[HersheyPup]

I have two dogs...one can eat anything and one can't. However, they both do very well on raw. I keep trying to find a premium kibble that the sensitve dog will do well on. She is just one that does best on non premium foods. I am currently trying her on Nature's Logic, I'm keeping my fingers crossed! I don't want to keep her on mediocre food that contains lots of grain fragments and gluten meals. I do not think that corn and wheat gluten are a good subsitute for meat proteins.

I do feed raw, but only 30 -50% or their diet is raw, I need to keep kibble in their diet for other reasons.

[tirluc]

Originally Posted by Michiyo-Fir

Wow that's a ton of food! Most GSDs I know on premium food eat about 3 cups a day... A 80 lbs GSD that lives in me eats 2 3/4 cup of EVO a day. I'm a little shocked that a 70-80 lbs dog can eat 8 cups...or even more extreme 14 cups a day. The dog I know is called cowboy and he gets a 5 mile run a day plus an hr of fetch every morning...

I know a few 100+ lbs dogs that only eat 2-3 cups a day.

Sir weighed in at 125 at his "nice" weight....if i had him at what the vet recommended he would have been about 5-10 lbs more.....but that was still alot of food...i think he burned it while sleeping, even...

[Laurelin]

I've had dogs do terribly on EVO and other premium foods. Of course the same dog also did terribly on Purina... We've tried a LOT of foods to find one all 5 do well on.

Right now we're what I'd call upper middle of the road. Feeding Eagle Pack Holistic and loving it. We're on our 5th or 6th bag in a row and everyone is still doing great. No more runny poos- yay!

It's all about finding the best foods for your specific dogs. Mine did badly on EVO (well one did well on evo the rest didnt), Canidae, Purina One... What works best for us is Fromm, Blue Buffalo, and Eagle Pack.

[Michiyo-Fir]

Originally Posted by tirluc

Sir weighed in at 125 at his "nice" weight....if i had him at what the vet recommended he would have been about 5-10 lbs more.....but that was still alot of food...i think he burned it while sleeping, even...

Even at 125 lbs or 150 lbs...I don't think 8 cups a day can be justified. It's just strange to me. I would say a 125ish lbs dog should only need about 4 cups if they're active... 4 cups (of course depending on the food) would be around 2000 calories. 8 cups would be 4000 calories, unless your dog was working at least a half a day I can't imagine he would need 4000 calories a day. But then again he's your dog, you should know what he needs, not me. It's just that I've never heard of a dog eating so much just to keep weight on.

But then again there are people like Michael Phelps, 12000 a day and perfectly lean. His body is a machine lol.

All 3 of our dogs have done the best on Orijen/other high protein food. Dogs are just different that's all.

[canteloupe]

Originally Posted by Ayanla

I look at it this way, from a nutritional standpoint. Let's say you could eat only one meal for the rest of your life. Your choices are:
Meal A - Breaded chicken fingers, french fries, corn, pecan pie, and a glass of chocolate milk
Meal B - Grilled lean chicken breast, brown rice, steamed broccoli/carrot mix, strawberries covered with light cream, and a glass of skim milk

Meal A will get you through. It's got meat, it's got starch, it's got a veggie, it's got some fats and sugars, and it's got dairy. You won't die eating it all day every day. That doesn't change the fact that, nutritionally, Meal B is better. It has more of what your body needs and less of what it doesn't. To me, that's the comparison between "grocery brand" dog foods and "premium" foods.

Good analogy!

Originally Posted by Dakota Spirit

I just don't understand why people get into such big debates over this. What someone else feeds their dog is really of very little concern to me - particularly if they insist that their dog IS indeed thriving and healthy. It's their dog...what do I know? I'm not a vet and I know nothing about that particular dog's health (first hand) so I'm really in no position to make contradictory claims about it.
...
Basically, live and let live.

The reason that I get involved when there's a debate is that it really, really bothers me what the crappy dog and cat food companies are getting away with. I think it's completely immoral. Every time I see a commercial for Purina that touts it as healthy and natural, I get angry. They (and all the companies that are even worse) are basically poisoning people's pets, while feeding them the lie that they are doing the right thing for those pets. It infuriates me!

