Science Diet is using the mark up they can offer vets to extract a higher price for about the same thing as Iams or Purina 1. I think P&G may be doing the same thing with the Eukanuba, selling Iams in a different bag at a higher price through a different channel.

So as I said in another thread, ''The truth is, not much is the truth.'' Who knows what is behind anything posted to the net.

[Reacher]

Some dogs do better with lower quality foods. I believe the majority do better with higher quality foods. As other's have said, your opinion is just that, your opinion. There is no science behind your conclusions. I am glad your dogs lived a long time and seemed to do well on SD. I can't help but wonder if they might have lived even longer on a better quality food. That is the type of thing that might be learned by a real study as opposed to your opinion.

I feed my dog ToTW. I believe it to be a good food. Is it better than Evo or any of the other great quality foods on the market, I don't know. In the absence of a true study, I'll have to do my own research and do what I think is best.

[Tankstar]

We had a collie make it to almost 14 living on alpo and ol roy her whole life, with no vet care or shot recoreds. She lived. But did she live well? probably not.

I want to give my dog the best chance of a long healthy life. so i feed what a dog should eat.

I dont believe in science diet, purina, pedigree ect.

[Michiyo-Fir]

Originally Posted by zj0n

The last 3 vets I visited (in florida and georgia) told me to not use science diet. Then they gave me free samples of some other dry dog food. Which is one of the points I wrote this thread. Vets are straying me away from science diet. I havent met a vet yet who says to use science diet.

I know at least 10 vets that promote SD and sell them in their stores..

I don't think every dog does well on SD. I have 3 friends with dogs on SD. One of them is doing very well, no health problems and very energetic. Of the other 2, one of them is developing severe allergies and has licked patches of fur off his skin so he has bald patches now. The other one is having some ear infection problems.

[MafiaPrincess]

It's not the truth on science diet. It's your opinion backed by nothing but your own anecdotal evidence.

[bully]

Originally Posted by Reacher

Some dogs do better with lower quality foods.

Um.. NO

[Michiyo-Fir]

Originally Posted by MafiaPrincess

It's not the truth on science diet. It's your opinion backed by nothing but your own anecdotal evidence.

I don't think we need to be so mean just because someone else has their own opinion!

I do know some dogs that can't eat very good food. They continually have diarrhea even when different brands are switched. I've never personally had that problem that doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

[Stelladog]

As people have mentioned, a few cases don't provide "truth". There are some 100+ year old people that have smoked for 75+ years, but yet that isn't proof that smoking is heathly.

I believe nutritionally SD is ok and probably better than what I feed to myself. But the unregulated additives will cause problems for some dogs and in general will result in a less healthly life.

I didn't want to add another negative response to this thread, but the call to "Read!" as if something meaningful was within was just asking for a group kick-down.

[Ayanla]

Originally Posted by Labsnothers

... The best I have found is http://jn.nutrition.org/cgi/content/...34/8/2141S#top ...

I would love to see that study done with different brands, and I'm not in any way being snarky or sarcastic. It doesn't surprise me that there wasn't much difference in digestibility between various one or that the more expensive ones didn't fare better than the cheaper ones. I mean the high priced ones they tested were Iams, Eukanuba, Hills, Royal Canin etc...all still pretty low quality foods.

[Kina_A]

Originally Posted by zj0n

The last 3 vets I visited (in florida and georgia) told me to not use science diet. Then they gave me free samples of some other dry dog food. Which is one of the points I wrote this thread. Vets are straying me away from science diet. I havent met a vet yet who says to use science diet.

Smart vets! I would listen to them.

[bully]

Originally Posted by Michiyo-Fir

I don't think we need to be so mean just because someone else has their own opinion!

I do know some dogs that can't eat very good food. They continually have diarrhea even when different brands are switched. I've never personally had that problem that doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

It's not mean - it's protecting everyone from reading the WRONG information!! Tip-toe, tip-toe blah.

These dogs with diarrhea.. How long were they on the good food? My pup had the runs for two days and now craps like a champ!! It takes some dogs 2-4 weeks to adjust their system to real/better food.

[Labsnothers]

Originally Posted by MafiaPrincess

It's not the truth on science diet. It's your opinion backed by nothing but your own anecdotal evidence.

Like 99%+ of what I read on the benefits of premium foods.

Interesting the comments on some dogs not being able to eat premium foods. Perhaps that explains the first of this quote from my dog guide school manual, ''Stay away from premium foods and special diets like lamb and rice or turkey and barley.'' The end is not due to a problem with lamb. After all, there are a number of schools feeding Iams. It is just a matter of sticking to one protein incase the dog ever does develop allergies. My friend's dog did develop an allergy to chicken, and is not eating Iams.

Note, the people like us that are raising puppies pay for the food we feed their dogs out of our own pocket.

Maybe I wasn't clear when I said that study was the best one. It is somewhat disappointing, but the only study I have ever seen that has any comparison of different brands that I can give a link to or have even seen.

Oh the rationalizations. My father doesn't ''own the school''. It is a large non profit. Over a years time, I am out quite a bit for food, vet care, running around, admissions to places I take the puppies, hotels, etc.