can you feed raw occassionally?

muddyboots · 03-04-2009, 11:13 AM

I've read over much of the raw diet stuff in this forum in the past and decided I don't have the time to feed my 2 dogs raw. I rarely even cook for myself. But, today I made a chicken and have the neck, liver, heart, etc and I'm wondering if I could feed them to my dogs?

I have an adult lab mix and an adult husky mix, both are over 70lbs.

I know that feeding raw and regular food is not supposed to be a good idea because dry food takes longer to digest and makes the dog more prone to parasites or whatever from the raw, so if it's ok to give it to them raw, how long should I wait after they've had dry food?

If it's not a good idea to feed it to them raw, I assume the neck is a no-go because of the cooked bones that'd be involved? ...how do I cook the liver, heart, etc? Is it gunna smell bad?

...bottom line is I'd rather not have these parts go to waste, but I'm certainly not wanting to put my dogs' health in jeopardy either!

Thanks for your advice,
-Erica

rosemaryninja · 03-04-2009, 11:22 AM

You can feed them the raw stuff. It doesn't matter how long ago they had kibble. Don't cook it; just give it to them.

The liver, heart and any other organs you might have could cause stomach problems; organs are rich and, in a raw diet, are introduced very gradually and only after the dog has been properly acclimatised to eating raw meat. Feed them if you're assured that your dogs have iron stomachs. Otherwise, the neck should be fine.

BoxMeIn21 · 03-04-2009, 11:22 AM

Of course you can feed it, but it needs to be raw, not cooked. The liver might be a little rich, but since it's not that much, it shouldn't cause that much of a problem. And I wouldn't stress too much how long you wait between the kibble. I would say if you feed it between meals, you should be fine.

muddyboots · 03-04-2009, 11:28 AM

Thanks for the quick replies.

Thanks for the info about the liver possibly causing problems. What if I cook that?

Otherwise, I'm thinking maybe the liver and heart, etc will be okay since they are such big dogs and each will get just half of the liver?

-Erica

rosemaryninja · 03-04-2009, 11:43 AM

It's up to you. How sensitive are your dogs' stomachs? If they're exceptionally sensitive, I would go ahead and cut up the liver into smaller parts and freeze them to be fed over the next couple of days. If they're not exceptionally sensitive, you can go ahead and feed it raw. I wouldn't cook it though.

BoxMeIn21 · 03-04-2009, 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by muddyboots

Thanks for the quick replies.

Thanks for the info about the liver possibly causing problems. What if I cook that?

Otherwise, I'm thinking maybe the liver and heart, etc will be okay since they are such big dogs and each will get just half of the liver?

-Erica

It really depends on your dogs stomaches, are they really sensitive? Chicken livers are so small, I hardly doubt it's going to cause a REAL big problem, unless they are super-dooper sensitive to change.

cjac&mac · 03-04-2009, 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rosemaryninja

You can feed them the raw stuff. It doesn't matter how long ago they had kibble. Don't cook it; just give it to them.

I'm sorry, but I must say this is a very bold. Although I agree with you about the organs I find it hard to fathom such a statement. Muddyboots asked if it was safe to feed raw at any time at that she didn't want to put her dogs in jeopardy....

Considering that she doesn't feed raw on a regular basis, but she does feed kibble, her dogs digestive systems are automatically compromised and do need a time difference before it is even remotely safe. Also, the meat she is preparing for herself is loaded with bacteria, because her dog eats dry food he doesn't produce the correct enzymes naturally to kill this bacteria.

I am not an advocate of feeding both Raw and dry food, for many reasons. I think you should pick one or the other. However if you are going to do it feed them between 6-8hrs apart. Longer if you can.

Muddyboots, in the end it is your decision. However, I think feeding random raw at any time is putting your dogs at risk for bacterial colitis or bacterial infections.