The other reason is that I know there are plenty of people who come to this website who don't know anything about this debate, and have never really thought about it before. I want to make sure they go away better informed, or at least willing to think about it.

[Dakota Spirit]

Originally Posted by canteloupe

The reason that I get involved when there's a debate is that it really, really bothers me what the crappy dog and cat food companies are getting away with. I think it's completely immoral. Every time I see a commercial for Purina that touts it as healthy and natural, I get angry. They (and all the companies that are even worse) are basically poisoning people's pets, while feeding them the lie that they are doing the right thing for those pets. It infuriates me!

The other reason is that I know there are plenty of people who come to this website who don't know anything about this debate, and have never really thought about it before. I want to make sure they go away better informed, or at least willing to think about it.

I can understand that and when asked, I have no problem outlining the benefits of higher end foods. But to me, that's different then arguing with someone who is feeding the food, who IS informed, and who is (according to them) getting good results. And most of the debates I see regarding dog food (on this forum) seem to fall into that latter category. In those instances you really aren't informing anyone, it's more a battle of wills until someone gives up and leaves the thread.

I have no qualms about handing out information and striving to better inform owners that are still on the cusp of making their choice - but I still believe it to be the owner's choice in the end. They are still the most qualified to see and decide what works best for their dog. And I'm not going to continue going on about the 'garbage food' they feed (not saying you or anyone specific does this - just a general observation of behavior in past food debates) at that point. Informing someone doesn't mean berating them. It's laying out the information so they can, as you said, think about it and come to their conclusion with those facts in mind. It may not be the choice you agree with but agian, it is their choice to make.

[canteloupe]

Originally Posted by Dakota Spirit

I can understand that and when asked, I have no problem outlining the benefits of higher end foods. But to me, that's different then arguing with someone who IS feeding the food, who is informed, and who is (according to them) getting good results. And most of the debates I see regarding dog food (on this forum) seem to fall into that latter category. In those instances you really aren't informing anyone, it's more or a battle of wills until someone gives up and leaves the thread.

It's not about the one person who is saying their dogs love purina, or whatever; it's about all the people who might be reading the thread, who aren't committed to one thing yet, or don't know anything about it.

Anyway, I think a lot of the people who post pro-premium posts aren't arguing anyone into the ground. Myself included. There might be a few posters who go over the top with it, but most of us are just stating our experiences and opinions, and citing our favorite resources, like dogfoodanalysis.com.

I disagree with your statement that most of the debates here are people arguing with someone who is feeding non-premium food. To me, it seems like most of the discussions are created by someone who is wondering what to feed, and wants advice.

[dieterherzog]

Which makes me come back to the question I asked earlier before being "bullied" by a raw proponent: What is the difference between a healthy dog and a "thriving" dog? Is it anything visible? Dogs on Science Diet live up to 17 doggie years, look perfectly fine and I can never tell the difference.

[Dakota Spirit]

Originally Posted by canteloupe

Anyway, I think a lot of the people who post pro-premium posts aren't arguing anyone into the ground. Myself included. There might be a few posters who go over the top with it, but most of us are just stating our experiences and opinions, and citing our favorite resources, like dogfoodanalysis.com.

Which is great, when someone asks for it. Or even in the general "for every one's information" sharing of facts. But all too often (in this thread even, tirluc's posts serve as an example) someone posts their GOOD experiences with 'bad foods' and they are immediatly questioned regarding the validity of it or whatever. Heck, that's what this thread is ABOUT. The idea that regardless of how well an owner feels (or knows) their dog is doing, they could be SO much better if they were only fed a premium food. That's not really sharing information, IMO.

