[dusty&lulusmom]

I am still considering and researching the "raw diet". I am wondering if anyone uses any of the prepackaged raw diets, such as Bravo, Primal, Butch, etc. If so what do you use or recommend and why? If you do use any of these do you purchase burgers or nuggets? How much does a dog weighing about 20lbs. need for a day? The diets seem expensive but I guess it depends on how much a dog is consuming in a day. Any info would be appreciated. Thanks.

[briteday]

I hqaven't used any of the prepared foods because they seem very expensive even for my little dogs. However I know there are folks on the forum who have used the Nature Variety (?) medallions. I have considered those if we ever have to leave the dogs with someone.

You need to be feeding (to start, and then adjust) 2-3% of your dog's weight per day, divided into 2 meals preferably. A good starting point for a dog of 20 lbs. , assuming it's an adult, is 8 oz per day (two 4 oz meals). Puppies can require up to 10%+ per day for proper growth.

[dusty&lulusmom]

I am feeding adult dogs...that seems like such a small amount of food. I guess it is more about quality than quantity. The two 4 oz meals per day is meat only...or do you add any other foods. If you did add other foods such as yogurt, pumpkin, etc. would you recommend reducing the 8 oz of meat or adding this in addition to the 8 ounces?

[briteday]

It depends on how active your dogs are. I sometimes (maybe once / month on each) add yogurt, cottage cheese, dried out chesse from the meat drawer (been hanging around a bit too long but not moldy), scrambled, boiled, or raw egg...I only give ~ 1 teaspoon to my small dogs (8-11 pounds each) and I don't decrease their other food. However there are times when I have a whole carton of cottage cheese that is going to expire or more than just bits of cheese, or someone at breakfast that didn't eat any of their eggs. Then I consider any amount that resembles their regular ration as a meal by itself. Some dogs can switch around on food like this, some can't. My dogs tend to have cast iron guts. On the other hand, a bit too much salmon oil can put one of my paps into cannon butt for days. So it seems that every dog has their triggers. You just have to try it and see.

I do understand where it appears that 4 oz at a meal is a very small amount. My biggest dog gets 1-3/4 oz per meal. But since they are able to utilize everything they are eating, there is no need to add any filler material to make it look like more. Remember dog food is sold by weight so the more you feed the more you have to buy. Watch your dogs, feel the ribs to see if he is too heavy, too thin, or just right. I take my dogs monthly to the scale in the front of the vet section at Petsmart and weigh them. And I keep track of it in a notebook so I can see if there are any major changes.

Raw feeding costs me no more than high quality kibble did. But it takes a while to find sources and then learn how to stock up on certain items when you see them on sale. And remember that your dogs are going to need a balance of muscle meat, bones, organs, and heart meat to create a balanced diet. I also throw in a fish meal once every week for the omega oils they contain. Just don't feed trout, salmon, or most other fish from the Pacific Northwest as they carry a parasite that only affects the canid (dog) species. So human grade fish is not tested for it since humans aren't impacted by this microscopic parasite. But to dogs it can be deadly. I use tilapia, canned mackeral, or Atlantic cold water fish.

[dusty&lulusmom]

Thanks for sharing all this info, it is very helpful. I hope you don't mind but I still have a few more questions. First of all I am feeding three dogs, each weighs in around 20lbs. One of the reasons I was considering using a "pre-packaged raw diet" is because I am so afraid of the meat I would be getting from the stores...right now I cook the life out of everything because I don't trust the "meat regulators". Could it be contaminated with a bacteria...parasite...etc. I have read alot that says not to worry about this with the way dogs digest but I still am not feeling secure with this. I also don't think I could easily buy or find organic meats...do you use organic, free range..etc or are you buying right out of the meat case from the local stores...before the meat is given to the dogs do you cut it up small or grind it. How often do you give bones...what kinds of bones...mostly chicken...like thighs with no skins...are they able to eat this easily and quickly...I don't want this to be taken out of the bowl and find them chewing on it in another room..Lastly, I am considering switching my dogs to a raw diet (cold turkey) the week of Christmas. I am home this entire week so I can keep a close eye, and I will also use up my frozen supply of homecooked food and kibble by then..I am wondering is there something I should do a week prior to prepare for the transition. I have heard about giving probiotics.Where do I find probiotics...is there a product you recommend I purchase and begin giving to prepare the gut for the transition? I told you I still had lots of questions, sorry. Thanks.

[briteday]

Remember my dogs seem to have cast iron guts so take this with a grain of salt...

