[Striker2807]

I know I have posted a bunch of threads trying to find a high quality dog food for my puppy and I know I said raw wasn't possible for me, but I just got the book Dr. Pitcairn's Complete Guide to Natural Health for Dogs & Cats and I have begun reading it and I have to say my I am thinking of making it possible to feed raw.

I won't make the change for a few weeks till I have more knowledge and I feel comfortable doing it, but I was just wondering if all the raw feeders could just give me some tips that will help me ease into this new way of feeding.

Also in Dr. Pitcairn's book he recommends feeding grains, which I have read that dogs don't need so do you think it would be safe to take them out of the recipes or would this lead to a deficiency of some kind? Also what about Vegetables I have heard dogs don't need them either?

[xkitxgirx]

Read "Raw Dog Food-Make it Easy For you and Your dog" By Carina Beth Macdonald. It is a GREAT starter book. She isn't a vet or anything but she talks from real experience and sort of makes raw not look like such a HUGE scary step. You do not need grains. In my opinion in that book grains are way over used and ingredients are added that don't need to be there which only makes things more difficult. The rule of thumb is to feed about 2% of your dogs weight or potential weight. You feed RMBS(raw meaty bones) and some people feed a little bit of veggie and add supplements to the veggies. You also feed organ. Half liver/half other organ. Percentage wise the most common I've heard is feeding 80% meat, 10% organ, and 10% bone. But as far as bone goes it really depends on your dog. If your scared to start this way you can still feed the recipes in your book and they will be better than kibble, but eventually you should try another way after your used to feeding raw, and take out the grains.

Oh for me comparing how prices would be with both of those diets. Dr. pitcairns would cost me about $90 a month while raw will only cost $30-$60 with good meat deals. I haven't started on raw yet myself but I have done A LOT of research. Just waiting for the right time to start. I'm going on a trip soon and my parents are watching my girl so I can't switch her till after that. Good luck with your research!! And I really think you should read that book I mentioned. It REALLY makes thngs seem a lot easier!!

[Striker2807]

I definitely agree that he uses some ingredients, like grains and even corn, that I don't agree with granted the corn is fresh and not left over waste products from other industries that have stripped it of its nutrients, but still I don't feel comfortable feeding it.

Like I said I am just starting my research so it will probably be a few months before I make the switch, but I will definitely get that book you recommend after I am done reading Dr. Pitcairn's book, which I still think carries vital information.

I can only imagine what my family is going to say when I do make this switch and I start preparing my puppies meals.

Also another question I didn't ask in my initial post is how do you raw feeders going about making the food? Meaning, do you make a few meals ahead of time and then freeze them or how do you do it because I know a lot of time the recipes make more then what you need. I know there is some nights I don't get home till 10:30, 11:00 so it would be difficult for me to prepare a meal at that time. Also do all recipes tell you how much of it you should feed your dog?

[RawFedDogs]

Originally Posted by Striker2807

I definitely agree that he uses some ingredients, like grains and even corn, that I don't agree with granted the corn is fresh and not left over waste products from other industries that have stripped it of its nutrients, but still I don't feel comfortable feeding it.

Hey Striker,
I have been feeding prey model raw for 6 years. I have 2 Great Danes and 2 cats I'm feeding raw. You can take Pitcairn's book and make a door stop out of it. He basically tries to re-engineer kibble and feed it raw. With a prey model diet like I feed, it's both cheap and easy peasy. You feed meat, bones, and organs and nothing else. My Abby(8yo Dane) hasn't eaten any grains, veggies, or fruits in 6 years. My Thor(3yo Dane) has never eaten any in his entire life. The theory behind the prey model diet is that you feed what a wolf or dog would eat in the wild. They don't eat grains, veggies, or fruits and the certainly don't take any supplements.

I can only imagine what my family is going to say when I do make this switch and I start preparing my puppies meals.

Hehe, yes and all your friends and anyone you talk to.

Also another question I didn't ask in my initial post is how do you raw feeders going about making the food?

In prey model raw feeding there is no "making the food". I stand at the kitchen sink and hand out animal parts at meal time. There is nothing to "make". About once a week or so I feed a meal made of raw fish, beef liver, beef heart, and a raw egg. This is the only meal I feed in bowls and the only meal that takes any preperation.

Meaning, do you make a few meals ahead of time and then freeze them or how do you do it because I know a lot of time the recipes make more then what you need.

I buy most of my food in bulk. When I get it home, I let it thaw and then pack one meal portions in Zip Lock bags and refreeze. After each meal, I get the next meal out of the freezer to thaw for the next meal. If I forget to thaw for some reason, I just feed it frozen. The dogs don't care.

