[Hoyt]

I've hung around the forums here a couple of days now and I've been purposefully avoiding this area. I'm pretty sure what I feed will not pass muster here, although I've had happy dogs that live for years and years on normal old kibble from the vet or the grocery store. However, I will do my best to keep objective and my mind open to any advice. The only thing I'm closed to considering is cooking (exclusively) for my dog. It is simply not feasible for me or my wife with our work schedules. Anyway, here is my question: What should I feed my dog (dry food with a little canned for palatability is what I am wondering about)? Also, I've read some reviews for foods and Science Diet (I know... it's unacceptable) appears to be no better than arsenic for my dog. I want to know why? Any randomized clinical trials available? Any meta analysis? Is there any real evidence supporting some ingredients over others? Sorry to be so abrupt, but I want to know whats best for my puppy and why.

Thanks
Hoyt

[zimandtakandgrrandmimi]

http://www.dogfoodproject.com/

good link. Full of pertinent info...

[Willowy]

A lot of it is common sense....dogs are carnivores, so they should eat a meat-based food. Many of the grocery store brands have corn as the #1 ingredient, and sometimes a non-meat-based ingredient as #2 and even #3. There are some ingredients that are worthless fillers (powdered cellulose for one), and some that could be dangerous (meniadone is suspect). "Meat and bone meal" (very generic term, and a very common ingredient) could contain rotten roadkill and chemically euthanized cattle.

I doubt any randomized clinical trials have been done, and, if there have been any, I don't know of them. AAFCO certified foods have been through the AAFCO testing trials....but they only require that most of the dogs are still alive after 6 months of eating the food, without losing too much weight, and I'm just not convinced that's good enough.

Here's a good link that tells you how to decipher what's on the pet food label: http://www.dogfoodproject.com/index....e=labelinfo101

Edit: Aww, I must type too slowly. Zim beat me to it .

[Adelyn]

I'd say the high rate of cancer in dogs and dental disease is enough evidence for me. There are foods out there that should be fine but you are much better off with a "micro brew" over bud or coor lite.

Check out some smaller pet food companies that are not owned by any of the big 3. There's halo (but they are pretty $$) solid gold, wellness, and many more.

I found that by the time I bought the better food, it was cheaper for me to just feed them human food. It takes the same amount of time to fed them, the only difference is I pull it out of my frig instead of the closet and I have to buy it more often.

[myminpins]

If you read these links in the order given below, they will educate you about commercial dog food, what ingredients are good, which are bad and how to choose a good kibble.

http://www.ourdogsonline.com/content...edietscam.html

http://www.dogfoodproject.com/index.php?page=intro

http://www.dogfoodproject.com/index....e=labelinfo101

http://www.dogfoodproject.com/index....betterproducts

http://www.dogfoodproject.com/index....badingredients

http://www.dogfoodproject.com/index....g_food_reviews

http://www.dogfoodanalysis.com/dog_f...ndex.php/cat/1

[Nallah06]

Good for you for looking for a good quality food for your dog!

Part of finding a good kibble is educating, like you mentioned. You need to know why they put certain ingredients in and what they do for your dog.

Dogs are Carnivores, therefore the first ingredients should be Meat. Meat should be their main source for protein. When you see corn and such grains among the first few ingredients, they are basically adding those as fillers so they don't have to add as much meat (more expensive).

Dogs can survive on such diets of corn and grains, but that dosn't mean that is whats best for them. Underlying problems can occur when there is a protein deficiency.

The previous posters have added some great links for you to check out and learn about Dog Food! Some of my favorites are:

Wellness & Wellness CORE
Natures Variety
Orijen
Timberwolf


Hopefully this gives you a head start and you can research from there. Good luck, I hope you find a wonderful food for your pup!

[Cheetah]

To add to Nallah's list, there is also:
Eagle Pack (holistic line)
Taste of the Wild

Even:
Kirkland (costco brand)
Natural Balance
Nature's Recipe

Right now I am feeding my two Nature's Variety Instinct and California Natural (rotating between the two) with great results!

Also, when I first got Eevee I was a kid and didn't know much about dog food... so she was fed Alpo, Purina Fit & Trim, Kibbles and Chunks, Beneful etc. She was fat, her coat was dull, she always had horrible gas and she'd periodically just throw up her food for no apparent reason. She never thrived like she does now on a healthier kibble.

[UrbanBeagles]

Originally Posted by Adelyn

I'd say the high rate of cancer in dogs and dental disease is enough evidence for me. There are foods out there that should be fine but you are much better off with a "micro brew" over bud or coor lite.

Cancer is largely due to genetics, and occasionally (such as in osteosarcoma) due to juvenile spay/neuter. Immune system problems/allergies, ear infections, colitis ... they can be food related but the predisposition to these problems are normally genetic underlying immune system problems.
If you're feeding kibble, use what works and forget the hype & marketing gimmicks ( I think it was Solid Gold who started the corn is an allergen myth )

[Westhighlander]

Originally Posted by Hoyt

I've hung around the forums here a couple of days now and I've been purposefully avoiding this area. I'm pretty sure what I feed will not pass muster here, although I've had happy dogs that live for years and years on normal old kibble from the vet or the grocery store. However, I will do my best to keep objective and my mind open to any advice. The only thing I'm closed to considering is cooking (exclusively) for my dog. It is simply not feasible for me or my wife with our work schedules. Anyway, here is my question: What should I feed my dog (dry food with a little canned for palatability is what I am wondering about)? Also, I've read some reviews for foods and Science Diet (I know... it's unacceptable) appears to be no better than arsenic for my dog. I want to know why? Any randomized clinical trials available? Any meta analysis? Is there any real evidence supporting some ingredients over others? Sorry to be so abrupt, but I want to know whats best for my puppy and why.