[ginoginnetti]

Ok i'm new here please could you advise on brands of premium foods also my boy is only 11 weeks and isnt keen on dried food of which i would prefer him to have.Hes a GSD X Akita ive been giving him winalot puppy as this is what he was having when i got him. his coat isnt as soft and shiny as i thought it should be but i was informed it was the Akita in him???
I want to do the best i can for him
regards
gina

[skelaki]

Originally Posted by ginoginnetti

Ok i'm new here please could you advise on brands of premium foods also my boy is only 11 weeks and isnt keen on dried food of which i would prefer him to have.Hes a GSD X Akita ive been giving him winalot puppy as this is what he was having when i got him. his coat isnt as soft and shiny as i thought it should be but i was informed it was the Akita in him???
I want to do the best i can for him
regards
gina

Personally I feed a primarily raw diet that's basically prey model. But I'm not a purist and do occasionally give a bit of veggie and do feed some kibble. I just don't mix the two. The kibble I currently use is Taste of the Wild but i do still have some the breeder sent (ProPlan). Now my pup is just 3 months old and I'm still getting proportions right so I do go through the occasional day of loose stools but we're getting there. So far the only meat I'm feeding is chicken and I haven't added any liver in yet.

It's hard to tell you to feed X brand and your dogs will do wonderfully well. I totally believe raw is best and, even if you feed kibble and/or canned dog food, in my opinion, adding some raw meaty bones to their diet would probably be a good thing. I would also look into feeding a grain-free kibble or at least one without corn, wheat or soy, which are the grains that seem to cause the most problems. There are many choices out there and the best thing to do is find one/s that work best for your dogs as well as for your budget.

[canteloupe]

Originally Posted by ginoginnetti

Ok i'm new here please could you advise on brands of premium foods also my boy is only 11 weeks and isnt keen on dried food of which i would prefer him to have.Hes a GSD X Akita ive been giving him winalot puppy as this is what he was having when i got him. his coat isnt as soft and shiny as i thought it should be but i was informed it was the Akita in him???
I want to do the best i can for him
regards
gina

Ha! Case in point. You see what I mean?

Gino, check out dogfoodanalysis.com and dogfoodproject.com to learn about evaluating dog food brands.

Dakota spirit, that's fine if people feel their dog does best on the "bad foods." It does seem like lately there are an abundance of people who are saying purina etc. are just as good as the premium, grain free foods. When people say stuff like this it irks me because it isn't just their dog, or their experience that they're talking about -- they're actually making a claim about the quality of the foods that I think is unsupported.

Anyway, I don't really want to talk about this anymore. I don't think I need to explain or defend my posts, in particular, because I don't think I'm one of the people who "question[s] ... the validity" of people's "GOOD experiences with 'bad foods'". So maybe I didn't even need to post the responses I already made. Basically, I was just explaining my own feelings, and why I bother to post about this stuff. Even though it gets a little boring, I feel a social reponsibility.

[Dakota Spirit]

Cantelope - I think I said somewhere in my first post to you that my statements were not directed at you personally. For what it's worth, I don't think you're one of the people that does it either. I wasn't expecting you to defend anything. I only posted about the things I did (people questioning other's experience, for example) because that's what this thread was essentially about. My apologies if I misunderstood something you were trying to say.

[canteloupe]

Oh yes, I wasn't bothered by your posts. Sorry if it came across that way. I just meant that I don't really have anything else to say about it. And I wanted to distance myself from any approach that questions the validity of people's statements about their dogs being healthy.

I'm tired right now, so I'm not expressing myself very well.

[DobManiac]

Originally Posted by Michiyo-Fir

Even at 125 lbs or 150 lbs...I don't think 8 cups a day can be justified. It's just strange to me. I would say a 125ish lbs dog should only need about 4 cups if they're active... 4 cups (of course depending on the food) would be around 2000 calories. 8 cups would be 4000 calories, unless your dog was working at least a half a day I can't imagine he would need 4000 calories a day. But then again he's your dog, you should know what he needs, not me. It's just that I've never heard of a dog eating so much just to keep weight on.

But then again there are people like Michael Phelps, 12000 a day and perfectly lean. His body is a machine lol.

All 3 of our dogs have done the best on Orijen/other high protein food. Dogs are just different that's all.

I wonder if the dog was intact. When Dusk was on kibble, I had to feed him 6 cups a day of TOTW to keep weight on him. Most show people feed proplan, and those males are eating between 7-9 cups a day. Doberman males weigh 80 to 90 lbs. A friend of mine had a male with a very high metabolism. She was feeding him 8 cups a day plus 1 pound of cooked hamburger meat every day. Now that seems ridiculous to me since Dusk only eats 2lbs 4ounces a day on raw. Maybe she was just cooking the heck out of that meat.