BoxMeIn21 · 03-04-2009, 07:05 PM

Um. So you're saying that the entire digestive tract changes on a kibble fed dog? And the dog would be defenseless against the bacteria in the raw meat? I am sorry I find this pretty far fetched. Do you have evidence that the dog doesn't produce these enzymes?
I understand that there is an adjustment period, but I hardly think that a small amount of chicken parts - the neck, liver and heart (split between two large dogs) is going to cause some catastrophic problem. Now, like both RMN and I stated - if the dogs sensitive to change or new food, take it easy...
JMO

cjac&mac · 03-04-2009, 07:13 PM

Yes. Feeding anything other than than raw food alters the dogs NATURAL digestive system. Feeding kibble is the most dramatic. It completely neutralizes the dogs stomach acids, making it a perfect breeding ground for bacteria. Regardless of the amount of raw fed, there is still great potential for an intolerance. Healthy dogs, continually fed both raw and dry dog food on a regular basis have been strong enough to fight this bacteria build up, but only for so long, it is a huge stress on the dogs body.

I would say at this point, take my information at another angle to this post. You two are pro raw with dry food, and I am not.

As for the information regarding my points, it is all over the internet if you search for it. I would be interested to read your information on it being perfectly normal for dogs to eat raw and kibble.

muddyboots · 03-04-2009, 07:35 PM

I'm very interested in an ongoing discussion on this topic, so by all means -both sides, feel free to continue the conversation!

As for this particular situation, I waited until 3-4 hours had passed since their last kibble meal, then divided the neck, heart, lungs, and liver and fed it to them outside to avoid a mess indoors.

They both ate the neck rather quickly and without chewing it much even though it was so bony I could barely cut it in half. The rest my 7 year lab mix was very apprehensive about. The 1 year old husky mix was a little apprehensive as well -he took each piece, then dropped it in the grass and poked at it a bit before eating it. The lab ate a couple bits, then left the rest, which I microwaved (horrible, not recommended) and gave it to him and he happily ate it cooked.

3-4 hours later they've now had their kibble and cooked chicken for dinner. If there are any ill effects (even if it's just loose stool) I'll report it here for the benefit of others searching on the topic.

All-in-all, depending on how this conversation goes, I may feed the neck raw again since, with the bones, there's no other choice, but the rest I think I'd throw in the oven and cook it that way. It was very spattery in the microwave -it made a pretty disgusting mess!

-Erica

BoxMeIn21 · 03-04-2009, 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cjac&mac

Yes. Feeding anything other than than raw food alters the dogs NATURAL digestive system. Feeding kibble is the most dramatic. It completely neutralizes the dogs stomach acids, making it a perfect breeding ground for bacteria. Regardless of the amount of raw fed, there is still great potential for an intolerance. Healthy dogs, continually fed both raw and dry dog food on a regular basis have been strong enough to fight this bacteria build up, but only for so long, it is a huge stress on the dogs body.

I would say at this point, take my information at another angle to this post. You two are pro raw with dry food, and I am not.

As for the information regarding my points, it is all over the internet if you search for it. I would be interested to read your information on it being perfectly normal for dogs to eat raw and kibble.

I never said I was pro raw with dry food, I feed raw, but I am not an elitest. I know LOADS of people who feed raw and kibble in the SAME meal (

)
and have been doing so for a long time with no ill effects, but that's THEIR prerogative. I know, that's anecdontal...Regardless in this case I see no problem with her feeding it between meals...

FilleBelle · 03-04-2009, 07:59 PM

In 26 years of dog ownership, I have always fed kibble and I have, likewise, always given bits of raw meat or bones as treats. I've never had a cooldown period and I've never had a dog get sick.

I've also been feeding myself raw cookie dough for that same number of years, though, so I'm clearly living on the edge.

rosemaryninja · 03-04-2009, 08:04 PM

Actually, I don't feed raw and kibble together either. I don't see the point. I do, however, train Spunky shortly after her meals, and when I do so I reward her with cooked treats. Many raw feeders probably do the same. I agree that a diet too low in protein and too high in gluten can result in insufficient gastrin, which could prevent the bacteria in raw food from being neutralized. I don't think this is the case in Erica's dogs, though, as she's stated before that her dogs are on Orijen.

