[Sophie's Mom]

I have no idea what to do. I have bee reading everyone's forums and posts and I still don't know which food is the right choice.
Sophie has been on Bill Jac for a year now. I was happy with it. Her coat was great her bowles were solid and she wasn't staining the grass.
Then Someone on another site told me that Bil Jac is not thay great and I should get her off it. So I freaked out.
Now she is not eating as much as she use to, her coat is not as shinny and smooth as it was and she is now staining the grass.
So I need to get her on a better diet, but how do I know what will be best for her.
I also don't want to have to try a bunch of different foods that would not be good for her.
I have the information and now I am not sure which type or types would be the best.
I am just so frustrated I just needed to vent. I just want to be a good dog owner and feed my dog good food that will help her grow and have a great life.

Thanks for reading

[CinnamintStick]

What did you change her diet to that took her shinny coat away?

When I am picking a food for my dogs alot depends on the dogs breed and age. My large breed puppy gets a different food from my other dogs. I like chicken, turkey and fish as my protein. I feed them like I would eat if I am eating meat. I stay away from red meat. I do stay away from corn but not for the same reason that many people stay away from corn. To me corn is to high in Omega 6 and is high on the glycemic index. I like my ration of Omega 3 to Omega 6 to be clase to 1 to 4 or better. Most of the Omega 3 should come from fish. Perferably a sorce low in mercury like wild Atlanic salmon or sardines. I do like sweet potatoes because I think they are a power house in nutrition. I like most of my fiber sorces to come from soluable fiber to slow digestion and keep blood sugar stable. A few I like is flax seed meal, sweet potatoes, oatmeal, apples, and berries.

[briteday]

I think to make it as simple as possible you can't go wrong with 4-5-6 star foods from dogfoodanalysis.com. So you look around the website, choose 6-8 foods that you think might be good, find an independent retailer that carries a bunch of these brands, go in and talk to them about your need/budget/dog (take dog if possible so they can see him)/what you are trying to accomplish by food switch/ issues your dog has had in the past with any foods. The little stores usually have free small sample bags for you to try before you buy. As you may think a certain food is great but if your dog won't eat it = not great.

[Patt]

I'm curious what food did you switch her to? I'm a big believer in the saying "If it ain't broke, don't fix it". Yes, perhaps a better quality of food would be best but if she doesn't like the food, it sure wasn't a good idea. Did you switch her graduallly? Perhaps this is why she didn't like it.

Along with the Dog Analysis site, please check www.dogaware.com it lists different top dog foods to choose from.

Don't take the Internet too seriously! Vent any time.

[meg&bernie]

Take your time. Trust me, your head WILL spin. Like someone told me a few weeks ago when I was having a similar problem with trying to find a better dog food, sometimes we will think too much about it and put too much stress on ourselves-probably more than we think about what we feed ourselves and kids. After I heard this it made me feel alittle better knowing there was alot of truth in that statement.

[Sophie's Mom]

I have not switched her over to any new foods. I have been to overwhelmed and not sure which foods would be good for her.
She is on Bil Jac and has been on it for over a year.
The reason that I decided to switch her food was because I started hearing bad things about Bil Jac and I freaked out and now I want to switch her to a better food.
We are now to the point that we still have enough of Bil Jac to make the switch slowly. I just don't want to buy another bag of Bil Jac.
Sophie also has a hip problem and when I was reading the post on the top dog foods, some of them have supliments in them that can help with joint and hip pain.
I also want to get her off grains so I am looking for foods with out grains.
I love my dog and want whats best for her so she can live and stay healthy as long as possible.
Thanks for the suggestions. It made me feel much better. I just don't want to get another bad dog food.

[Cottage Rose]

Everybody is going to give you a different opinion which will lead to more confusion.
When it comes to premium dog foods I personally think if doesn't contain corn, wheat or soy its probably going to be ok and I'm guessing most brands won't vary that much in quality. What it boils down to is: can you afford it, will your dog eat it and do well on it.
Sounds like your dog was doing well Bil Jac...so why switch?
I've had dogs that have lived to a ripe old age on corn based dogs foods so maybe people shouldn't get overly concerned about not using them.
I have barn cats that are almost 20 years old that have had nothing but Purina Cat Chow all their life.