[tirluc]

Originally Posted by DobManiac

I wonder if the dog was intact. When Dusk was on kibble, I had to feed him 6 cups a day of TOTW to keep weight on him. Most show people feed proplan, and those males are eating between 7-9 cups a day. Doberman males weigh 80 to 90 lbs. A friend of mine had a male with a very high metabolism. She was feeding him 8 cups a day plus 1 pound of cooked hamburger meat every day. Now that seems ridiculous to me since Dusk only eats 2lbs 4ounces a day on raw. Maybe she was just cooking the heck out of that meat.

yes, he was intact....he was showing at the time.....

[AkiraleShiba]

Ithought my dog was doing great on premium kibble when I realised thay he's doing more than excellent on RAW

Originally Posted by ginoginnetti

Ok i'm new here please could you advise on brands of premium foods also my boy is only 11 weeks and isnt keen on dried food of which i would prefer him to have.Hes a GSD X Akita ive been giving him winalot puppy as this is what he was having when i got him. his coat isnt as soft and shiny as i thought it should be but i was informed it was the Akita in him???
I want to do the best i can for him
regards
gina

Um Akitas have great fluffy husky like coats ! So IF he is part Akita (or not) bad coat is a sign that the kibble your feeding is not Okaying with your dog.

[Stelladog]

Like a previous poster, I fed Science Diet and thought I was giving one of the best foods. So, I don't judge other people on what they feed, but I would want to make them aware that there are brands considered "healthier" and more "organic" and that SD is not on that list (nor are most brands they sell at Petsmart).

When my dog got cancer, I did spend some time trying to research if there were any know causes/factors. Pretty much we don't know, but I did find that many standard dog food did have proteins/additives/binder/colors that were listed as possible carcinogens and could not be in people food. This is of course a gray area, but overall food seemed a more likely factor than environmental or medical sources.

[flipgirl]

I, personally, will do whatever I can to avoid feeding my dog any kibble, premium or otherwise. Not because there are not good kibbles available; there are better ones and worse ones. I just don't believe in feeding my dog processed food. That's just my opinion; I'm not saying if you feed kibble, you're a bad dog owner or that you don't love your dog.

Having said that, I think in forming an opinion, you have to consider what 'healthy' means to you. Does it mean just being alive and walking? Or does it mean bright eyes, glossy coat? Or does it mean full of vitality, energy and regular appetite, urination and bowel movements? So if the food you're feeding produces the results that make your dog what you think is healthy, then great. But just remember that genes are a huge part of the equation. Trust me, if I could have even just a fraction of my father's gene that controlled the speed of my metabolism, I would be a happy girl but no, my brothers got all of the fat burning genes. I could eat salad forever and my body would still find fat to store.

But really, if we all ate fresh, unprocessed, pure foods in proper portions, we would all be healthy, along with our pets.

However, if I had to choose kibble, I would choose the premium ones. I know Kiri does better on the premium ones so that would be my choice. I'm sure much of that choice is based on B.S. marketing just as the non-premium food companies dish out but I guess we're all victims to that.....

[tirluc]

ok, so, if this:

Or does it mean bright eyes, glossy coat? Or does it mean full of vitality, energy and regular appetite, urination and bowel movements?

is what everyone considers "healthy looking" in a dog (or any living being, which, to me, indicates thriving, not just existing/getting by) then i would say that my dogs are perfectly healthy eating the P.O. and they were not when they were eating the "premium" foods.....

so, i guess what it all boils down to is it depends on the individual dog

oh, and just an added tidbit here, 2 friends of mine that each have a sibling of Titch's (Tir's pups) tried the gamut of "premium" foods for both the sibs (they are very big on the "quality" feeding, as well) and both those dogs did crappy on the brands they tried....so, they tried P.O. (at my suggestion) and the dogs are doing fantastic on it....bright, shining eyes and coat; lots of energy from sun up to sundown; good, healthy poops (and not to many)....