EVO and Phosphorus- company Reply

LittleMoonRabbit · 01-12-2008, 11:17 AM

I e-mailed Natura the other day about my concerns regarding the phosphorus levels in EVO. The reply was that yes, high levels of phosphorus can over work the kidneys, but that the levels of phosphorus in EVO is still within the recommended feeding range (though, at the higher end of that range). They also mentioned that phosphorus is needed for many cellular functions in the dog's body, and is an important nutrient. That being said... I still feel a little concerned. I know EVO is fairly new, but has anyone fed EVO long term... like since it's been out? Have you had blood tests done? Right now my little dog seems to be thriving on it... small poops, gorgeous coat, increased energy, good breath. But, I am afraid that this is just the short term, and 6 or 7 years down the road I'll be kicking myself because her kidneys will be over stressed and damaged. As everyone else here, I want what's best for my dog, and I feel so overwhelmed by so many options... and SUCH LITTLE LONG TERM RESEARCH. I am almost taking the approach at this point to vary her diet and try a range of foods, from higher protien to lower protien, in an attempt to SOMEHOW find a balance. But, that would make for an even pickier dog (she's picky enough now) and potential stomach problems. Comments? Ideas? Insight? Experience?

Ginny01OT · 01-12-2008, 12:27 PM

I have similar concerns. I was feeding my dog Timberwolf Organics but I am now switching to Nature's Variety Instinct Rabbit Meal formula which I will eventually rotate with the Duck/Turkey Meal formula. The protein and phosphorous levels are a lower than Evo's yet it is also a bio-coated grain free product--I like that there is ground bone and ground organ meat in it. We'll see.

mattmania843 · 01-12-2008, 03:52 PM

I feed regular Innova and now you have me concerned.. THe phosphorus level in Innova is a tad lower than EVO (its 1.1 or 1.0) According to something I just read adult dogs over 6 years old (my dog) should only get .5-.7 phosphorous, there is obviously more in the food than that, is this anything to be concerned about..?

Wilbur · 01-14-2008, 08:38 AM

I'm worried about all the phosphorus as well....I thought phosphorus amounts are OK as long as they are balanced with proper Calcium amounts....Now I think higher phosphorus levels are not good regardless of calcium balance....The only decent kibbles that I could find ( and if you know of others please post ) with lower phosphorus amounts are

California Natural 1.0 % calcium and 0.8 % phosphorus
Innova large breed 1.1 % calcium and 0.85 % phosphorus...

The Innova large breed has less sodium .21..........

Here is a site I found talking about Phosphorus and kidneys in dogs....

http://www.dogaware.com/kidney.html#table

'tasha · 01-14-2008, 09:59 AM

Thanks for starting this thread!!! I feed EVO. My vet lets me share her prices so that she can get it for her dogs too. My husband is going to the vet today to pick up our cat's ashes. I'm going to have him talk to her about this. My 8 yr old pom/chi mix is on it and now I'm concerned.

Pawper · 01-14-2008, 10:01 AM

My bro is a vet and I asked him the exact sem question before switching to EVO. He told me (and again please to each his own) not to worry. I have two large dogs and two small dogs and all are on EVO. He said that EVO is within the recommended amount of phosphoruos and would be fine in dogs that do not have a history of kidney problems within the breed (like Schnauzers for example).....

He did say that you should have your dogs levels checked annually regardless of what food and what levels are within it because each dog can react to each food in a different manner, so by having levels and body functions checked annually is just a good idea no matter what food your baby is on. My pups are THRIVING on EVO, but my mothers pug (and I have one as well on the same food) did not do well on it, but she has a range of health problems (BYB rescue).

IMO it is what works best with your own dog, and that can only be determined by you and the health of your pet, and a good vet (which are hard to find!!)

Each food is going to have more or less of something because each recipe has to be varied or we would have no options. When you gain something you lose something it seems.....the middle road is so elusive sometimes!!