I buy chicken backs in 40lb cases for $13, drumsticks(for the cats) in 40lb cases for about $30(lasts about 3 months). I get turkey necks in 30lb cases for about $16 and turkey wings in 30lb cases for about $18. I get beef heart in 60lb cases for about $35 to $40. I get chicken leg quarters at Walmart in 10lb bags for about $5. I get other stuff from the grocery store as it's on sale. This stuff is moslty pork roasts or slabs of pork ribs. I get a lot of free meat from hunter friends and people cleaning out their freezers.

I know there is some nights I don't get home till 10:30, 11:00 so it would be difficult for me to prepare a meal at that time. Also do all recipes tell you how much of it you should feed your dog?

All you do it make sure you take the next meal out of the freezer before you go to work. Nothing to it.

Check out my web page listed below for my suggestions on the easiest way to begin raw feeding that is designed to have the fewest problems.

[Striker2807]

Originally Posted by RawFedDogs

Hey Striker,
I have been feeding prey model raw for 6 years. I have 2 Great Danes and 2 cats I'm feeding raw. You can take Pitcairn's book and make a door stop out of it. He basically tries to re-engineer kibble and feed it raw. With a prey model diet like I feed, it's both cheap and easy peasy. You feed meat, bones, and organs and nothing else. My Abby(8yo Dane) hasn't eaten any grains, veggies, or fruits in 6 years. My Thor(3yo Dane) has never eaten any in his entire life. The theory behind the prey model diet is that you feed what a wolf or dog would eat in the wild. They don't eat grains, veggies, or fruits and the certainly don't take any supplements.

As soon as I first read the best diet for a dog is the one that closely resembles what he or she would eat in the wild because that is what their bodies are designed to handle it made perfect sense to me. Like you said dogs don't eat grains, veggies, or fruits in the wild, if they do it's in the stomach of the prey they eat, and they do fine so it is only natural that they would do fine with out them living a domestic life. I was making the mistake of trying to find that in the commercial kibble you can find in the stores. I now realize you won't find that in dry kibble. So this prey model diet sounds prey good and would be worth checking out.

May I ask how are your dogs and cats? Healthy as can be with shiny coats, firm stool, and just all around showing signs of being healthy? Are they healthier then all your friends that feed commercial pet food.

Originally Posted by RawFedDogs

Hehe, yes and all your friends and anyone you talk to.

Yea I am going to get it bad from my family.

Originally Posted by RawFedDogs

In prey model raw feeding there is no "making the food". I stand at the kitchen sink and hand out animal parts at meal time. There is nothing to "make". About once a week or so I feed a meal made of raw fish, beef liver, beef heart, and a raw egg. This is the only meal I feed in bowls and the only meal that takes any preperation.

Like I said this sounds great because it is exactly what they would eat in the wild. Still it is going to take time for me to reverse years of thinking kibble is the best way to feed a dog.

Originally Posted by RawFedDogs

I buy most of my food in bulk. When I get it home, I let it thaw and then pack one meal portions in Zip Lock bags and refreeze. After each meal, I get the next meal out of the freezer to thaw for the next meal. If I forget to thaw for some reason, I just feed it frozen. The dogs don't care.

I buy chicken backs in 40lb cases for $13, drumsticks(for the cats) in 40lb cases for about $30(lasts about 3 months). I get turkey necks in 30lb cases for about $16 and turkey wings in 30lb cases for about $18. I get beef heart in 60lb cases for about $35 to $40. I get chicken leg quarters at Walmart in 10lb bags for about $5. I get other stuff from the grocery store as it's on sale. This stuff is moslty pork roasts or slabs of pork ribs. I get a lot of free meat from hunter friends and people cleaning out their freezers.

Finding the ingredients is going to take just as much research as I am doing on feeding raw.

Originally Posted by RawFedDogs

Check out my web page listed below for my suggestions on the easiest way to begin raw feeding that is designed to have the fewest problems.

Checking it out now!

[RawFedDogs]

Originally Posted by Striker2807

As soon as I first read the best diet for a dog is the one that closely resembles what he or she would eat in the wild because that is what their bodies are designed to handle it made perfect sense to me. Like you said dogs don't eat grains, veggies, or fruits in the wild, if they do it's in the stomach of the prey they eat, and they do fine so it is only natural that they would do fine with out them living a domestic life.

