[KarlKatzke]

I'd been feeding Henry Innova Adult and he's had loose stool problems since I got him. Since we're just finishing a 'reset' where I fasted him for 24 hours and started a run of antibiotics prescribed by my vet, I grabbed some Wellness Simple Rice & Venison (just a small bag) at the store today while I was restocking to try him on a different food... and one that might be less inclined to create poop asplosions.

With the Innova, he and Eo both wolf it like I'm about to steal the bowl from them and they'll never make any more ever again. He was VERY interested when I opened the bag of Wellness, but when I gave him his bowl he took the time to chew thoroughly and (anthropomorphizing, of course) it seemed thoughtfully. It took him about 2-3 times what it normally takes him to finish his cup of food.

I wonder: Good or bad?

[StarfishSaving]

I think that it's possible that it has to do with the fact that it is a new food- it's not a part of the routine anymore. A new taste, new protein, and a new kibble type... and I suspect that Wellness Simple is pretty bland compared to some other foods based on the principle of its formulas. But it might be just what you need!

"Poop asplosions" made me crack up, btw.

[RawFedDogs]

Originally Posted by KarlKatzke

I'd been feeding Henry Innova Adult and he's had loose stool problems since I got him. Since we're just finishing a 'reset' where I fasted him for 24 hours and started a run of antibiotics prescribed by my vet,

Antibiotics can and often does cause loose stools. How long have you had him? What was he eating before he came to live with you?

I grabbed some Wellness Simple Rice & Venison (just a small bag) at the store today while I was restocking to try him on a different food... and one that might be less inclined to create poop asplosions.

Changing foods can be another cause of soft stools.

but when I gave him his bowl he took the time to chew thoroughly and (anthropomorphizing, of course) it seemed thoughtfully. It took him about 2-3 times what it normally takes him to finish his cup of food.

In the real world dogs don't chew the way humans do. They rip, tear, and crush until the food is small enough to swallow whole. Kibble is already small enough to swallow whole.

I wonder: Good or bad?

With kibble, who knows? I don't think it matters one way or the other. I don't think its a sign of anything.

[KarlKatzke]

I've had him since July ... so what, four months? I (personally) rescued him from an abusive/neglect environment. He had whipworms to the point where his stool was mostly worm, blood, and intestinal lining. He lived on a solid diet of Ol' Roy and pizza crusts and was about 40 lbs. We dewormed him twice right away and fed him half i/d and half kibble for a couple of months, during which he occasionally had solid stool but mostly had loose... which we expected, but at least there wasn't any blood.

Four weeks ago, he had a bout of diarrhea in the house in the early morning hours, and there was some amount of blood in it. He's not had solid stool then. There are no signs of whipworms or eggs in stool samples that I've taken in to get tested. We nailed him with Drontil and Metronidazole again anyway just to be on the safe side, and after this "reset" I'm trying him on a simpler food. I know, I know, stop changing everything so that you can rule things out ... but I was hoping to have him rehomed by now, not still be treating him! I won't rehome a dog that I know is still sickly.

My personal feeling is that he's either allergic to something in the Innova or that there's too much fiber in it (no other signs of allergies, but he does scratch at his ribs fairly frequently with his back leg), or that he's so torn up inside from having whipworm that bad that he's got some significant internal scarring and his guts aren't ever going to work quite right again... and as they try to heal he's going to occasionally shed his intestinal lining. He's put on weight just fine (is now a nice 5/9 at 55 lbs... you can't see his spine anymore!) and is happy to be my jogging partner (and when we're not working hard on his separation anxiety, which could also be part of the tummy issue, my afternoon napping on the couch partner...).

If his stool doesn't firm up in another week or two, I'm going to go talk to the vet again and see what else we can do. He's a stoic son of a b---- and will only show the most subtle signs of being in pain. Him not being able to tell me if his stomach hurts or not sucks!

[RawFedDogs]

Originally Posted by KarlKatzke

We nailed him with Drontil and Metronidazole again anyway just to be on the safe side, and after this "reset" I'm trying him on a simpler food.

The simplest food on his digestive system would be a diet of raw meat, bones, and organs but I don't think you are willing to try that. The next bes thing would be cooked boneless chicken and rice. As for kibbles, you might try one of the high protein grainless ones such as EVO or Orijen. You see, its the carbs that irritate the digestive system the worst. The fewer carbs you feed, the better off you are.

I know, I know, stop changing everything so that you can rule things out ... but I was hoping to have him rehomed by now, not still be treating him! I won't rehome a dog that I know is still sickly.

Cool

My personal feeling is that he's either allergic to something in the Innova or that there's too much fiber in it (no other signs of allergies, but he does scratch at his ribs fairly frequently with his back leg), or that he's so torn up inside from having whipworm that bad that he's got some significant internal scarring and his guts aren't ever going to work quite right again... and as they try to heal he's going to occasionally shed his intestinal lining.