[UrbanBeagles]

Originally Posted by Sophie's Mom

She is on Bil Jac and has been on it for over a year.
The reason that I decided to switch her food was because I started hearing bad things about Bil Jac and I freaked out and now I want to switch her to a better food.
We are now to the point that we still have enough of Bil Jac to make the switch slowly. I just don't want to buy another bag of Bil Jac.
Sophie also has a hip problem and when I was reading the post on the top dog foods, some of them have supliments in them that can help with joint and hip pain.
I also want to get her off grains so I am looking for foods with out grains.

Honestly, if your dog is doing well on Bil Jac, keep her on it!!! Don't listen to the dog food snobs and those STUPID websites that rate kibbles based on ingredients, not results. I've personally tried dozens of the holistic diets and they are nothing to write home about, believe me. Don't get freaked out by what other people on the internet are trying to peddle. Much of the info out there regarding dog food ingredients is such utter hype & propoganda that it makes one's head spin. One ingredient will be ok with one website, and another will bash it. One poster will tell you Brand X is awesome, and if you feed anything else, you're killing your dog - while someone else will give you a horror story about Brand X and go on about how the ingredients are a slow poison. Give. Me. A. Break.

Supplements in dog food are a joke. If you want your dog to have supplementation for a joint problem, the best route is to purchase a something specifically targeted for the issue. MSM & Vitamin C are very inexpensive, yet effective joint supplements, btw. On that note, the average level of Vit C in dog food is 75mg per kg. Compare that to the 250mg a small dog would require, or the 500-1000mg a med to large dog would need for supplemental purposes ... Kibbles with herbs and supplements are nothing more than a marketing gimmick, often havign only trace amounts included.

Grains are good for dogs. I've gone the no grain route and had dogs that *couldn't* start in the field. No stamina and not the greatest coats, either. I am also seeing a connection between some skittish temperament types (that were not present beforeheand) associated with a lack of grains in the diet. A B vitamin deficiency would probably be the culprit in that one. Nothing scientific, just an observation. You also loose nutrients in grain free kibbles. A good grain such as oatmeal or rice has more nutritional value than the potatoes or tapioca or whatever other STARCH they're using to bind these grain free kibbles. When we fed Eukanuba, several of the grain rich formulas were the same level of carbs as some of the grain free - approx 34-38% carbs. Grains or no, kibble still needs starch to stick together and hold it's form. I'd rather give the dog grains that were known to not cause a spike in the blood sugar level (sorghum, oatmeal) than potatoes anyday. Grain free kibble has no effect on dogs with joint problems. Rather, if one looks closer, it's more likely the elevated levels of calcium : phosphorous that tag along with the higher protein levels.

Obviously, she's your dog and if you really feel the need to switch, then do so. But be careful, because I've been in your position before and it literally took years to find a food that worked for the dogs - and hundreds of $$$ in Vet bills when the dogs got sick on foods such as Timberwolf Organic, Back to Basics, Merrick, Canidae ...

http://www.showdogsupersite.com/kenl.../dogdiets.html

http://www.woodhavenlabs.com/dogfoods.html

[Shalva]

Originally Posted by UrbanBeagles

Honestly, if your dog is doing well on Bil Jac, keep her on it!!! Don't listen to the dog food snobs and those STUPID websites that rate kibbles based on ingredients, not results. I've personally tried dozens of the holistic diets and they are nothing to write home about, believe me. Don't get freaked out by what other people on the internet are trying to peddle. Much of the info out there regarding dog food ingredients is such utter hype & propoganda that it makes one's head spin. One ingredient will be ok with one website, and another will bash it. One poster will tell you Brand X is awesome, and if you feed anything else, you're killing your dog - while someone else will give you a horror story about Brand X and go on about how the ingredients are a slow poison. Give. Me. A. Break.

