[4lilmunchkins]

Originally Posted by cshellenberger

Pam,
the spray I use is called Sprouts Spray for people and pets, works great and smells REALLY good becasue it contains lavender and Ceder oils as well as the Neem, I think Neem Tree Farm has a shampoo that is similar in composition d=so the neem smell isn't as dominant. Here's their pet products page, http://neemtreefarms.com/pet-care-c-125.html

I've never heard of this "Sprouts Spray"
It sounds really interesting and I'm going to order some.
Thank you for sharing this information!!

[HuggaPug]

I use a product called Flea Treats and it has worked for me for over a year. It is a B vitamin type liver flavored tablet that repels fleas and ticks. I live in South Carolina where fleas are immune to everything and my dogs go to the shop with me everyday. Believe me I was very surprised that they worked. The only drawback is you have to give them twice a day but its healthy and no chemicals. They have a website - I don't know if I can post it but its easy to figure out.

[BearCubby]

The sprout's spray sounds like it would smell really good, I may have to order some of that as well. When you use it though, does it dry up nice or does it stay a bit oily? I am just curious because of the cats in my house. I think if it dries up then I would be okay, but if it stays kinda oily then I might have to skip it.

[cshellenberger]

It's not oily at all and yes, it smells VERY good and clean.

[canteloupe]

You asked why more people don't use natural products, and I think that the reason is convenience. It does take a little more time to keep fleas and ticks away naturally, but I think it's worth it. The best approach is multi-dimensional. You can give your dog garlic supplements and put a little apple cider vinegar in her/his drinking water. Also use shampoos with neem oil, coupled with neem oil spray when s/he is going to be in an area with other dogs. You can also use essential oils, like a mix of cedar, citronella, eucalyptus, sage, lavender, rosemary, and tea tree -- just be sure to dilute it in a mild, skin safe oil like almond oil or jojoba oil, and don't use too much at a time. Just a little on ears and legs. Then if you get fleas you should have diatomaceous earth on hand, which you can sprinkle in the yard and directly on your carpets. Then vacuum up all the dead critters three days later. There are also some pet grade diatomaceous earth products that you can put directly on your pet.
The most important things, in my opinion, are the neem oil shampoo and the garlic supplements.
The best website I've found for these products is below.
http://search.onlynaturalpet.com/sea...f+Tick+Control

[cshellenberger]

A word of caution when using essential oils, they need to be diluted to 15% of the total ingredients and NO MORE, many can cause neurological damage if used on the body in greater amounts, and NEVER give them orally.

Also, out in the the yard, you can stop fleas and ticks from ever infesting your house by using nematodes. They are a biological control, microscopic worms that eat flea larvae. You can get them at nurseries or online.

[Raggs]

No, the neem smell doesn't stay with the dogs.. I love the shampoo, but I have to wear a mask when I use it.. Of course I am more sensitive to smells than other people. I can't use perfume or anything, because it makes me nauseous.

[Dinovite]

I use neem oil on my plants outside, but can't stand the smell. DogOsuds is an olive oil, coconut oil and jojoba based shampoo, with added therapeutic grade essential oils that are natural flea and tick deterrents. And, this will kill the fleas on the dog as well.

The two varieties that work best are the peppermint/tea tree or the essential oil blend variety.

I also use garlic and DE (use only food grade NEVER the pool filter stuff that can kill a dog!)

[nekomi]

Wow, I had no idea that so many people were using natural flea/tick prevention for their pets!! With 3 large dogs, Frontline Plus is really expensive, and I don't really like using a harsh pesticide every month. Do you guys find the natural remedies to be less expensive? (I have 3 60 - 80 lbs dogs; I imagine the cost savings are higher, the bigger the dog?)

We don't even have many ticks here at all - it's mostly the fleas that I worry about. We do use DE already in the chicken coop and around the barn, so sprinkling some around the kennel wouldn't be a big problem. We also planted mint, lemon balm, and thyme around the kennel to hopefully repel bugs too. And, all 3 are on Sentinel for heartworm, which sterilizes any fleas that bite the dog... so that ought to help too, right?

Is there any reason, besides convenience, that I would NOT want to switch from Frontline to natural methods? Are there any drawbacks that any of you have seen?

I'm 100% for organic, natural methods of pest control in all my other pursuits (farm and garden), so I guess I'm baffling myself here wondering why I didn't apply that thinking to my dogs.

[canteloupe]

Thank you, everyone, for all the great brand suggestions. I'm definitely going to buy some new things because I heard about them here.

Originally Posted by nekomi

Is there any reason, besides convenience, that I would NOT want to switch from Frontline to natural methods? Are there any drawbacks that any of you have seen?