Thanks
Hoyt

If your dogs are happy then you are feeding the right kibble already.

[Hoyt]

Thank you all for the replies Objectively and scientifically, common sense and opinions are useless. However, these articles do make some good points. The argument that dogs are exclusively carnivores doesn't sit right with me though. I realize that wolves are, but a dog is not a wolf (anybody wanna set me straight? ). Also, a lot of the feeds listed have non-meat items in their menu.
Anyway, of all the feeds recommended the only one that is available locally for me is the Natures Balance. Forty bucks for a thirty three pound bag is not out of reason. So, would you here recommend this for my puppy? Thanks!

Hoyt

[Cheetah]

Natural Balance is a good food. I would feed it to my dogs with no worries if the other brands I currently feed became unavailable.

[Willowy]

Originally Posted by Hoyt

The argument that dogs are exclusively carnivores doesn't sit right with me though. I realize that wolves are, but a dog is not a wolf (anybody wanna set me straight? ). Also, a lot of the feeds listed have non-meat items in their menu.

Dogs aren't obligate carnivores like cats are. However, they are PRIMARILY carnivorous, so a high percentage of meat is desirable in dog food. The other ingredients are for supplementation. Wild canids have been observed eating greens, berries, and stuff like that, but of course the bulk of their diet is meat and bones.

[flipgirl]

Originally Posted by Hoyt

Thank you all for the replies Objectively and scientifically, common sense and opinions are useless. However, these articles do make some good points. The argument that dogs are exclusively carnivores doesn't sit right with me though. I realize that wolves are, but a dog is not a wolf (anybody wanna set me straight? ). Also, a lot of the feeds listed have non-meat items in their menu.
Anyway, of all the feeds recommended the only one that is available locally for me is the Natures Balance. Forty bucks for a thirty three pound bag is not out of reason. So, would you here recommend this for my puppy? Thanks!

Hoyt

Yes true. However, the dogfood project is also partly one person's opinion. I am also interested in some empirical evidence that proves that corn, wheat or soy are bad ingredients. I'm not arguing that they aren't but I want proof why. Human babies aren't supposed to be given corn until a certain age because of it being a common allergen so does this apply to dogs as well? I just started working at a vet's office and Hill's and Medi=cal are the foods promoted. It seems like a lot of the patients there eat Hill's and Medi-cal on a regular basis and are doing well. Or is it some kind of conspiracy where bad ingredients are put in the food so the dog has to come to the vet more often? As I;ve often said, nutrition is the basis of one's quality of life but the more and more I think about it, I think where is the evidence that certain ingredients are better than others.

[Nallah06]

Originally Posted by Hoyt

Thank you all for the replies Objectively and scientifically, common sense and opinions are useless. However, these articles do make some good points. The argument that dogs are exclusively carnivores doesn't sit right with me though. I realize that wolves are, but a dog is not a wolf (anybody wanna set me straight? ). Also, a lot of the feeds listed have non-meat items in their menu.
Anyway, of all the feeds recommended the only one that is available locally for me is the Natures Balance. Forty bucks for a thirty three pound bag is not out of reason. So, would you here recommend this for my puppy? Thanks!

Hoyt

Dog: Canis lupis familiaris

Dogs are a domesticated subspecies of Grey Wolves. Its true! The mtDNA of a dog and a grey wolf only differ by 0.2%. So, in a sense, they are pretty darned close to a Wolf.

And, by classification a dog is a carnivore. They eat primarily meat. They are NOT an obligate carnivore like a cat, who MUST survive on meat alone. Dogs can survive on other sources, but meat is their best and most valuable source for protein. This is why it is so important to have MEAT as your main ingredients in your daily feeding routines.

[rosemaryninja]

Originally Posted by Hoyt

Anyway, of all the feeds recommended the only one that is available locally for me is the Natures Balance. Forty bucks for a thirty three pound bag is not out of reason. So, would you here recommend this for my puppy? Thanks!

Hoyt

I have fed Natural Balance with excellent results. It's a very decent and affordable food. It's also an all-life stages food, meaning it's suitable for puppies, adults and seniors alike.

[Hoyt]

Well 3 months and 5 bags of Natural balance later. My little puppy is now a 120# wrecking machine. Awfully cute though. His bm's have stayed pretty much loose the entire time on this feed. I kept waiting for him to get used to it but too no avail. I'm going back to science diet.

[flipgirl]

How about trying Wellness or Eagle Pack Holistic Selects before Science Diet? Nature's Variety makes a good kibble. They have a Prairie formula made with grains, Instinct which is grain-free, dehydrated raw food and raw food patties or 'chubbies'. I would strongly suggest the raw patties. They are convenient, just have to thaw and feed. Your dog's poops will be firmer, less in amount and less stinky. It's expensive, relative to grocery store brands but at least you won't be spending a lot of money on the Science Diet stuff. Sorry to be so down on SD but Iwork at an animal hospital and I refuse to promote it. Too much filler and unknown ingredients. I feed my dog raw patties and her poops are firm, small and less stinky. I know people are concerned about raw and cross contamination. But if you handle the patties like you would the meat you cook for yourself, then there's nothing to worry about. I've had no problems with her licking me. What I do is take out the patties I need for the next day and put them in the fridge to thaw. (I don't like microwaving).

[MyRescueCrew]

Well 3 months and 5 bags of Natural balance later. My little puppy is now a 120# wrecking machine. Awfully cute though. His bm's have stayed pretty much loose the entire time on this feed. I kept waiting for him to get used to it but too no avail. I'm going back to science diet.

NB gave my dog the runs too.

Honestly, if what you were on before was working fine, stick with what works. There's no one food out there that's perfect for every dog. Dogs CAN thrive on cheaper foods, there's entirely too many out there that do.