Supplements in dog food are a joke. If you want your dog to have supplementation for a joint problem, the best route is to purchase a something specifically targeted for the issue. MSM & Vitamin C are very inexpensive, yet effective joint supplements, btw. On that note, the average level of Vit C in dog food is 75mg per kg. Compare that to the 250mg a small dog would require, or the 500-1000mg a med to large dog would need for supplemental purposes ... Kibbles with herbs and supplements are nothing more than a marketing gimmick, often havign only trace amounts included.

Grains are good for dogs. I've gone the no grain route and had dogs that *couldn't* start in the field. No stamina and not the greatest coats, either. I am also seeing a connection between some skittish temperament types (that were not present beforeheand) associated with a lack of grains in the diet. A B vitamin deficiency would probably be the culprit in that one. Nothing scientific, just an observation. You also loose nutrients in grain free kibbles. A good grain such as oatmeal or rice has more nutritional value than the potatoes or tapioca or whatever other STARCH they're using to bind these grain free kibbles. When we fed Eukanuba, several of the grain rich formulas were the same level of carbs as some of the grain free - approx 34038% carbs. Grains or no, kibble still needs starch to stick together and hold it's form. I'd rather give the dog grains that were known to not cause a spike in the blood sugar level (sorghum, oatmeal) than potatoes anyday. Grain free kibble has no effect on dogs with joint problems. Rather, if one looks closer, it's more likely the elevated levels of calcium : phosphorous that tag along with the higher protein levels.

Obviously, she's your dog and if you really feel the need to switch, then do so. But be careful, because I've been in your position before and it literally took years to find a food that worked for the dogs - and hundreds of $$$ in Vet bills when the dogs got sick on foods such as Timberwolf Organic, Back to Basics, Merrick, Canidae ...

What becomes increasingly apparent every time I read another one of your "angry" sounding in your face posts is that you apparently have tried every dog food/feeding method under the sun.....

I dont know how it is possible that you can judge anything to be better than anything else because considering all the various things you supposedly have tried you couldn't possibly have used anything for any length of time..... to really be able to determine whether it is a good food or not....

Ya know the other point here is.... man do you come across as angry ..... calling people names who use other products or view foods different..... every single food post you have made has sounded increasingly angry.....

I agree with your basic premise regarding if your dog is doing well on teh food then why change.... don't fix what isn't broken..... but man do you sound angry

makes me wonder what that insecurity is all about .....

if you are confident with what you are doing do it.... who cares....

but every time I read a post it just makes me wonder more and more.....

s

[CinnamintStick]

Originally Posted by Sophie's Mom

Sophie has been on Bill Jac for a year now. I was happy with it. Her coat was great her bowles were solid and she wasn't staining the grass.
Then Someone on another site told me that Bil Jac is not thay great and I should get her off it. So I freaked out.
Now she is not eating as much as she use to, her coat is not as shinny and smooth as it was and she is now staining the grass.

Most people like me read this and thought that you have chaanged this food but from what I read now the food was working now it is not, and you want to change.

I too have had many dogs like healthy long lives into they late teen and one just weeks from being 20 on Purina brand foods. Even though I know know that corn is not the best, some dogs do fine. I am not so against grain to not feed any. I think there are some good carbs that are grain. They have there place in doggy nutrition. My large breed puppy would be crippled on a grain free diet. Our dogs have evolved.

[UrbanBeagles]

Originally Posted by Shalva

What becomes increasingly apparent every time I read another one of your "angry" sounding in your face posts is that you apparently have tried every dog food/feeding method under the sun.....

I dont know how it is possible that you can judge anything to be better than anything else because considering all the various things you supposedly have tried you couldn't possibly have used anything for any length of time..... to really be able to determine whether it is a good food or not....

Ya know the other point here is.... man do you come across as angry ..... calling people names who use other products or view foods different..... every single food post you have made has sounded increasingly angry.....