Are you sure he doesn't have fleas? I don't pay much attention to the fiber content of kibbles. In reality over half of most all kibbles is fiber. Thats the reason the stools are so large. Again, the easiest thing on his digestive system is raw meat, bones, and organs.

He's put on weight just fine (is now a nice 5/9 at 55 lbs... you can't see his spine anymore!) and is happy to be my jogging partner (and when we're not working hard on his separation anxiety, which could also be part of the tummy issue, my afternoon napping on the couch partner...).

Cool that means he's getting some nutrition from the food he's eating. Another thought i just had ... try feeding him more meals/day and make each meal smaller. Often feeding more volume than the stomach can effectively work with will cause diarrhea or soft stools. Don't expect real solid stools as long as he's on antibiotics.

He's a stoic son of a b---- and will only show the most subtle signs of being in pain. Him not being able to tell me if his stomach hurts or not sucks!

Try watching him when he doesn't know he is being watched. A sick dog will try to hide his sickness because in the wild, a sick animal is a target of preditors. If he doesn't know he's being watched, his body language will be more likely to give you a true picture of how he is feeling.

[KarlKatzke]

His body language is overly submissive no matter what happens. He has a hard time playing with my bully/overdominant/frankly-just-a-typical-ridgeback Eowyn (and I have to monitor them) because she'll push him or try and initiate play and he will just roll over on his back and lay there, and she does the whole "No, STUPID!" routine to get him to play -- play bows, submission and a chase-me posture, and then finally just grabs him by the collar and drags him around the yard like a 55 lbs stuffed toy. It'd be kinda funny if it wasn't so pitiful... He's gotten MUCH better than when he first came to live here. I looked outside the other night and actually saw him chasing her, then saw them switch, and then switch back. (Come to think of it, we're at 6 days without a loss-of-fur incident (aka Eowyn hasn't accidentally or purposely gotten aggressive with him in six days) -- that's a new record!)

When he's alone in the yard and doesn't know he's being watched, he's either watching me through the window or door begging to be let in, he's standing in a "guard/attention" posture near the back gate listening to kids and cars go by, or he's flat out on his side sleeping in the shade somewhere. Nothing that would worry me.

Thanks for asking about that, though, I hadn't thought about it before you brought it up.

I'm *very* sure he does not have fleas. Is he used to having fleas? Yes. Does he currently have even one bug anywhere on his body? Nope. The yard is flea-free (We have a chinch bug problem and any fleas in the yard were "collateral damage" in my war against the lawn eating monsters) and both dogs are on K9 Advantix monthly -- Eowyn's favorite thing in the world is tummy rubs, so I get to investigate the thinner hair on her nethers for fleas at least twice daily. Henry will roll over if you so much as look at him. Haven't seen a flea in almost two years on Eo, flea bites would show up on her as red welts since she's very allergic to them, and I used to pick them off of her because she'd pick them up at my ex's house out in the country.

He's definitely getting nutrition from the food, and his coat did great things the same way Eo's did when he started eating the Innova -- he actually grew hair on his stomach and boy parts, which were both bare (and red and irritated... and I won't even go into what the constant diarrhea did to his backside) before. He was prone to dandruff when I first got him, but his coat stays slick and his skin's healthy without signs of flaking or irritation even with the weekly bathings that I enforce during the "winter" to keep "Eau de Hound" down to a manageable level. I guess I'd agree that I'm not too worried about the fiber content frankly, just more worried that there seems to be portions of the meal that he's not digesting very well and that there's occasionally mucus in his stool. (Not to mention that bout of bloody diarrhea a month ago.)

One other thing I've changed too is how often I wash things like their bowls. Eo's immune system is as healthy as a country boy's and could eat from the same food bowl for a month without you washing it, eat half the grass (and bugs and dirt) in the yard, and then come inside and play with a Kong that has fifteen days worth of caked, rotten peanut butter in it's skinny end. Since the vet has been placing her bet on henry's problem being some sort of bacteria, I've started washing food bowls every other day and washing the water dispenser weekly, kongs go in the dishwasher every time I run it, I clean their kennels with clorox wipes weekly, etc. I'm hoping between that and the regular bathings and changes of bedding that if there was something he brought into the environment that he's suceptable to and keeps reinfecting himself with, it'll be taken care of.

[MaxwellsMommy]

JUst a thought... have you talked to your vet about Giardia?

[KarlKatzke]

Giardia was the first thing we thought of, and that's why he was on the Metronidazole.

I forgot to mention one other thing I changed -- I threw out absorbant toys (rag toys) and started sanitizing the other toys (kongs, nylabones, rubber chews, good cuzes) in the dishwasher on a regular basis.

[poohlp]

have you tried putting some plain Yogurt and some probiotics in his food? That might help reset the bgood bacteria in his stomach, which, between the antibiotics and the former neglect, probably got wiped out.

[KarlKatzke]

Yep! Actually, both of them get a fairly regular dose of natural (not probiotic-laced, but NATURAL) greek yogurt. I don't really like the flavor of it, but they lick their food bowls for an entire day after eating it, so...