FilleBelle · 03-04-2009, 08:08 PM

The point for me is that I'm simply too lazy to feed raw on a regular basis. Still, some meat does pass through my home on occasion (rarely, since I'm a vegetarian) and I will give the parts the people don't want to the dog(s) as a special treat. I guess that isn't really raw and kibble at the same time...it's more the opposite of what you are saying. Kibble with a raw treat.

wolfsnaps · 03-04-2009, 08:24 PM

I am not going to tell you what to do because I tend to do different things. What I am going to tell you is what just happened with my dogs. I moved, switched jobs, and had financial issues and had to adjust to my new schedule so raw is currently out of the question full time. I DID do raw full time for a while and everything was fine. Then I put them on higher end kibble (Blue buffalo, natural balance, stc) whith no issues. Now I feed them raw as treats and something fun to do outside. I just gave them raw beef ribs the last two days and it gave my small dog horrible gas.

SO far thats the only bad thing that has happened, however, I don't know what ill effects may be happening inside.

If it is conceivable, do raw full time. If it isn't, closely monitor them when you do change their diet in anyway. Oh, and keep us posted.

cjac&mac · 03-04-2009, 09:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wolfsnaps

Now I feed them raw as treats and something fun to do outside. I just gave them raw beef ribs the last two days and it gave my small dog horrible gas.

SO far thats the only bad thing that has happened, however, I don't know what ill effects may be happening inside.

This is a typically reaction that is often overlooked with pet owners. We think it's gross and humorous at the same time. It is a negative reaction. The same way when you have gas, it is because of something you ate that didn't fully agree with you.

muddyboots · 03-04-2009, 10:42 PM

I'm afraid I won't be able to report on excess gas because my two ALWAYS have gas! I've switched foods a couple times (with a year or more in-between), but it didn't help. Yogurt seems to help some, but most of the time I forget to give it to them and it seems to help more if given consistently over several days, which rarely happens.

muddyboots · 03-05-2009, 10:44 AM

Around 4-5am my 7yr old lab's belly started making gurgling noises that were so loud they woke me up. Energy levels and activity levels are normal, so it didn't seem to bother him too much. My husband let him out, so I can't report on his "business", but I'd assume it was soft at the very least.

I don't consider this to be a "bad reaction" necessarily since switching from a grocery-store dog food to a premium brand would induce gastric upset as well, but a bad reaction is possible. The 1yr old Husky mix is not having the audible stomach issues and has higher than normal energy levels this morning, but again I missed his business this morning as well.

...the funny thing is the Lab mix had only the raw half neck and a lung or something -no raw liver, I ended up having to cook that so he'd eat it. The Husky mix ate it all raw and he's the one having no issues at all.

UPDATE: Stools for both are fine. (I'm sure everyone was waiting to hear

.)

cjac&mac · 03-05-2009, 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by muddyboots

I'm afraid I won't be able to report on excess gas because my two ALWAYS have gas! I've switched foods a couple times (with a year or more in-between), but it didn't help. Yogurt seems to help some, but most of the time I forget to give it to them and it seems to help more if given consistently over several days, which rarely happens.

If feeding plain yogurt helped when you fed it, that is a clear indication that your dogs bacteria levels are off. Not necessarily bad, just off. Feeding yogurt is a great way to aid any dog in digestion and absorption of beneficial ingredients. You might want to try a LID dry food or LID tinned and use a digestive enzyme powder for 4-6 months. If you are successful in reducing the gas.... there's your solution.

There is so much more we could go into, but I would hate to bore the rest reading the posts.

Willowy · 03-05-2009, 10:39 PM

Hmmm, I feed raw for a few meals a week and my dogs haven't had any trouble with it. I dunno, everyone I know will throw their dogs the giblets from the turkey, and I've never known one that got sick from it, not even an upset tummy. But if a dog is really sensitive, I suppose you wouldn't want to risk it.