[mrsd211]

The guy from 20/20, John Stossel wrote a book about myths and stuff. He mentions dog food, what he says makes sense if you think about it... He refers to the 'human grade' dog foods, the 'premium' foods, the 'better' foods and so on. And he also talks about by-products and how we think they are so bad for or pets, but by-products are the parts that dogs would eat in nature, lungs, intestines, and gullets. Now putting our human minds aside, doesn't what he says, make a bit of sense? I'm not going to quote the whole section, (it's on page 147-148, in case any of you are interasted), but he really puts his words together nicely. I still feed my dogs what I have been told is good for them, no by-products, but maybe they aren't so bad after all...? What do any of you think and have any of you read that book? It's called Myths, Lies, and Downright Stupidity

[flip195]

this place is a joke

[mrsd211]

I knew about corn not being good, but after reading what by-products actually are, are they really that bad? I feed my dog Pro Plan Select and my puppy gets a mix of Nutro Max Puppy, (that's what the breeder was feeding her) and Castor & Pollux Natural Ultra Mix. BTW, how long does dog food last? I still have Nutro Ultra Puppy from my 1 year old. Does the experation date count as before you open the bag, or does it spoil quicker once it's open?

[ritabooker]

Chicken by-products can include feet, heads, feathers, intestines or just about anything that is a rendered material.

If your dog ate these things they may not hurt him, but I would rather my dog get the parts and ingredients that give her more nutrition, so she will be healthy.

[mrsd211]

That makes sense, how gross!

[ritabooker]

The feet part reminds me...one of my poor geese was eaten by a coyote...he jumped a 5 foot fence and helped himself. The only parts he left behind were the feet and beak.

P.S. The geese are now enclosed in an area with a roof on it.

[briteday]

My problem with by products is that there are some ok ones and some not so ok ones. But according to the label you don't know what % of beaks and feathers vs gullets and innards are used. What if it's 90% junk by-products?

As for premium foods that use quality ingredients, the only problem I have there is that the product has to be cooked at high temperatures to make the kibble. Most food, meat and vegetables, lose a significant amount of nutrients when cooked. Then they have to be added back in as a synthetic form. I prefer to stay as close to nature as possible.

Less than high quality food is going to have a lot of grain products and non-useful ingredients in the recipe. Dogs don't need carbs. They are added as cheap filler and to aid the manufacturing process.

I choose to feed raw because I can control what goes in, quality, no hormone fed meat products/by-products, no grains, no cooking, ... and my dogs have never been healthier or more energetic. One dog is older and we spent 5 years trying to find a food that didn't make her itch. She hasn't itched once on the same proteins that gave her problems in kibble. It has to be the preservatives or something in the processing. The younger one was a picky eater on kibble, sometimes going 3 meals without touching her food. Now she rarely has a day that she doesn't wait at the door for her food. (sometimes she would still rather chase the squirrel first!) The cat is a bit older and was attached to a kibble diet She is proving more difficult to transition, requiring some vitamin supplements to replace the organ meat that she still refuses to eat. But she's coming around slowly too. Yard cleanup for the dogs is a microscopic hunt...ok, I have two small dogs! But still, I used to clean their area (10' x 10') every other day. I can now go a week and have to look really hard! And now that I have my resources lined up, feeding raw is no more expensive than feeding quality kibble.

You should use a bag of kibble as quickly as possible. Although they have preservatives added, grains become moldy, and essential oils (omegas, etc) do not survive well in hot weather transport and storage. When I fed kibble if a bag wasn't finished within 30 days I donated it to a shelter that routinely begged for food donations. Better something than nothing. But I ended up spending more money on smaller bags, and shopping more often. With raw I can buy all my food monthly from a co-op, re-package it into 3-4 day portions, and freeze the whole month's worth. It takes one shelf in my upright freezer for a whole month.

I usually like the John Stossel stories. But I think he's a little misguided on this one.

[RonE]

I like John Stossel (and I have that book.) I like my vet, too.

But I won't take dog-food advice from either one.

[borzoimom]

Originally Posted by ritabooker

Chicken by-products can include feet, heads, feathers, intestines or just about anything that is a rendered material.