Actually they don't eat the stomach contents of the larger animals they kill. Only the small animals like rabbits and smaller when they can almost swallow them with a few crunches. My dogs actually don't eat stomach contents of rabbits. They will sissor open the stomach and shake the contents out before they eat the stomach. They don't eat the intestines at all.

I was making the mistake of trying to find that in the commercial kibble you can find in the stores. I now realize you won't find that in dry kibble. So this prey model diet sounds prey good and would be worth checking out.

Its just physically impossible to make a kibble without either grains or starchy veggies like potatoes to bind everything together to create the little doom nuggets.

May I ask how are your dogs and cats? Healthy as can be with shiny coats, firm stool, and just all around showing signs of being healthy? Are they healthier then all your friends that feed commercial pet food.

All my animals are healthy. The only vet visits they have made in the last 6 years is to get heartworm checks. One of the cats got into a fight with some wild critter and had to go to the vet to get stiched up but thats it for cat vet visits. Lower vet bills is one of the benefits of a raw diet. They all have shiney coats, bright pearly teeth, no bad breath, no "doggy" odor, stools don't stink, stools turn to white powder in a couple of days and wash away in the rain. Their Great Dane stools are about the size of your thumb and they usually go once a day. Sometimes they skip a day.

Like I said this sounds great because it is exactly what they would eat in the wild. Still it is going to take time for me to reverse years of thinking kibble is the best way to feed a dog.

Kibble companies have great marketing departments and kibble has become ingrained in many people. However, Kibble has only been in common use for about 30 or 40 years. IT'S the fad diet. Dogs have been eating raw for millions of years. It's the normal diet. What do you think people fed dogs 50 years ago? 100 years ago? 500 years ago?

Finding the ingredients is going to take just as much research as I am doing on feeding raw.

You can find everything you need to feed at most any grocery store. It will take you months to learn how to shop for a raw diet in the cheapest way possible, to find good sources. But for now, a grocery store will do.

[Striker2807]

Originally Posted by RawFedDogs

All my animals are healthy. The only vet visits they have made in the last 6 years is to get heartworm checks. One of the cats got into a fight with some wild critter and had to go to the vet to get stiched up but thats it for cat vet visits. Lower vet bills is one of the benefits of a raw diet. They all have shiney coats, bright pearly teeth, no bad breath, no "doggy" odor, stools don't stink, stools turn to white powder in a couple of days and wash away in the rain. Their Great Dane stools are about the size of your thumb and they usually go once a day. Sometimes they skip a day.

That is great to hear makes me even more eager to try this raw diet! I know my puppy is always shaking her head like she has an ear infection, but the vet says her ears are clear as can be. Wonder if switching to raw will take care o this?

Originally Posted by RawFedDogs

Kibble companies have great marketing departments and kibble has become ingrained in many people. However, Kibble has only been in common use for about 30 or 40 years. IT'S the fad diet. Dogs have been eating raw for millions of years. It's the normal diet. What do you think people fed dogs 50 years ago? 100 years ago? 500 years ago?

Good point because there wasn't kibble back then to feed your dog.

Originally Posted by RawFedDogs

You can find everything you need to feed at most any grocery store. It will take you months to learn how to shop for a raw diet in the cheapest way possible, to find good sources. But for now, a grocery store will do.

Maybe you can help me figure out what I am going to need to start this. I know you touched on it on your website, but do I need to know anything else?

Also I know there is a lot raw feeders on this forum so does anyone else use the Prey Model Raw diet?

[RawFedDogs]

Originally Posted by Striker2807

I know my puppy is always shaking her head like she has an ear infection, but the vet says her ears are clear as can be. Wonder if switching to raw will take care o this?

Depends on what is causing it. My dogs always shake when they stand up from lying down. I think they are straightening their collars. A raw diet won't help that.

Maybe you can help me figure out what I am going to need to start this. I know you touched on it on your website, but do I need to know anything else?

I did more than touch on it. I gave explicit instructions for the first several weeks. If you have trouble finding chicken backs, you can substitute chicken quarters. Other than that, I think it is all in there. If you have specific questions, please ask. I'll be more than glad to help all I can.

[Striker2807]

Originally Posted by RawFedDogs

I did more than touch on it. I gave explicit instructions for the first several weeks. If you have trouble finding chicken backs, you can substitute chicken quarters. Other than that, I think it is all in there. If you have specific questions, please ask. I'll be more than glad to help all I can.

So I should be able to find all I need at say Walmart or other local grocery stores?

