[wolfsnaps]

I like the raw diet so don't yell at me when I tell you this.

Sargeant just crapped on my husbands shirt that was on the floor (ugh, and on the new toy I bought for Sarge). I just let him out and he came in the room and crapped. Nice huh? It was very oily and smelly. I figure its a combination of reasons why this happened.

Like I have said, I am a part time raw feeder for situational reasons. Usually Sarge's poops are small, firm and sometimes turn white. I think that one reason his system pushed this lovely dump out is because Sarge ate kibble yesterday (and not much at that)..though that has never bothered him before.

The bigger reason is (I think) because I combined too many meats for their dinner tonight. They got all meat pork ribs (I didn't realize they were boneless, whoops...no biggie though), bone in chicken breasts (Sarge only ate the fatty skin off of his and its in the fridge for tomorrow), and sardines (in water, just to try and see if they would eat it). So three different sources might have been too much and thats my fault. Oh, and they also got some left over cooked pork chops (boneless) that my mother in law was going to throw out (they were three days old).

They ate until they refused, I didn't weigh out their food. Huntercould stand to gain a few pounds, however Sarge could stand to lose a little.

Oh, and also, they HATE organ meat! What the heck am I going to do? I tried chicken hearts, livers, and gizzards as well as beef liver.I even tried to offer it to them cooked! I forced it down their throats but I don't want to do that again, meal time should be enjoyable. And hey, I am being honest here, so don't jump down MY throat, I only want whats best for my guys. Organ meat, while only a small amount is needed, is still important.

And just because...here is Sarge, the fifth Beatle!!!!!!

[briteday]

Oh my! Yes, the mere combination of what you fed would give most dogs gastric distress! Too much variety, new foods, and gut wrenching combinations at that. Slow down that wagon train and stick to one species per meal. It is supposed to be "balance over time" not "balance at every meal." My dogs would eat until they killed themselves so I never allow them to eat until they stop. Mine would never stop unless they fell over at the food bowl. Yikes!

Organs...I found that I had to try some different things with getting my dogs to eat organs. You can grind / mash it and bury it in some meat. Or you can try slathering it with something they really like, in my house that is a SMALL DRIZZLE of fish oil (anything more gives me the same results you got). Or you can try different species of organ meat. My dogs will eat just about anything except for lamb kidneys and turkey organs. So we stick with chicken, beef, and pork organs.

[RawFedDogs]

Originally Posted by wolfsnaps

Like I have said, I am a part time raw feeder for situational reasons. Usually Sarge's poops are small, firm and sometimes turn white. I think that one reason his system pushed this lovely dump out is because Sarge ate kibble yesterday (and not much at that)..though that has never bothered him before.

I think "part time raw feeder" is a part of the problem.

The bigger reason is (I think) because I combined too many meats for their dinner tonight. ... <snip> ... So three different sources might have been too much and thats my fault.

Ordinarily, this wouldn't be a problem. I often feed my dogs, fish, beef heart, beef liver, eggs, and sometimes some pork all in one meal. It never causes a problem. My dogs are seasoned raw eaters. I think the kibble and too much volume is the biggest part of the problem.

Oh, and they also got some left over cooked pork chops (boneless) that my mother in law was going to throw out (they were three days old).

3 day old pork chops are no big deal. I think volume of food was also a contributor to this problem. This sounds like a pretty large meal to me.

Oh, and also, they HATE organ meat! What the heck am I going to do? I tried chicken hearts, livers, and gizzards as well as beef liver.I even tried to offer it to them cooked!

There are several things you can do. My dogs learned to eat liver when I hid very small bits in a mixture of fish and chunks of beef heart. Over time I gradually increased the liver amount and they never noticed. Now they will just take a large chunk of liver right out of my hand.

Some people have luck by feeding partially frozen liver. I think its the texture they don't like and partially frozen makes it more solid stuff. Some people have seared their livers briefly to get the dogs to eat it. One of the three methods should work for you.

BTW: For our purposes, heart is not an organ. It is a muscle. Same with tongue. Liver, kidneys, pancreas, lungs are organs. Heart is a very nutritious muscle and should be a part of any dog's diet, it is still just a muscle with some blood vessels intertwined in it.

[kelliope]

I have a question about not eating organ meats. My dogs also will not touch anything containing liver (I haven't tried anything else yet).

My mom (who is an RN) does not believe it is healthy to eat liver. According to her, since liver is the body's main filter it has a build up of toxins and heavy metals.

Is it possible that dogs don't eat liver because they can sense that they shouldn't? That they can smell or otherwise detect it is unhealthy or has toxins?

I am just wondering because my mom is pretty right on about most things.

And I thought it was only my dogs, but I have to wonder about forcing the dog to eat something by hiding it in their food. Also, as I said on my other thread, I've noticed the stomach and liver (I assume) of small mammals left behind on my hikes. Something at the animal, but left those parts. Even the head is gone, but those parts remain.

[Kathyy]

Maxwell always gets a variety of food a day too. I am afraid to balance over a week, my memory isn't good enough! So he gets an egg yolk, boney meat [chicken,fish or pork], beef organ meat and meat [pork, chicken, beef, turkey] in some variation daily in three tiny meals. If I wasn't feeding Sassy three meals a day it would be two but he is jealous enough as it is, at least he is eating a bit when she gets fed. I weigh religiously and pack meals in baggies. He has lost 2 pounds and I can feel his shoulderblades better now he has been on 10 ounces a day for a month or so.

