[Graco22]

You did a great job! He has nice tight feet. Hopefully they will stay that way as he grows up. Your line is pretty good. I go a tad higher on a leggy dog with nice feet, to just above that back pad or so. As a general rule on "clean feet" you want to clip up to the wrist, or first bendable joint. It looks like you line is right there in the pic. Great job!

[Great Big Puppy]

poodleholic - That's a great suggestion for is top knot! Tail - OH WHAT A BAD SUBJECT!!! - I'll choose my words wisely, but whoever did the crop job on his tail, obviously has no idea what length a poodle tail should be!!!!!!!!! He has a tail the length of a boxer tail... UGG. If it weren't for his good nature and the fact that he is just so darn cute, I would have gone elsewhere, (and the fact that he was given to us, we didn't buy him). Anyway, I am still trying to decide if I should even attempt to do anything with his tail, with it being soooo short.

I think I must be crazy, because I am so excited to go home and give him his full groom tonight. He has his vet check up tomorrow, and of course he must look his best! lol

[Graco22]

I hate it when the person cropping tails has no clue! If his tail is truly that short, its going to be very hard to get a pom on it, and get it balanced with the rest of him. A German tail may suit him best in that respect, with a carrot tail or (gasp) a shaved tail. I don't like the shaved tail, but it is a variation of the German trim. You can still do whatever you wish with his topknot and ears, but here is a pic of a carrot tail in German trim with shaved ears too.

If you want to do the pom on the tail, its going to be hard, and you are going to need ALOT of hair at the end of the tail, and only the end of the tail. You will get more of a tassle than anything else. There is a V shaved in at the base of the tail up on the rump, and a band around the tail to just the bottom of the anus...his tail may not be longer than that? I will try to find pics of the V and such for you too.

Can't find a pic of V tail...I can get one taken for ya though.

PS. My dogs tail is nice and long, but short stubby tails tend to look good in this type of tail trim.

[Great Big Puppy]

Poodleholic Thanks for the links to the other sites. I have been looking them over, and especially drooling over those beautiful spoos!!!!


I tried the Horned Poodle thing with two bands above his eyes, one lasted overnight and the other lasted, an hour or so. lol I'll keep praying for fast hair growth!

Graco, any chance you have a picture of Cash, lifting up his ear so I could see how you the line looks from his ear down his neck, to his front? You have been a great help so far with my grooming!!!

On a side note, do you use a coat king very much? I am looking at it for my pyr and his unrluey coat! May I ask your opinion on it?

Thanks!!!! Have a Great Monday everyone!

[Graco22]

Originally Posted by Great Big Puppy

Poodleholic Thanks for the links to the other sites. I have been looking them over, and especially drooling over those beautiful spoos!!!!


I tried the Horned Poodle thing with two bands above his eyes, one lasted overnight and the other lasted, an hour or so. lol I'll keep praying for fast hair growth!

Graco, any chance you have a picture of Cash, lifting up his ear so I could see how you the line looks from his ear down his neck, to his front? You have been a great help so far with my grooming!!!

On a side note, do you use a coat king very much? I am looking at it for my pyr and his unrluey coat! May I ask your opinion on it?

Thanks!!!! Have a Great Monday everyone!

GBP, if your pup is digging or rubbing the bands out, just keep putting them in so he gets used to them now..or else he will be breaking off coat left and right. lol Its usually takes a few days to weeks for them to really get used to them. If the hair just isn't long enough yet..keep trying..it will get there.

I took some pics of Cash for you. You want to clip from outside corner of eye to the very back of the ear. All that hair around the ear canal can be cleaned out too. I usually use a #30, 40 or 50 blade. (I am loving my new 50 blade..btw..but may be too much for a sensitive dog.) When making the V down the throat, you will go from the back of the ear, down the neck, meeting in a V. Where you place the V depends on the individual dog. If the dog is ewe necked, place it high..about 3 finger widths or so above the breastbone. If the dog has a nice neck, go one finger above breastbone. If the dog has a short or fat neck, make it a narrow V..a nice long neck, show it off by making the V wide down the neck. The technicalities above may not interest you much now..lol, as they are little things..but in the future when you are more experienced with grooming him, they can make a good groom look stellar, those little things. And sorry the pics aren't great..It was a week ago that I did his clipperwork, and he grows like a weed...so its hard to see since its all white now. And don't mind the longer hair on the outside of the V..its WAY too long..he hasnt had a proper groom in awhile..LOL Like the shoe makers kids..my dogs are always last.