I agree with your basic premise regarding if your dog is doing well on teh food then why change.... don't fix what isn't broken..... but man do you sound angry

makes me wonder what that insecurity is all about .....

if you are confident with what you are doing do it.... who cares....

but every time I read a post it just makes me wonder more and more.....

s

Shalva - HUH? Where did THAT come from?

Yeah, bothers me when I come across someone who says they're afraid to feed X diet because someone on the internet said something & now they think they're harming their dog. I was in those shoes 8 years ago, and it definitely opened my eyes to propoganda on the internet regarding canine nutrition. So yeah, it bothers me, but angry? No, I'm not trying to come off as angry. Insecure? LOL. You can spend $50 a bag on designer dog food, and I'll just sit here, laughing to myself, shaking my head. I'm not insecure about what other people feed, or what I feed, just been there done that and trying to offer some friendly advice. I don't see what's angry abotu telling someone that such & such websites are ridiculous and do not offer anything but opinions, which are taken as facts by some. It's another side to the debate, and if you are taking the tone of my posts as being angry, well, I'm sorry you read them that way, but again, I am not trying to come off as angry.

Now, as to your claim that I haven't stuck with anything long enough to really get a feel for the results, that's incorrect. Most of the afformentioned foods were fed an average of 5-6 months, true, some only a few weeks. Raw, grain free raw, we fed for going on 3yrs. I say that's long enough.

Have a nice day Shalva

[fyzbo]

Originally Posted by UrbanBeagles

http://www.showdogsupersite.com/kenl.../dogdiets.html

Loved the link. Totally agree with the part that some people just won't listen. Also reaffirms my choice of Eukanuba. Chose it just to see how it works out compared to "high quality" dog foods, sticking with it because my dogs are thriving.

[Cottage Rose]

Urban Beagle...I didn't think you came across as "angry" nor did you call anybody names.
I thought you had some sound advise...besides...this topic is very subjective and a matter of opinion. You were just voicing yours.
It never ceases to amaze me how people can read the same thing and come to a totally different conclusion.

[UrbanBeagles]

Originally Posted by Cottage Rose

Urban Beagle...I didn't think you came across as "angry" nor did you call anybody names.

Thanks I was starting to wonder if others were reading an angry rant and I just didn't realize it. Was not trying to come off that way, but WAS defintiely showing my frustration at some one sided thoughts on nutrition

[sheltiemom]

I've tried alot of different foods too, 10 or so total, and had mixed results. It absolutely may be that I didn't give any one of them long enough, and I've considered that. I at least finished the bag with all but one of the foods, but I just couldn't bring myself to buy another bag after a food seemed to be causing foul gas or weight loss. It seemed like they didn't do well on anything as puppies, and I ended up with Purina One as a sort of "I give up" food, but I had no problems with it at all for months and months. I did try again rather recently, mainly because of forum peer pressure, lol, and found a couple of premium foods I liked, but then I started having availability issues with one, and finally the store I was buying from closed down completely. After a particularly frustrating day of driving around burning gas and looking for a feed store that was supposed to be nearby according to the internet, but I couldn't find to save my life, I called DH and had him pick up a bag of PO at the grocery store. Now I'm wondering why I ever tried to fix what wasn't broken. I'm still intrigued by raw and might try it at some point, but I really don't want to think about dog food again for a while.

[Trixie]

The food issue made my head spin. I was so overwhelmed with information and dogfoodanalysis.com was really irritating. It didn't tell me anything.

I want facts, pros and cons, and then I will make up my own mind. Oh, and the pup will also help decide based on what she does well on.

We have a food now, and I am not changing it. I'm not thrilled with corn and fillers, but after that, I really looked for something she liked. Some foods were too rich (Chicken Soup was not a good food for her) and finally Canidae worked and we could afford it and it is available at our independent store.

So, that is what I based our decision on. Start with what you want, try a few samples, and take it from there. It shouldn't be so difficult, but I know it is.