Stock up on chickens or turkeys beforehand. It is the easiest protein to begin with, causes the least amount of problems. My two older dogs both have dental issues so I'm not comfortable with them chewing bones. So I buy whole chickens, a package (1-2 lbs) of gizzards, and 1 lb of chicken liver. I take it to my local university ag dept (you could also try an independent butcher) and they throw the who shebang down the grinder and return it to me in a 5 gal bucket. I re-package it into margarine containers or such (about enough for two days with my little guys, about 4 oz per day for all of them) and put it in the freezer. If you're sqeamish about bones, then grind them until you get to a comfort zone. If your dogs have healthy teeth and grind their food well then just quarter the chickens and freeze in baggies, enough for a day. That is their morning meal every day. Then I purchase tongue, heart, beef liver, and whatever muscle meats are cheap that month, also at the ag farm. But I have been known to scavenge the mark down stuff if I'm at the grocery store first thing in the morning. I just make sure to freeze it or feed it immediately. Those are my evening meals.

So in the end my meals look like this...every morning is ground whole poultry. Evenings are 1 fish, and 6 meat meals with a bit of organ, liver, heart, tripe (up to you, there are canned tripes that work well if you choose). My dogs look forward to Sunday afternoons when I put them in an ex-pen on the patio and give each one a long back rib bone with all the beef meat still on it. They will work on them for about 2 hours and once they have stripped the meat they are allowed to have it in the house for the rest of the week as a recreational bone.

I feed the morning meal of ground meat in the house during the winter. The evening meal of hunks of meat and organs is fed outside before it gets dark. In the summer I give them the meat outside in the cool of the morning and let them stay indoors in the hot afternoon to eat their ground meal. If I need to feed them inside due to weather I gate off the laundry room and let them eat in there. Then I just quickly mop up with some wet wipes since it's only about 8' x 8'.

But to start, I would give bone-in poultry (maybe you can pick up on some really cheap turkey this month, ask the grocery butcher to saw it into 6 or 8 pieces while it's still frozen, but chicken is good too. This is breakfast. Then for dinner I would stick with the same protein source for a while, so then dinner will be either chicken or turkey breasts, thigh meat, ... If they are getting enough bones in the morning I think you can go just meat in the evening. If the birds come with the giblets (organs) all the better. Let the dogs have a bit of organs with each meal.

White, chalky looking stool is a sign of too much bone. Runny stools can be from too much meat (after the initial break in period).

If you get to two weeks or so and everything is going well (expect a little bit of the runs, a bit of up-chucking, general gi ickies for the first month or so) then you can add in a pork muscle meat or some beef. Just go slow. It takes them a while to develop the digestive enzymes to metabolize raw food vs cooked. It's a whole different chemical process in the gut. And don't worry about getting all the nutrients in the first month or two. It takes time to build up to the balanced diet. So after things are going good, then just like kids, start introducing new proteins every 3-5 days. If they don't have issues, then keep going. If something seems to give them the runs, back off and mix in gradually with some poultry for a while. Just keep going and come here with your questions as you are going through the process.

The end goal is to be feeding some bony meat as well as enough muscle meats and organs to balance the phosphorus in the meat with the calcium in the bones at a 2:1 ratio. You are also hoping to get small bits of organ, liver, heart into the meals so that you pick up on vitamins A and D. Eventually you can investigate whether you want to add fish and /or flax oil to get some omega 3 and 6 oils in the diet. But don't think this will all happen in the first month. However, this will give you a chance to watch for things on sale and stock up. Don't go overboard because you may run into something they can't do well with. But my goal is to stay under $1/lb for anything I buy.

Good luck and keep coming here with questions. There are also a bunch of links in the stickies on the food sub-forum to help with your research. Each of us feeds a bit differently so my way is just one example.

[Ginny01OT]

I feed my dog Nature's Variety Prairie raw food, 8 oz in the AM and 8 oz in the PM---he is thriving--had complete blood work done recently and everything perfect--may be a little costly but well worth it!!!

[melvs]

Originally Posted by Ginny01OT

I feed my dog Nature's Variety Prairie raw food, 8 oz in the AM and 8 oz in the PM---he is thriving--had complete blood work done recently and everything perfect--may be a little costly but well worth it!!!

Ginny- I'm researching Nature's Variety raw medallions for my 6 mo old cocker/poodle mix. I don't have any good food suppliers in my area, so I mostly buy my dog's food online. Do you have any good places that you recommend buying from? I've read lots of good comments about their raw foods. Sounds like it's worked very well for your doggy, too.

[cityDog]

I'm a do-it-yourself raw feeder, but have used Nature's Variety and Bravo in the past. (For my cats, as they would just be too expensive to use for my 90lb GSD) I found Bravo to be the most economical. You can check out their website for a distributor in your area:

http://www.bravorawdiet.com/bravoretailers.html

I recently ordered Monica Segal's book OPTIMAL NUTRITION - RAW AND COOKED CANINE DIETS, as well as her "Raw Food Recipes" booklet. I've been feeding raw for over 7 years. My dog is thriving and his bloodwork is always normal, but I'd just like to see what a raw menu that meets the National Research Council's recommended allowances looks like. This would be the way to go if you'd like to save $ and feel 100% confident that you're feeding a complete and balanced diet.

http://www.monicasegal.com/catalog/writings.php