Taping dogs ears......

NRB · 11-08-2009, 09:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sizzledog

Y
As for the ears - are you having problems keeping the ear close to the head, or is the ear moving upwards as well? A

Yes having hard time keeping ears close to the head AND having 1 fold in the ear. They fold in the middle lengthwise and create a rose ear.

sizzledog · 11-08-2009, 10:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NRB

Sizzledogg, I created an album on this forum site. Click on my name NRB. Select Go to View public profile. There you will find an album called ears.
I tried to put images up in chronological order but it didn't work. So the order is this:

Pic 1a 10-2-09 ears up (added later)
Pic 1 10-29-09 ears untaped and looking great!
Pic 2 10-25-09 profile pic ears taped
Pic 3 flying nun ears taken 8-27 so right after I took off breeders tape job
Pic 4 8-22-09 Breeders tape job and pups first day with us
pic 5 Flying ears on 9-7-09
Pic 6 may tape job on Sept 8th

AHA! Perfect - see the flying nun photo? The ear on the left side of the photo is flying up and out, and the ear on the right side of the photo is flying out only.

Based on these photos - I think you need to set that centerfold - the last link I provided. On the ear that's flying a bit higher, I'd put the tape for the centerfold a bit higher than the other ear. If the ears don't hang low enough due to the centerfold (they may fall into place themselves) - add the "chinstrap" as well.

To help the cartilage, give 2000mg of Vitamin C daily. 1000mg in the morning with food, 1000mg in the evening with food. If the ears aren't taped, don't give the VitC. Since this ear taping method isn't as invasive as cropped ear taping, you can probably leave the ears taped all the time... do a quick ear cleaning between tapings, but I'd try this for awhile, see what comes of it.

You may end up with flyaway ears after all your effort, but you might be surprised with perfect ears. Time will tell.

bfoster · 11-09-2009, 11:08 AM

I think whether you glue or tape- you have to be consistent and keep them in place until they are t least 7-8 months old. Otherwise you might wake up one day and find them sticking straight up.

NRB · 11-09-2009, 06:43 PM

Thanks Sizzledog, I've tried the center fold taping method today and was pleased with the outcome. I like it because the dog can use her ears and they are open and allowed to breath. I had the tape on for a good 6 hrs before it came off after an hour hard play with another dog and an hour running through the underbrush out at the barn. I'll need to carry tape and scissors in the car! This dog had more hair on her ears than a Boxer and that makes the taping challenging. But she sees the groomer in 2 days and the hair on her head and ears will be shorter after.

Thanks bfoster for the input. Makes me feel like I was throwing in the towel too soon. I can be more consistant, esp with the centerfold method. The right ear really does want to stick up sometimes. (cure Schnauzer in your pic!)

NRB · 11-12-2009, 08:26 PM

I reapplied tape using the Boxer centerfold technique and 3 days later the ears were just as fly away and up as ever. But I didn't do the vita c suppliment. I was surprised to see the tape job not working at all, when it had been successful for the first half day! I'm so fustrated. I've left the tape off for a whole day now, there was some redness on the skin on the underside of the ear, so I wanted to give the skin a chance to rest. I'm about to throw in the towel. Her ears are smaller than a boxers and very very hairy, so it was hard to tape right. I don't understand why it worked for the first try (half a day) but not for the second try (3 days)

Graco22 · 11-12-2009, 08:39 PM

Correct me if I'm wrong, Sizzle, but I don't think you are going to see results so quickly. The cartilage has to start hardening in the postion they are taped in...and that won't happen in a matter of a day or two. You have to just keep taping them, keep them taped, and not worry about what they look like untaped. I think leaving them untaped for a full day is too long when they are showing signs of doing anything BUT what you want them to do. Consistancy, consistancy. I know its frustrating...but hang in there. You are looking at months of this, and it will get easier as you get more adept at taping, and get that hair off her ears.

It will be worth it.

NRB · 11-12-2009, 09:25 PM

Ok Graco22 but I've always seen results after say 10 min of taping, if I take the tape off then the ears will lie correctly and then move. Which was why the second time I taped with a centerfold I was surprised that they were not correct even for a second when I took the tape off. I mean why would it work for half day then not for a 3 day session? I understand the need to keep the tape on, the first time the tape fell off in the field so to speak and the second time I took it off to see if I had taped right.

sizzledog · 11-12-2009, 09:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Graco22

Correct me if I'm wrong, Sizzle, but I don't think you are going to see results so quickly. The cartilage has to start hardening in the postion they are taped in...and that won't happen in a matter of a day or two. You have to just keep taping them, keep them taped, and not worry about what they look like untaped. I think leaving them untaped for a full day is too long when they are showing signs of doing anything BUT what you want them to do. Consistancy, consistancy. I know its frustrating...but hang in there. You are looking at months of this, and it will get easier as you get more adept at taping, and get that hair off her ears.

It will be worth it.

You're 100% right - results take time, lots of time - you can't expect progress in only a few days.

We tape cropped ears for months... months. There's a puppy I've been taping for about 3 months now, and her ears can still only be down a few days before they start to sag. She's still got a few more months of posting to go... yes it's frustrating, but it's what has to be done.

A friend of mine has a cousin to my Kaylee who is about 7-8 months old. We thought his ears were done, but tonight they're back in lightweight posts. They're not done yet. Yes we're disappointed, but the ears had to go back up.