If your dog ate these things they may not hurt him, but I would rather my dog get the parts and ingredients that give her more nutrition, so she will be healthy.

So true. Unless the by-product is named ( like Bil Jac it says " chicken organ meat"), the list could be anything- including cancerious tumors..

[bluesbarby]

Years ago when I was in college I worked for a company during the summer on an assembly line where we did nothing but de-beak chickens. The beaks were tossed.

[RonE]

I always thought those beaks ended up in the meatloaf from college food services.

"Chicken debeaker" will probably look better on the resume than some of the summer college jobs around here: "Dog park poop-bucket emptier."

[kendallj]

I agree... we all want our dogs to eat as natural as possible but if you actually let your dog eat a recently killed whole animal (like say a rabbit) you will notice that pretty much EVERYTHING is gone including the bones... there are coyotes and wolves on my parents property where I grew up and we would find remains all the time in our yard.. and all that was left was pieces of bones... they eat it all.. I even saw a coyote eat a chicken... he ate it all... beak and feet... so honestly are the really that bad if they are eaten in the wild??? I personally don't feed my dog by products.. well actually yes I do.. .I give her bones.. that's a by product... bone meal actually has more protein in it than straight meat does (I learned that in a meat class) I just bought some bags of food and let her choose which one she liked and that's what I go with... its Evo if you want to know. and not to change the subect but what are peoples takes on the whole "you feed your dog raw they will become more aggressive toward other animals" thing... I heard it on the radio somewhere... but really what is the whole thing with by products.. all they are are things humans won't eat that animals will( I learned that in my meat calss too)... they are all packed with some kind of nutrients if not more so than the meat itself.. I know organs are (again I learned this in a meat class)... I dunno.. just my opinion

[RonE]

Our domestic dogs are pretty far removed from their wild cousins.

[Inga]

I know animals in the wild will eat almost anything. That is out of necessity. When animal in the wild have a large abundance of food. They pick and chose. When food is harder to come by they eat what they can. So far my dogs get kibble and some raw meats. I am looking further into the benefits of all raw. I have to determine if it is something I can do. I feed several large dogs

[ToysHaveMyHeart]

I wouldn't mind if my dogs ate "by-products", the problem comes in how it is proportioned in the food, if it is consistant, and if it is labeled correctly ("animal by-product" would be an example of a major no no). Not only do most of the foods that have by-product in them not fit the specifications that I would approve of, but these types of foods usually contain all sorts of low quality/filler ingredients anyway. I really wouldn't mind a high quality food that contained by-products, but I can imagine that these foods are difficult to find.

[redox]

Adding to what has been said already about the content of unnamed by-products, another problem I have with them is the processing of said by-products. Who knows how long the by-products have gone unrefrigerated or been left in unsanitary conditions. It's not like human grade meat processing, which even then isn't the best conditions for preventing the growth of nasties.

If instead of listing "chicken by-products", a food listed "chicken heart", "chicken lung", "chicken liver", etc. then sure, I'd have no problem using that food (though I'd still be a little cautious about the processing procedures). After all, many of the organ meats are more nutritious than the muscle meat. Just because it sounds gross to you or me doesn't mean our dogs wouldn't like it . In my experience though, you won't see listed organ meats in a quality food. I don't know why that is. I imagine there are many reasons though.

[Wimble Woof]

See i actually feed chicken feet to my dogs as treats, sure the by-products are alright for them, but its not the top ingredients to their food.
I prefer to see named meats, and lots of them as apposed to by products.
See the thing is,
for example the dog food label says
" Chicken, chicken by product, turkey, turkey by product...."
Sure it may seem alright, BUT.
The named meats are with their water content, so once that is removed ( water) the meats actually would move further down the list.
Example
"Chicken by product, turkey by product, chicken, turkey...." however they may actually move a bit further than that.
Labels can be VERY misleading, and one really must take a second or two and think to themselves, "Really?" and then think logically.
Sure they may have put majority chicken meat ( by mass) in the mix but once its dried up, as kibble is, the amount of chicken by mass has reduced.

Hope that sort of makes sence.