I'm 100% for organic, natural methods of pest control in all my other pursuits (farm and garden), so I guess I'm baffling myself here wondering why I didn't apply that thinking to my dogs.

Convenience is the biggest reason. But I think the extra time and effort is worth it. And it's really not that much extra work. You just have to take a multi-dimensional approach for the best results.
The only other reason is that a lot of the natural methods are flea deterrents rather than killers. This means that it is possible to get fleas, and once you have them it's harder to get rid of them with all-natural methods.

But I must say that I've had very good results. On average I've had one outbreak a year. And there were some years when I didn't ever get fleas. I just keep frontline handy for when it happens. (I'm thinking about trying revolution next time instead, though.)

I think garlic is the biggest help (I use a ton of garlic treats, which my dogs have loved), along with the shampoos, diatomaceous earth (pet-grade, applied to carpets, pet beds, outside, and even directly on your pet), and copious amounts of essential oil spray blends (with neem if you don't mind the smell) for whenever your dog is going to be around other dogs. Plus cshellenberger recommended nematodes, which I looked into and they sound really great. I also like using essential oils around the feet, ears, and collar; but as s/he said, great care must be taken. So the layperson should probably just buy a pre-mixed essential oil bottle instead of making their own.

Cost-wise, I think it's cheaper than frontline etc., especially if you have a lot of animals. On another thread about where to get cheap frontline etc., someone posted this website: http://www.deadfleaz.com/ They have the cheapest prices I've ever seen.

[jboboxer]

I know this post is a little bit old, but I was reading about neem oil capsules. Are anybody giving their dogs the capsules to prevent fleas?

I was going to give my dog the capsules and also use the aveeno shampoo I've been using and mix it with neem oil.

I was reading that some believe the capsules can prevent fleas and possibly heartworm, but I heard that garlic does not work with fleas at all, but I still read people posting that it does, so I'm not sure what to think.

[dieterherzog]

I live in Seattle so heartworm isn't really a problem here but if I were living in the South, I really wouldn't take the risk despite some people having luck with natural treatment for heartworm.

I would suggest looking at a neem oil shampoo instead of mixing your own. I personally use "Doggie Sudz" which has neem oil and lavender (both help fight parasites) and uses jojoba oil and wheat germ oil for coat health. Halo and Ark Naturals also have good shampoos with neem but shouldn't be used to often because I find that they don't contain enough of the moisturizing kind of oils.

As to your garlic comment, I've been feeding 1/2 a tsp of Garlic and Brewers Yeast (from PetGuard) mixed in to food and the fleas haven't struck at all.

There's a holistic, organic dog supplement company called The Flying Basset which has a formula called Parasite Relief that supposedly prevents heartworm and any kind of wormy thing and you should use the formula once every six months. I love The Flying Basset, I personally use their No Fleas! spray combined with the Ark Naturals Neem Protect Spray when I need more protection especially when my dog goes out to play with other dogs.

And also since I'm an overzealous cleaner, I vacuum 3 times a week with baking soda and my own propriety disinfectant of tea tree oil and lavender with vinegar spray. No fleas so far! In fact even scratching and allergies have been down to a minimum!

[jboboxer]

Originally Posted by dieterherzog

I live in Seattle so heartworm isn't really a problem here but if I were living in the South, I really wouldn't take the risk despite some people having luck with natural treatment for heartworm.

I would suggest looking at a neem oil shampoo instead of mixing your own. I personally use "Doggie Sudz" which has neem oil and lavender (both help fight parasites) and uses jojoba oil and wheat germ oil for coat health. Halo and Ark Naturals also have good shampoos with neem but shouldn't be used to often because I find that they don't contain enough of the moisturizing kind of oils.

As to your garlic comment, I've been feeding 1/2 a tsp of Garlic and Brewers Yeast (from PetGuard) mixed in to food and the fleas haven't struck at all.

There's a holistic, organic dog supplement company called The Flying Basset which has a formula called Parasite Relief that supposedly prevents heartworm and any kind of wormy thing and you should use the formula once every six months. I love The Flying Basset, I personally use their No Fleas! spray combined with the Ark Naturals Neem Protect Spray when I need more protection especially when my dog goes out to play with other dogs.

And also since I'm an overzealous cleaner, I vacuum 3 times a week with baking soda and my own propriety disinfectant of tea tree oil and lavender with vinegar spray. No fleas so far! In fact even scratching and allergies have been down to a minimum!

I was thinking on using the neem leaf capsules since I keep reading great things about it, but not to replace heartworm treatment, but for fleas and my puppy has red manage, which I'm reading people are using to treat as well.