So I know frustrated you are, how hopeless it may seem... but try to keep at it, for your dog's sake.

Graco22 · 11-12-2009, 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NRB

Ok Graco22 but I've always seen results after say 10 min of taping, if I take the tape off then the ears will lie correctly and then move. Which was why the second time I taped with a centerfold I was surprised that they were not correct even for a second when I took the tape off. I mean why would it work for half day then not for a 3 day session? I understand the need to keep the tape on, the first time the tape fell off in the field so to speak and the second time I took it off to see if I had taped right.

I can only guess that as the cartilage is forming and hardening, you may see a result one day, and not the next, because it is changing and forming. Think of it like a cropped ear...it takes a long time to get that cartilage hardened and the ear UP when it wants to lay down...same thing..your dog's ears are wanting to fly out/up, etc...and its going to take along time of taping to get them trained while the cartilate hardens. The cartilage won't harden in a few days..months. I hope you'll hang in there..you will be SO happy with the results once its all over. A few months is a short time compared with years of your dog's life to enjoy looking at her beautiful ears.

bfoster · 11-13-2009, 09:45 AM

If you decide to try glue- there is a brand called "sew easy" it is a sewing glue also used for puppy ear training. It can be left on for a little longer I think than the tape and is not irritating to the ear. Unlike tape- with the glue you want the hair on the ears to be a little longer- since you are actually gluing the hair on the ear to the hair on the cheek.
Think about trying that before you give up. You really do have to keep them down consistently for quite a while- at least until they are completely through teething.

NRB · 11-13-2009, 07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bfoster

You really do have to keep them down consistently for quite a while- at least until they are completely through teething.

See that's the thing. she's got 43 teeth last time I looked. Which was an odd number, I admit. But I think that she'd got a full set of adult teeth. I'll ask when I am at the vets next week for an unrelated issue. But if Sizzledog knows a dog who is 7-8mo.... is that dog still teething? Or does teething not have EVERY thing to do with it?

bfoster you also had mentioned taping until they were 7-8 mo. So maybe I don't understand when teething is done. I was thinking teeth were in at 5mo. Maybe they aren't all in until 8mo?? Maybe that's where my confusion is. I thought that all the teeth were in.

sizzledog · 11-13-2009, 08:03 PM

Yes, the 8 month old puppy is done teething.

There isn't really a set time when ears are done... they're done when they decide to be done. I know a fair number of dogs with poor cartilage whose ears aren't done until they're 16-18 months old.

Michiyo-Fir · 11-13-2009, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NRB

See that's the thing. she's got 43 teeth last time I looked. Which was an odd number, I admit. But I think that she'd got a full set of adult teeth. I'll ask when I am at the vets next week for an unrelated issue. But if Sizzledog knows a dog who is 7-8mo.... is that dog still teething? Or does teething not have EVERY thing to do with it?

bfoster you also had mentioned taping until they were 7-8 mo. So maybe I don't understand when teething is done. I was thinking teeth were in at 5mo. Maybe they aren't all in until 8mo?? Maybe that's where my confusion is. I thought that all the teeth were in.

I'm not sure how many teeth a dog's supposed to have but I know at 7.5 months Nia wasn't done teething.

That was when she got spayed and the vet found 10 baby teeth still in her mouth and had them removed so it is possible that an 8 month old puppy is still teething.

bfoster · 11-13-2009, 09:22 PM

I don't think that there is a set-in-stone time frame for a dog to be done teething. I also don't think that teething is the only factor in ear-set. Genetics is a biggie. Many breeders do not worry about breeding for good natural ears.
You have seen for yourself when you take the tape off the ears want to go up.I guess you have two choices-keep them taped (or glued) for awhile longer if it is really important to you or let them fly and accept your dog the way it is.
I don't care too much for the donkey-eared look either, but you really have to be diligent about keeping them down from an early age ( 8-10 weeks) consistently until you know they are not going to fly. I still think that age is closer to 7-8 months. Even then it doesn't always work. Just taping them occasionally is definitely not going to make a big difference in the long run. She is a cutie either way.
The dog in my avatar had good natural ears- but the one in the picture below I wasn't sure how they were going to be so I did glue them. Unfortunately I quit just a little too soon and you can see his left ear is just a tiny bit too high. Not a biggie but if I had just continued a little while longer...

NRB · 11-14-2009, 08:33 AM

I think I need to add something for clarity's sake. I do not expect the ears to remain in place after 3 days of taping. However, like the Marion Kidd article mentioned, even after 10 min of taping the ear will lie in the correct position for at least a second or a minute before turning. In other words the 3 day taping or the 10 min taping is a TEST to see if you are taping correctly in the first place. From there you can continue taping for months to get the correct set to STAY forever. (Also massage will allow you to get the ears into the right position but again they only stay that way for seconds or minutes not permanantly) Therefore I was thinking that when I taped the centerfold for 3 days and it never once sat correctly, then I was taping wrong. I suppose that the cartlidge could be in a weird state right now and that could explain why the ear wont set right in a short test of the centerfold taping. BUT what I really think is going on is that I can not do the centerfold correctly since this dog has smaller and much hairier ears than a Boxer. I don't have time to post pics now, but the ears are in that up and flyaway position when I have the centerfold tape on. the ears stick out and away from her head with the tape on.

If I'm going to be taping for the next few months then I need to know that I am taping correctly. I may try glue or go back to the chinstrap method.