Ah the Coat King. I have a love/hate relationship with that tool. I love the way it can debulk, remove thick undercoat, and make getting a comb thru the coat so much easier..I hate the way it also cuts guard hairs, and damaged the outer coat, making the dog look terrible as the undercoat grows back. I rarely use it on anything anymore, but will now and then on breeds like pyrn, newfys, shelties, collies, etc. Mostly on pants and ruffs..though I like my debulking thinners better most the time in those areas. I have used it on a dog, all over, and LOVE the immediate results. The coat lays nice, its much thinner, easy to comb..but when the undercoat starts growing back, it makes all those broken guard hairs stick up and out and looks terrible. The duller the tool, the better, as it will cut less and pull more undercoat. If you want to try it on your pyrn, and it damages the coat, no worries, it WILL come back just fine in time. And heck, you may love the results..LOL I would recommend the smaller one though, NOT the big or medium ones..I think its an 8 tooth? And I like the Oster rakes better than the original Mars Coat King. The big ones are too wide for long thick coats like a pyrn, and just get caught and end up cutting all the coat..The small one takes longer, but does less damage. And only use it on a freshly bathed, HV dried, brushed and combed out dog. The less tangles you get, the less hair it will cut. You can use it as much or as little as you like..it will pretty much just keep pulling coat, and you can make bald spots if you keep at it in the same spot too much. Make sure to pull the skin TIGHT too..to ensure you don't cut a skin fold. If you do it, let us know how you like the results. I have a newfy owner who just LOVES her girl when I spend 45 minutes on her with the tool. She is a really thick newf, and this helps her to maintain her at home between groomings better...and she is also one of those newfs with all that light colored dead looking "spay" coat...the coat king gets all that out and makes her color look really nice. I just wish it didn't cut so much coat or it would be my favorite tool! LOL

[Graco22]

Oops....forgot the pics..lol Long day...

[Great Big Puppy]

Graco, your awesome! Thanks for the pics. Will be doing a full groom on Cash thsi Thursday or Friday.

I worked on my pyrX last night. Used my CC long T pin brush, slicker and comb. Slowely but surley. I think I'm going to try a coat king or the oster brand like you mentioned to help thin out his furnishings, just have to get one ordered!

Just for kicks, here is a picture of the Pyr X. His name is Pete. This is at the county fair just after my daughter won the Novice Handling class with him.

Thanks again!

[Graco22]

Aww! He's very pretty. Looks just like a pyrn, without that REALLY long coat..lol Nice! He does look really thick though. You have a high velocity dryer right? Have you used that one him? Dried him 100% with it? It will remove ALOT of that dead coat in there..especially if its a K9II..the lower end dryers won't work as well, but its alot easier than brushing it all out! LOL

Can't wait to see pics of your poodle when he's done. I will probably be grooming my boy on Thursday..my day off..lol I'll get a pic of the V in the tail for you then too if you still need one.

[Great Big Puppy]

Oh hey, I forgot to ask, have you ever used Chris Christensen's Thick N Thicker on a poodle? I forgot I have a can at home and was reading it, saying it helps straighten wavy coats (I assume if you use it when drying the coat straight). Would this help keep the curls away longer on the poodle?

[Graco22]

Originally Posted by Great Big Puppy

Oh hey, I forgot to ask, have you ever used Chris Christensen's Thick N Thicker on a poodle? I forgot I have a can at home and was reading it, saying it helps straighten wavy coats (I assume if you use it when drying the coat straight). Would this help keep the curls away longer on the poodle?

Its a great product, and I use it on many of my "show" dogs..It is good for a floppy coat..one that won't hold shape well. Its really most like a mild hairspray..makes the coat stick together and hold better shape when scissoring, etc. Not something you want to really leave in the coat more than a week..or matted it will be..It will have no help with straightening the coat and keeping it straighter longer..I usually use a human hair gel straightener, and have found some success with that..The best way to keep the coat straight longer though, is to fluff dry while brushing the coat straight. Takes along time on a standard!