I was going to purchase neem oil by itself already, because I want to use it to treat the manage and was hoping I could use it straight as some people do or mix it with a product called nu-stock, which I am currently mixing it with baby oil right now, so I figured using neem oil people seem to love and if I already have the neem oil I can mix it with the shampoos I'm already using for my dog.

It seems really inexpensive at swansonvitamins
The neem oil is 5.29 for 1 fl oz
The neem leaf capsules at 500 mg 100 Caps is 2.99

[canteloupe]

Originally Posted by jboboxer

I know this post is a little bit old, but I was reading about neem oil capsules. Are anybody giving their dogs the capsules to prevent fleas?

I was going to give my dog the capsules and also use the aveeno shampoo I've been using and mix it with neem oil.

I was reading that some believe the capsules can prevent fleas and possibly heartworm, but I heard that garlic does not work with fleas at all, but I still read people posting that it does, so I'm not sure what to think.

What do you mean, capsules? Like oral capsules? I've never heard of this before. Where did you come across this? I don't know how well this would work for fleas. I'd imagine it would be better for internal parasites. But I'm not sure, maybe it would be great.

They have neem oil at the health food store I go to, but it's really expensive and sort of thick and cloudy. I've never bought it before because I'm not sure how long it's been sitting there, and whether it would mix well with shampoo and sprays. But I totally would buy it if it looked like the other essential oils (clear, thinner texture) and use it to mix.

Oh, and garlic totally works. It works for humans, too. It's great because it discourages all parasites, not just fleas. By itself I don't think you could get rid of fleas that you already have, but in conjunction with other methods it works great as a preventative.

I've been using commercial shampoos like doc ackerman's citronella shampoo and ark natural's neem shampoo. Then I have a bunch of essential oils for making sprays and oil drops. (NOTE: don't use essential oils on cats.) I have citronella, lemongrass, tea tree, lavender, rosemary, eucalyptus, cedarwood, geranium, and sweet orange. I think people would be fine with just the first three or the first five of those. I don't have a dog right now, but I'm going to adopt soon.

When I do, I'll mix the oils in a spray bottle with water and vodka. I'm going to use 1/10 essential oils, 1/10 vodka, and 8/10 water. I think I used to use too much EOs in the mix, and too little water, but I've read more about it since then and I think these would be okay proportions. What do you guys think about this ratio? Essential oils can be really dangerous, even deadly, so I want to be more careful.

For oil drops, I'm going to mix the oils with vodka and jojoba oil. It'll be 1/10 essential oils, 4/10 vodka, 5/10 jojoba oil. Does this sound safe?

Any advice will be appreciated.

[dieterherzog]

Originally Posted by canteloupe

When I do, I'll mix the oils in a spray bottle with water and vodka. I'm going to use 1/10 essential oils, 1/10 vodka, and 8/10 water. I think I used to use too much EOs in the mix, and too little water, but I've read more about it since then and I think these would be okay proportions. What do you guys think about this ratio? Essential oils can be really dangerous, even deadly, so I want to be more careful.

For oil drops, I'm going to mix the oils with vodka and jojoba oil. It'll be 1/10 essential oils, 4/10 vodka, 5/10 jojoba oil. Does this sound safe?

Any advice will be appreciated.

I was wondering what the vodka is for - is it supposed to act to as some form of alcohol which acts as a antiseptic? I personally would not use alcohol in the spray. I only use isopropyl alcohol as to evaporate the homemade antibacterial spray I make. Alcohol may cause your dog's skin to dry out.

I think water, jojoba oil (or wheat germ oil or even olive oil!) and a combination of essential oils should be sufficient. If you add water to the spray, it helps dilute the concoction and you don't end up with something quite so oily.

A good rule of thumb is to add 10 drops of essential oil to 1 cup of water and 1/4 cup oil. So for example, your spray would be made up of 10 drops equally of citronella, neem oil, rosemary, lavender, eucalyptus and tea trea oil, 1 cup water and 1/4 cup oil. Fill that in a 3 oz. spray bottle and that should last you approximately 6 weeks with sprays 2 - 3 times a week.

After my cost-benefit analysis, I find that it's cheaper to just buy the No Fleas! spray from The Flying Basset since essential oils can get quite expensive.

Note: I know these from researching homemade products and my own dog, in case you were wondering.

I also don't know the effects of pure neem capsules on dogs because most of the research talks about feeding dogs neem leaf which is less potent that pure neem oil. Remember that neem in excessive amounts can be toxic, so I would be careful with that. A topical application coupled with garlic and brewers yeast and garlic and a healthy diet should suffice for fleas if you're not in an area that gets tremendously humid and hot.

[canteloupe]

Originally Posted by dieterherzog

I was wondering what the vodka is for - is it supposed to act to as some form of alcohol which acts as a antiseptic? I personally would not use alcohol in the spray. I only use isopropyl alcohol as to evaporate the homemade antibacterial spray I make. Alcohol may cause your dog's skin to dry out.