Wilbur · 01-14-2008, 11:17 AM

here is some more info

http://www.raingoddess.com/dogfood/phos.html

LittleMoonRabbit · 01-14-2008, 11:32 AM

Wilbur, thanks so much for this link. I feel a little better now. Per serving, I guess Innova Dog (which is EVO, right?) actually falls in the middle somewhere when properly calculated. I feel as though I can breathe a little easier... I was thinking that maybe I was slowly killing my dog without knowing it. However, I think I will have her blood levels checked annually... I think it's a good idea. As long as I can convince my Hubby of that anyways. He's always so outraged at vet bill prices...

Wilbur · 01-14-2008, 11:42 AM

LittleMoonRabbit:::

No No
Innova is not Evo...........They are made by the same company, but have different ingredients and analysis....There are many diffrent Evo and Innova products.........

Here is the link;;;;

http://www.naturapet.com/brands/healthwise.asp

Good luck

LittleMoonRabbit · 01-14-2008, 11:47 AM

See, I have thought I read somewhere that EVO was being changed to DOG (as the name), or vice versa, and that the original Innova was just going to stay "Innova" wihtout anything after it. I guess that was wrong.

mattmania843 · 01-14-2008, 02:39 PM

Is regular Innova which is 1.0 Phosphorous alright, its higher than that site posted, my dog is 7 though and older dogs are suppose to get less..

LittleMoonRabbit · 01-15-2008, 03:36 PM

New Updates:

I decided to call my vet today, to get some info on a kidney function blood panel my dog had done a few months ago... phosphorus was slightly elevated then... and that was before she was on EVO. I am having him call me back tomorrow, and I'm going to discuss with him this whole phosphorus thing and her kidney function and see what he says. From what I can tell, these vets seem "up" on the new and better foods out there (instead of selling science diet at the door, they sell Eagle Pack, and he was the one who told me to supplement my dog's food with fish oil to help with her allergies... allergies that have since cleared up on EVO). So, I will report on what he has to say when he gets back to me. I had talked to another vet from the in-store petsmart practice (was just around, so I figured I would just put it out there), and he told me it was high protien alone that causes kidney problems. He should do a little reading, eh? Wasn't exactly going to tell him those tests were done on rats, and that phosphorus seems to be the actual culprit.

Wilbur · 01-15-2008, 04:14 PM

LittleMoonRabbit..
Hi
I went through about 20 different dog food web sites to find a good food that was not high in phosphorus.....Some of the Innova foods were .8% and .9% phosphorus.....and if we add cooked meat or fish oe eggs we are adding even more phosphorus....

Eager to hear what your vet thinks...All my vet did was look up the ranges from the AAFCO....Some of the ranges of the AAFCO are absurd....
Thanks

Abbysdad · 01-15-2008, 08:00 PM

My cat that is almost 2 eats Innova Evo. Doing super on it. I had to put my 17 year old down due to renal failure. The food he had to eat was low in protein and phosporus. Mostly protein. It can be hard on kidneys. I had to do this for 4 years. i do worry about the protein, phosporus, ash and so on. But, the more I read about different dog/cat foods there is something wrong with all of them. There is not one kibble that comes up perfict. If one was we would not be bring this topic up. I read, I listen then i come up with my own opinion. Like I said, I feed my purebred ragdoll cat Innova Evo. Abby eats Blue Buffalo, but might go to Innova when she gets older. Who knows! One of these days I might go to something else that I feel is better.

LittleMoonRabbit · 01-18-2008, 11:17 AM

Finally got in touch with the vet, and even though it wasn't a very thorough reply, it was good enough for what I was looking for. My doctor just said that my dog should be just fine on a high protien diet because she is young, and growing, and higher blood phosphorus levels can be attributed to the body saving up phosphorus for bone and cell growth. He said her kidneys are healthy, and as long as they are healthy, she should have no problem staying on the grain free foods.