[Great Big Puppy]

I wondered about that. I think I will pass on it - Wonder how long it's shelf life is - think I've had it about 2 years.. Well, I am bound and determined to have Cash looking 110% after his groom this week... We are going to relatives and he must look his best.....lol.... at least until he plays with "the cousins". The picture of the tail would be great, if you have time - it's the one thing I'm a little hesitant to do on him. I'll post a picture when I am done with him.


Yes, I use the HV dryer on the pyr. Mine is a Double K two speed, it does a fairly decent job, but I haven't done it in about 5 weeks, so it is time again! I like to do it outside, otherwise the basement is one big furr ball. At least when I dry him outside it just looks like a light snowfall...lol

[Graco22]

I will get some pics of the tail for you, maybe a quick video or something too may be easier to show you..depending on if I am alone grooming him, or have someone to video. I know you will do a great job on him. No worries even if you mess up..its hair and it grows back fast..LOL I kinda like it when I do a big goof..cause then its really in my head next time..kinda like "what NOT to do" LOL

I would think the shelf life on the Thick N Thicker would be long. You could always sell it on one of the grooming boards too if you just wanted to unload it. Its good stuff, on the right coats, but its effects are short lived also. Enough time to get thru a ring or few hours...after that..its matted central..LOL

[Graco22]

Well I groomed my guy this morning, and took some pics and some not great videos for you. I was alone..so the videos are so so, but easier to see than a picture. Here are the pics..the videos are on youtube..just search Graco2200 to find them.

The first pic is him before bath or anything. The second is after bath and dry with HV, then fluff dry. I am finding that I LOVE the spray, CC Ice on Ice, with an ounce of Day to Day Conditioner mixed into it. Really helps me get a comb thru the really thick cottony coats like my guys. The last pic is after..he is still growing out from a buzz earlier this summer..so I attempted to blend the bracelets into bell bottoms..LOL I need that hock hair for upcoming show, and its really hard to grow out..so I don't want to cut it off. And his neckline needs LOTS more hair still..and of course the ears..lol They were shaved in a German trim and are going to need to grow for quite awhile yet.

I'm going to post the pics, then add comments for the other pics..cause I can't remember which was which.

Ok, the next pic is of his V in the tail, with the tail pulled down, and I am standing right behind him. There you can see how far to shave out the tail. Most novices shave WAY too far out the tail. The clipper line should not go past the anus. So when the tail is in this position, you can line up where the anus meets the tail, and only clipper to that point..bottom of anus. I use a #30 in reverse for my tails. The next pic is how I set in the sides and get the top of the V started. Lift the tail up, and clip striaght down from where you started the band on the tail in the above pic. Let the clipped stop naturally where the tail meets the body. Do that on both sides, then pull the tail back down and finish shaping the V. (its an upside down V really.) It takes some practice to get good shape and neat crisp lines..and I still goof up all the time..lol The next pic is of the finished V. You can scissor around it to tidy, and the hair at the point of the V should be VERY short..maybe 1/4 inch at the longest...or else you will have the tail looking like its falling off the rear of the dog, and it should look like its set up on the back. Then when you go to do the pom on the tail, hold the tail up, and comb all the hair down. Scissor off any hair that falls below the clipper line on the tail. I hope this was helpful..the videos might be easier to get what I am saying? I have a hard time explaining things in writing.

[poodleholic]

I sometimes use Davis Fluff Out while drying, as that will keep the fluff fluffed and straight longer (and it's even held up when the Poodles have gone outside when it's misting - not real rain, just sort've um misting! lol).

[Great Big Puppy]

Well, I didn't get him groomed yesterday. Had to move horses around and only had time for the pyr. Not even a bath for him though... Taking my grooming stuff to the in-laws this weekend and hope to get them done there. I know I will get Cash done, but don't know that they would appreciate me using the HV dryer on the pyr at their house. Can't imagine why..lol... I have some ice on ice and may still have some day to day conditioner. I'll try that this time.. I've never used the Davis Fluff Out, but will check into it.

Graco22 - Is it a grooming show you are going to or do you show in confirmation?