It seems that I might be able to switch sooner then I thought I am starting to feel more comfortable, confident, and eager to try this. I get the impression this might be a good thing since she is still a puppy (7 months) ,but she was recently diagnosed with inflammation of the intestines that was about two weeks ago and she seems to be fine now so you think it would it be fine to start her on this soon? It will be a few weeks because I will have to scout out some local grocery stores first for chicken backs and stuff.

[RawFedDogs]

Originally Posted by Striker2807

So I should be able to find all I need at say Walmart or other local grocery stores?

Yes, its not the ideal way but its the way to start. You will eventually want to buy most of your meat in bulk as it will be much cheaper that way. You should be able to get chicken quarters at walmart for around $.50/lb in 10lb bags. That will be 9 or 10 quarters. To buy in bulk you will need a freezer. You can usually find one cheap on craigslist.com. What size of dog are we talking about? I mean what size will it be when grown?

It seems that I might be able to switch sooner then I thought I am starting to feel more comfortable, confident, and eager to try this. I get the impression this might be a good thing since she is still a puppy (7 months) ,but she was recently diagnosed with inflammation of the intestines that was about two weeks ago and she seems to be fine now so you think it would it be fine to start her on this soon?

Sure. The inflamation was caused by kibble.

It will be a few weeks because I will have to scout out some local grocery stores first for chicken backs and stuff.

Backs will be the most difficult item for you to find. Many people don't feed backs because of that. You will probably have to get a store to special order a case for you. Ethnic markets are most likely to stock them if you have one of those near you. If you can't find backs, don't worry about it. You can use quarters instead.

[Striker2807]

Originally Posted by RawFedDogs

Yes, its not the ideal way but its the way to start. You will eventually want to buy most of your meat in bulk as it will be much cheaper that way. You should be able to get chicken quarters at walmart for around $.50/lb in 10lb bags. That will be 9 or 10 quarters. To buy in bulk you will need a freezer. You can usually find one cheap on craigslist.com. What size of dog are we talking about? I mean what size will it be when grown?

Right now at 7 months she is 50 lbs so she will probably be around 80 lbs full grown, but being a mix it really is hard to say.

Originally Posted by RawFedDogs

Sure. The inflamation was caused by kibble.

Doesn't surprise me even though she was on a decent kibble you never know what is in it. I am starting to believe there is no such thing as a decent kibble.

Originally Posted by RawFedDogs

Backs will be the most difficult item for you to find. Many people don't feed backs because of that. You will probably have to get a store to special order a case for you. Ethnic markets are most likely to stock them if you have one of those near you. If you can't find backs, don't worry about it. You can use quarters instead.

There is a health store near me not sure if that is what you mean by ethnic market.

[RawFedDogs]

Originally Posted by Striker2807

Doesn't surprise me even though she was on a decent kibble you never know what is in it. I am starting to believe there is no such thing as a decent kibble.

Hehe, you learn fast.

There is a health store near me not sure if that is what you mean by ethnic market.

I mean an oriental market or a mexican market or something like Wholefoods market. People of other cultures often eat stuff we don't. You wlll be more likely to find chicken backs there and you can get some cool organ stuff. Don't worry about organs right now. You will be able to find stuff like beef or pork lung or tongue. You might also find things like whole rabbits. Those will be great to feed later on.

[Striker2807]

Originally Posted by RawFedDogs

I mean an oriental market or a mexican market or something like Wholefoods market. People of other cultures often eat stuff we don't. You wlll be more likely to find chicken backs there and you can get some cool organ stuff. Don't worry about organs right now. You will be able to find stuff like beef or pork lung or tongue. You might also find things like whole rabbits. Those will be great to feed later on.

I will keep this in mind, but for now I am going to do what you said on your website and start with the chicken quarters for the first week.

On how much to feed can you try and help me and explain that? I read it on your website but I am a little confused about what you mean. Right now she is 50lbs and you say feed 10% of her weight, which would be 5 lbs, until it exceeds 2% or 3% of her ideal weight, which lets says it 80 lbs, so 3% of that is 24 lbs.

I am going to stop there because that is where I confused you can't possibly mean I have to feed her 5lbs of chicken quarters until I get up to 24 lbs. Then go by 2% or 3% of her weight at that time?

[RawFedDogs]

Originally Posted by Striker2807

I will keep this in mind, but for now I am going to do what you said on your website and start with the chicken quarters for the first week.

Cool, thats the thing to do.

On how much to feed can you try and help me and explain that? I read it on your website but I am a little confused about what you mean. Right now she is 50lbs and you say feed 10% of her weight, which would be 5 lbs, until it exceeds 2% or 3% of her ideal weight, which lets says it 80 lbs, so 3% of that is 24 lbs.