Sargeant isn't a big guy, try weighing his food for a while.

If the organs aren't going down I would be making doggy cookies so it isn't wasted. Have you tried making doggy cookies with organ plus garlic?

[RawFedDogs]

Originally Posted by kelliope

My mom (who is an RN) does not believe it is healthy to eat liver. According to her, since liver is the body's main filter it has a build up of toxins and heavy metals.

Your mom is exactly right ... and wrong. The liver is a filter and it filters toxins BUT it sends those toxins to the kidneys to be eliminated from the body. The liver does not store toxins. It is probably the most nutritious part of the body ounce for ounce.

Is it possible that dogs don't eat liver because they can sense that they shouldn't? That they can smell or otherwise detect it is unhealthy or has toxins?

Nope and nope.

I am just wondering because my mom is pretty right on about most things.

She isn't alone in her thinking. I have seen this before. But the next most nutritious organ in the body are the kidneys and ALL the bad stuff goes through them. The most common belief for the reason many dogs are hesitant about eating liver until they get used to it is because of the slimey gooey texture.

Also, as I said on my other thread, I've noticed the stomach and liver (I assume) of small mammals left behind on my hikes.

Look closely next time. I think what you are seeing is stomach and a nice neat pile of intestines. Thats they way my cats leave prey animals they catch. My dogs will eat the stomach after shaking out the contents and only leave the neat little pile of intestines.

Originally Posted by Kathyy

I am afraid to balance over a week, my memory isn't good enough!

Hehe, balancing over a month in fine. There is really nothing to balancing. Feed a variety of animal parts from a vareity of animals ... mostly meat, some bone, and some organs and balance is automatically taken care of by nature. There is certainly no need to feed it all in one day. I just reach in the freezer and pull something out. If I see something I haven't fed in a while, I will feed that.

The last two things in the world I worry about is balance and bacteria. They are both taken care of automatically. The things I do worry about are volume and variety. If those two are good, everything else is good.

[Shaina]

Originally Posted by RawFedDogs

Some people have luck by feeding partially frozen liver. I think its the texture they don't like and partially frozen makes it more solid stuff.

Yeah, mine will happily eat organ if it's partially frozen, but Kim really hesitates and is less than thrilled about fresh stuff...from her behavior I think it's the texture that's the issue.

[kelliope]

Originally Posted by RawFedDogs

The most common belief for the reason many dogs are hesitant about eating liver until they get used to it is because of the slimey gooey texture.

Mine take one sniff (from a distance even) and walk warily around their bowl like I'm trying to poison them. They've never even been close enough to notice the texture.

Is there any other organ I can feed besides liver? Do I have to feed liver?

[RawFedDogs]

Originally Posted by kelliope

Mine take one sniff (from a distance even) and walk warily around their bowl like I'm trying to poison them. They've never even been close enough to notice the texture.

Go to the grocery store and get some canned salmon. Feed them a meal of that. If they eat it ok, a few days later feed it again only this time with the teensy tinest piece of liver in it. Not laying on top but mixed in it to where even you can't find it. If that works, and it probably will, continue every few days with a little more and little more liver. Dogs the size of yours only need the tiniest bit of liver anyway.

Is there any other organ I can feed besides liver? Do I have to feed liver?

Liver is pretty important. Will they die without it? Probably not. Will they get sick if they don't get any? Probably not. But they SHOULD get some once in a while. My 145lb dogs only get less than half a pound a week. I never feed any to my cats but they catch a lot of wild prey and I'm sure they eat the liver there.

Watch your attitude about the liver around them also. It's possible that your stress over the liver has caused them to be afraid of it. Don't make a big deal out of it. It is no big deal if it takes a month to get them to eat it. Even 2 months is ok. Just don't give up.

[briteday]

Or try liver from different animals. If they are refusing beef liver try chicken liver. My dogs won't touch lamb kidneys but have no problem with pork or beef kidneys.

[jesirose]

Originally Posted by kelliope

My mom (who is an RN) does not believe it is healthy to eat liver. According to her, since liver is the body's main filter it has a build up of toxins and heavy metals.

Is it possible that dogs don't eat liver because they can sense that they shouldn't? That they can smell or otherwise detect it is unhealthy or has toxins?

I am just wondering because my mom is pretty right on about most things.

No offense to your mom - my mother is also an RN, and there have been several times when we just have to disagree about things like that, when she thinks she knows better because she's not only my mom but an RN. Even moms and nurses make mistakes. My mom who is a brilliant woman, who has devoted her life to medicine, has tried to talk me out of taking a prescribed medication AND having a procedure my doctor recommended, because she was just uninformed on those things. Later she admitted she was wrong (shocker).

My dog loves liver. She's eaten some beef liver, a rabbit liver, and 2 whole chicks, which included their livers. LIVER.

Some dogs will eat most anything, some don't like to eat anything, most are in between I think. But go look at how many posts there are about dogs eating rocks and underwear. They can't smell that those things aren't very good for them. But mm are they tasty. Not to mention poop of any kind.

Have you tried different animal livers?