On a side note...I taught Cash to Twirl (circle to the left) and Spin (circle to the right) for treats and he really has fun!

[Graco22]

Originally Posted by Great Big Puppy

Well, I didn't get him groomed yesterday. Had to move horses around and only had time for the pyr. Not even a bath for him though... Taking my grooming stuff to the in-laws this weekend and hope to get them done there. I know I will get Cash done, but don't know that they would appreciate me using the HV dryer on the pyr at their house. Can't imagine why..lol... I have some ice on ice and may still have some day to day conditioner. I'll try that this time.. I've never used the Davis Fluff Out, but will check into it.

Graco22 - Is it a grooming show you are going to or do you show in confirmation?

On a side note...I taught Cash to Twirl (circle to the left) and Spin (circle to the right) for treats and he really has fun!

Poodles are so smart! Love them. They learn things so fast. I bet his trick is really cute! Teach him to crawl too! People really get a kick out of that. lol

No, I don't show in conformation (though I have friends that do). My "shows" are strictly grooming shows where the grooming is judged. They comb thru the dogs and the finish is judged along with correct balance and breed profile. Placements can sometimes come down literally, to a few hairs..lol Its really fun though, and I as a groomer, I have learned WAY more by competing than I ever did or would have just staying in the shop all the time.

[Great Big Puppy]

Yeah, we are working on the crawl and some other things too. Compared to my pyr, he is a genius. OR My pyr is the genius (making me do all the work!)lol. I have to say, I think I'm hooked on poodles. I'll post some more pictures later this weekend. Have a happy and safe Labor Day Weekend!!!

[Great Big Puppy]

Originally Posted by poodleholic

You really won't need any wraps for awhile, just the bands. I use a little EQyss Survivor prior to brushing and banding. It's a great product (the light scent smells devine), and I wouldn't be without it during coat change! (Makes easy work of getting rid of any mats.) Lots of people use knitting needles to part and section the hair, but I bought the rattail comb at lainee ltd (pink, of course! heehee). It's very important to section the hair, so strays don't get pulled in, and break. The Survivor kept Lucia's hair from any damage, especially breakage right in the front above the eyes. I think her breeder and handler were pleasantly surprised at what a good job I did for a rank amateur! lol The band scissor lainee sells works well, too, although I used one of those cheapie letter opener things.

Black Poodle faces are hard to see in pics, but here's Lucia with our vet, Javier, who is just bonkers over this little girl in a Poodle suit! LOL He kept saying over and over what fabulous conformation she has, and how beautiful, and did I know this and that! Oh yes, I knew! LOL He says he's rarely ever seen a Standard Poodle even close to breed standard, so it was a thrill for him. ANyway, here she is with him:

Poodleholic - I just placed an order for some bands. I hope they help!!! I should have ordered sooner, but oh well. I have a question though. I am beginning to wonder if Cash is really black. His Mother is a silver and he has graying (silvering? lol) on his muzzel. He also has a slight brown tinge to the ends of his hair coat. I have heard that this can be the case with a silver or blue who is still in coat color change and since it is puppy coat. Any ideas???

[poodleholic]

Originally Posted by Great Big Puppy

Poodleholic - I just placed an order for some bands. I hope they help!!! I should have ordered sooner, but oh well. I have a question though. I am beginning to wonder if Cash is really black. His Mother is a silver and he has graying (silvering? lol) on his muzzel. He also has a slight brown tinge to the ends of his hair coat. I have heard that this can be the case with a silver or blue who is still in coat color change and since it is puppy coat. Any ideas???

The bands will help a lot.

The color thing - your guess, my dear, is as good as mine! lol

Maddy's a blue and her muzzle was always lighter when shaved. She had the brown tinge, too. She went through that for a good 3 yrs. I hated that brown. Lucia is inky black, and nothing BUT black! lol No wondering w/her.

[Graco22]

Chances are he's a blue..and will get more "blue" as he gets older. Like Poodle said, if they are a true black, there's no doubt..and true black is much more rare than blue..Though there are blacks that just fade out some, yet aren't "true" blues..just "bad" blacks..but as young as your pup is, showing lighter color already, I would guess he's blue. Its a pretty color though.