Nope, you made a math error. 2% of 80lbs is 1.6lbs. A quarter weighs around 1lb. 3% of 80lbs is 2.4lbs. So I suggest you feed a quarter in the morning and one in the evening. Remember this is only a starting point. If she starts losing weight, feed more ... if she gains too much weight, feed less. A thin puppy is healthier than a fat puppy. You want to see the last couple of ribs and a definate waist line behind the rib cage when viewed from above. You don't want to see the hip bone or spine. That should help you guage how she should look. Feed to get her to that point but begin with 2 quarters a day ... one in the morning and one in the evening.

I am going to stop there because that is where I confused you can't possibly mean I have to feed her 5lbs of chicken quarters until I get up to 24 lbs. Then go by 2% or 3% of her weight at that time?

Good thinking ... bad math.

[Striker2807]

Originally Posted by RawFedDogs

Nope, you made a math error. 2% of 80lbs is 1.6lbs. A quarter weighs around 1lb. 3% of 80lbs is 2.4lbs. So I suggest you feed a quarter in the morning and one in the evening. Remember this is only a starting point. If she starts losing weight, feed more ... if she gains too much weight, feed less. A thin puppy is healthier than a fat puppy. You want to see the last couple of ribs and a definate waist line behind the rib cage when viewed from above. You don't want to see the hip bone or spine. That should help you guage how she should look. Feed to get her to that point but begin with 2 quarters a day ... one in the morning and one in the evening.

Alright thanks for clearing that up!

Originally Posted by RawFedDogs

Good thinking ... bad math.

Hey it was 1:30 in the morning cut me a break! I know what I did I did 20% instead of 2% teaches me to do math at 1:30 in the morning..haha

What if the dog doesn't eat all that you give him? Just refreeze it for next time? Where do the bones come in? Are they in the meat you give him?

[BoxMeIn21]

Originally Posted by Striker2807

Also I know there is a lot raw feeders on this forum so does anyone else use the Prey Model Raw diet?

I do! I've been feeding it for about 3 years - sometimes I throw in a little homecooked or if I absolutely have to, I will feed a high quality grainless kibble. But, for the most part they eat raw meat, bones and offal and that's it.
Raw has been the answer for us. And it's really not as complicated as it might seem right now.

[RawFedDogs]

Originally Posted by BoxMeIn21

... sometimes I throw in a little homecooked or if I absolutely have to, I will feed a high quality grainless kibble.

Why in the world would you have to sometimes feed your dog inferior foods? Why would kibble even be in your house?

[Striker2807]

Originally Posted by BoxMeIn21

Raw has been the answer for us. And it's really not as complicated as it might seem right now.

Right now it is a little complicated, but it is the first diet that has excited me in awhile when it comes to feeding my dog.

I mean after all it is close to their natural diet so why wouldn't it be great for them?

[RawFedDogs]

Originally Posted by Striker2807

Right now it is a little complicated, but it is the first diet that has excited me in awhile when it comes to feeding my dog.

Hey Striker,
Its only complicated when you are on the outside looking in. Once you are feeding, you will be amazed at how simple it is. Go get some chicken quarters and start feeding them. Feed nothing but chicken quarters for 2 weeks. Thats simple, huh?

You have two weeks to decide what to feed next. You don't have to buy it until the day before you feed it. Then you will have another week or so to decidw what will be next, etc. There is plenty of time to make decisions as you go along. There is no need to rush anything as you will be feeding this for a long time. If it takes you 4 months to get a good variety going, NBD.

If you look at all the choices at once, heck yes, it's complicated. After you have been feeding raw for a while, you just reach in the freezer and what ever your hand lands on is what you will feed next meal. 3 nights ago, my dogs had chicken quarters. 2 nights ago it was turkey necks. Last n ight it was beef hear. Tonight it will be pork roast. Tomorrow I think it will feed the fish, beef heart, liver, egg mush I feed every so often. After that, who knows? It depends on what I pull out of the freezer. Sometimes I look in the freezer, see something and say, "well, I haven't fed that in a while, I think I'll feed it next." Or they might get quarters 3 or 4 nights in a row. There is just no set schedule or plan, just like in the wild. In the wild they eat whatever they run across next.

[Spicy1_VV]

Yes I too use the whole prey model diet. Dogs can't digest veggies therefore they get no nutritional value from them. Grains cause their body to overwork to break down and process them, some grains they also can't digest at all.