[flipgirl]

Originally Posted by Cottage Rose

Urban Beagle...I didn't think you came across as "angry" nor did you call anybody names.
I thought you had some sound advise...besides...this topic is very subjective and a matter of opinion. You were just voicing yours.
It never ceases to amaze me how people can read the same thing and come to a totally different conclusion.

I may be wrong but Urban Beagles said, "don't listen to the dog food snobs" so maybe Shalva thought you were calling those who feed 'holistic' foods 'snobs'. I'm not saying I agree with either person, just maybe why Shalva reacted that way.

Anyway, there's no way to say that one dog food is good for all dogs. There are a lot of dogs who do well on Eukanuba but my brother's lab, who had epilepsy, was on it. He was having seizures every 3 weeks. I suggested that he change his food so he changed to Wellness. After that, he only had seizures every 3 months. There was no change in his medication or routines. His coat was shinier and he didn't poop as much. They did end up changing his meds later on but was it coincidence that his seizures reduced when his food was changed? Possibly but not likely. I'm not saying Eukanuba is bad food, just that it wasn't working for my brother's lab.

I cannot say whether dogs need all the extras that are in the holistic foods and obviously, there are dogs who cannot tolerate these supplements. All I know is that food is a huge part of the quality of life, for dogs or humans or any other being. So if your dog is healthy and thriving on the food you're giving him, don't change it. I'll always wonder if I'm giving my dog the best food because I'm neurotic that way but I see the results - shiny, healthy coat, bright eyes, vitality, no health problems (no visits to the vet)- so I know that, at the moment, she's getting good food.

having said that, there are foods out there that I would not feed, like Beneful or Kibbles n Bits. On top of the ingredients like propylene glycol, hydrochloric acid and colour, I've seen the results on dogs who have been fed these foods and they're not pretty. I don't really believe a food will extend a dog's life but just increase its quality of life.

So yes, choosing a dog food that's right for your dog, sucks but if your dog is doing well on it, don't worry! As long as you keep an eye on how he's doing on the food, you're doing all right!

[Sophie's Mom]

I love this site.
I love reading all your oppinions and experiances, and I have decided that you are all correct in your feelings. There is not one food brand out there that is good for every single dog. You do what is best for your dog, and a couple of you said it, "If it works don't fix it."
My Husband said I am being overly concerned and there is nothing wrong with the food we are feeding the dog. She is doing fine and she has no health problems so why fix whats not broken.
Sophie is my baby since I don't have any kids and i just want to make sure I am doing my best. She is healthy and active so I wont stress so much about the food.

Thanks again
Sophie's Mom

[meg&bernie]

Well said Urban Beagles!! Oh, and sheltiemom--I also switched because of forum peer pressure! Sophie's Mom, my husband said the exact same thing and I said the same as you--I don't have any kids and he's my baby and I want the best for him!

[UrbanBeagles]

I may be wrong but Urban Beagles said, "don't listen to the dog food snobs" so maybe Shalva thought you were calling those who feed 'holistic' foods 'snobs'. I'm not saying I agree with either person, just maybe why Shalva reacted that way.

Just to clarify, was not referring to just anyone who feeds holistic diets. I actually don't think most of them are bad, per se, as some have reasonable ingredient lists and are tested in feeding trials. Many others I think are marketing gimmicks, pure & simple. My reference to food snobs are those who prefer holistic and/or the ultra $$$ foods AND berate others who choose to feed something else. The ones that nitpick every single ingredient down to the names of the vitamins and make others feel stupid or negligent by feeding something other than holistic type feeds ... or raw Most people are fine with their choices of feed, but when you start blaming every runny nose and fleck of dandruff on diet and really scare a pet owner into pulling their dog off an "inferior" food ... that irks me pretty badly. It's definitely the minority who are like this, but they tend to have a major effect with their scare tactics.
But again, NOT talking about anyone in general who just happens to feed holistic food. I actually think some of them are good and worth looking into - not because they're holistic but they are very results oriented foods.