I think water, jojoba oil (or wheat germ oil or even olive oil!) and a combination of essential oils should be sufficient. If you add water to the spray, it helps dilute the concoction and you don't end up with something quite so oily.

In the past I just used water for sprays, and just oil for drops. But from looking at a bunch of different aromatherapy websites lately, it seems like vodka is added to a lot of blends to make them lighter, and to make them dry faster.

For the spray, I'm actually not sure that I want to add vodka. Maybe just water is fine. But for the drops I definitely want to add vodka. From everything I've read, basically a one-to-one ratio of vodka and carrier oil is best. For small, localized topical applications, this will make the mixture disappear faster without leaving an oily residue, like it used to when I just used oil.

About the choice of carrier oil -- I've used all different thing in the past, including my kitchen olive oil. I recently bought jojoba though, because I wanted something lighter with a long shelf life.

A good rule of thumb is to add 10 drops of essential oil to 1 cup of water and 1/4 cup oil. So for example, your spray would be made up of 10 drops equally of citronella, neem oil, rosemary, lavender, eucalyptus and tea trea oil, 1 cup water and 1/4 cup oil. Fill that in a 3 oz. spray bottle and that should last you approximately 6 weeks with sprays 2 - 3 times a week.

About the recipe you provided, do you really use oil in a spray? And this doesn't make the sprayer clog? I've never done that before.

Also, what do you think the proportions are in your recipe? Like, I was talking about using 1/10 essential oils, 9/10 carrier proportions. What are yours?

Are there any other aromatherapy people out there, who can comment on the use of vodka (or any alcohol) in blends?

[dieterherzog]

Hi, sorry not 1/4 cup, my sincerest apologies. That would definitely make the sprayer clog That was for vinegar.

I meant 1 oz. carrier oil. So let me reiterate: 8oz pure water, 1oz. carrier oil and 10 drops each of citronella, neem oil, rosemary, lavender, eucalyptus and tea tree oil. Jojoba oil as the carrier oil is really the best I would reckon, it's so versatile.

Also, regarding the vodka or alcohol in the mix, yes the main reason to use it is fast evaporation. But because it evaporates really fast, it can dry out the skin. I'm not sure if it would act any differently in a topical solution except as an antiseptic. I don't know why you would want to use a topical solution when you have the spray though, unless if it was to address mange or mite issues.

[canteloupe]

With my last dog, I used a topical treatment in addition to a spray. I used the drops behind the ears and lower down on the neck (and I also put it directly on the collar), on the stomach, and on the legs. I found it tended to linger longer than the spray, so while I used sprays pretty often I didn't use the drops nearly as much. Using drops was mostly just a way to double the power of the EO's, without having to completely soak the dog. Also, with the spray I avoided the neck and head because I didn't want to get it in his eyes, so using drops was how I got EO's on his neck.

From thinking about it more, I think I will follow your advice and not use vodka in the spray. I use it enough that it could possibly dry out the skin. But I do want to use it in the oil drops to cut back on oily residue.

[jboboxer]

There's actually a lot of research I've seen on the capsules that prevent fleas, ticks, mange and I believe it says it works on everything except tapeworm. I searched here and you'll find some people on the board are using the neem leaf powder capsules.
They are 3 dollars for 100 capsules from the place i order all my vitamins.

I know there's a book about giving dogs natural stuff and it talks about neem leaf capsules, but here's a PDF

www.holisticforpets.com/pdf/TheNeemTree.pdf

It's not a very good pdf, I can't find the few studies I saw before. But if you go to kvvet.com and type in neem, you'll see kvvet.com even sells it. I use them more than dr. foster to order and this is what they say about the neem capsules

Perhaps no other plant comes closer to a panacea, a true cure-all, than neem - a tropical evergreen native to India. It has a far wider array of uses than any other herb.

• A lack of side effects accompanies this incredible array of healing properties. The bark, seeds, leaves, fruit, gum and oil of the neem tree contain compounds which offer impressive therapeutic qualities. These compounds are:
- Antiviral
- Antimicrobial
- Antifungal
- Antibacterial
- Antipyretic
- Anti-inflammatory
- Anti-tumor
- Analgesic
- Anti-anxiety
- Alterative
- Anthelmintic
- Immune Stimulant

[SandyPuppy]

Originally Posted by Cheetah

I've been diluting eucalyptus oil in a spray bottle of water and spraying it on everything. We'll see how it works. If I have any problems I'll be looking for neem oil.

I was going to use neem oil, I bought some, but it smells REALLY bad!!! I can't stand it.