[Lucas&Susie]

Hello All,

I'm really concerned with my schnauzers behavior ever since their visit at the groomers yesterday. First off, I dread taking them to get groomed because I know they hate it. This is their forth time getting groomed and each time I drop them off I specifically tell the groomer to please call me right away if there are any issues at all. Well, both dogs had to be shaved down because of matting - As soon as I brought them home, I noticed there were a bit too anxious--they both went into their crates and stayed there for over 3 hours. I went to check up on them and noticed their ears were bugging them because of the ear trimming. The male was hitting his head against the crate because of the itching I flop back their ears (they're not clipped) and discovered a lot of scratches, redness and irritation! Susie, the female, even has some dry blood--like a hematoma. I am so upset right now, I can tell my dogs are really uncomfortable--Lucas, the male does not want to get out from under the bed. I had to literally slip his bowl of food and water under my bed--and he didnt even eat--just drank a lot of water---he was thristy but too scared to come out.
I am making some phone call tomorrow morning. I'm calling my vet first and see what he says---and then I'm calling the groomers to express my concerns. I need to know how excactly they pluck the dogs ear hair and why it caused all that irritation in their poor ears. It's pretty depressing seeing your dogs sad--
I've never had any grooming issues as I am a fairly new pet owner (1 year) so if any of you pet owner gurus could please enlighten me on how to proceed with this? I do plan on asking the groomer's to cover the vet bill. Should I also contact HS? Am I blowing this way out of proportion? Please--any advice would be really helpful.

Thanks,

A distressed dog owner.

[CinnamintStick]

If your dog was so matted that they had to shave them how do you know that they did not have problems under there coat to start with. The gromming will show everything that you cannot see under the mats. Be glad you can now care for there skin. Since your not good at brushing your dogs, why not keep there hair short. If you have had a problem with the grommers in the past why do you take them back?

I wanted to add that most people will tell you that when a dog is shaved they get embarases and will act different after. It has nothing to do with being traumatized. If you had to start walking around naked you would feel the same way. Some dogs that are grommed alot might take on a aditude of I am so pretty.

Any time you save mats there is going to be some irratation trying to go between the mat and the skin. Mats cause the clippers to heat up too. Thats why you need to keep your dogs brushed.

[Lucas&Susie]

Thanks for your response.

Nothing is actually wrong with their skin underneath their coats. The problem is in their ears. Lucas keeps shaking his head and trying to scratch the ear with his paw. He's suffering all becuase of a simply grooming session?? He's still under the bed today not wanting to come out so I decided I'd take him to the vet. I've never had a problem with this groomer in the past--this is the first time anything like this has happened. From now on, I am only going to allow the vet to trim my dogs ear hairs. I don't want my dogs to suffer simply because the groomer's was in a rush. I'm sure they did what the groomer in this vid says not to do: Check out this video---If I find out the groomer did this to my dogs, I'm defintely pursuing some type of action.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OsjxyCLWkbo

[CinnamintStick]

Your exactly why I don't groom dogs anymore. I think your wasting your time. I have also worked in a vet office. My daughter has been a vet tech for 16 years. I have seen it done both ways without any problem. That is just one grommer opinion. What damages did your vet say happened to your dog? Is he going to court with you?

[Lucas&Susie]

I'm sorry to hear about your career change. I'm sure your sarcasm didn't help much either. But then again, I'm sure picking up dog poop earns you a decent living.
Lol, at me taking the groomer to court--I never said that-- I said I'd take action--but not legal action. Gee--most dog owners I deal with are friendly--but some of you people on this board are pretty nasty--especially the disgrunted ex-grooomers such as cinnnamonprick.

[CinnamintStick]

Now now it is not nice to be calling people names.

Here is a few facts.

The ear canals should be kept dry and well ventilated. Ear hair should routinely be removed from the ear canal to improve air flow and reduce humidity inside ear. Removing the hair can sometimes induce an acute inflammatory reaction. This is not an infection and will change back to normal, usually within 24 hours. If the ear does not return to normal in that time, the ear was infected before the hair removal. In this case you should look for signs of infection(left of page). Ear hair removal is important for the health of the ear. Below are some tips on dog ear hair removal.
Some dog breeds have excess hair in the ear that should be plucked regularly.
Gently pluck excessive ear hair to prevent problems( irritation, infection, wax build up...)
Trim hair around outer edge of ear so you can see hair that needs removing
Use ear powder to grip ear hair with fingers, pull to remove hair.
Use hemostats to remove hair you can't pull with fingers.
never go deep in the ear with hemostats, this can damage the ear
Pull small amount of hair at a time, this is more comfortable for the dog.
After removing hair from ear, use ear cleaning tips to the right.
Be sure to clean and sterilize the tools after hair removal.
Regular plucking/removal of ear hair will make cleaning easier and improve ventilation. Doing this regularly will reduce the chance of irritation and/or infection.You might think that plucking ear hair is painful to the dog. there are no nerves running through the hair follicles in the ear canal so plucking is painless. Some dogs are not cooperative with this procedure for different reasons. The more the dog gets used to having ear hair removed, the better he will tolerate it.

[Graco22]

I hope that your dog is feeling better now, and am curious to see what the vet said about his ears.

I have a couple comments that may be helpful to you. Unfortunately, schnauzers have to be groomed. Whether you learn to do it yourself, or find a groomer you can trust to do it. You need to find a way to make the process easier on both you and your dogs. From reading your post, you have had the dogs groomed 4 times in a year? If that is correct, that could be most of your problem, and why they are shaved, and irritated. Schnauzers should be groomed regularly, 6-8 weeks. Once they are matted, they must be shaved for the sake of the dog. (dematting is extremely painful for the pet). Even a well brushed out dog can be irritated from clipping when their skin is not accustomed to it. Its like shaving your legs 4 times a year. Chances are your legs will be irritated, and your skin isn't accustomed to it. Add sensitive skin (your dogs may have sensitive skin anyway) and you are setting yourself up for disaster.

Many schnauzers have ALOT of hair in their ear canals. That needs to be removed, to promote air flow thru the ear. If your vet prefers the hair is not plucked, then you need to let the groomer know to leave it be, but most vets want that hair plucked out. If the dog is only getting groomed a few times a year, that is going to be alot of plucking in one session, and very high chances of the ear canal being irritated. In that case, the hair should be being plucked by you at home, a little bit every week, until its all removed, and then maintained at home at least every 2 weeks. Your vet can show you how to do it.

Lastly, your dogs can and will feed off of your behavior. If you feel bad taking them to the groomer, they will sense that something is scary/wrong/bad, etc and react. You need to make it a positive experience for them. No crying, no "I'm sorry's", sad faces, etc. Find a groomer you trust, and get them groomed much more often. Soon they will realize it doesn't have to be a bad experience, (and so will you) and be happier and healthier for it. The more you react to the situation, the more the dogs think there is a reason to be scared, etc. You need to be matter of fact, calm, confidant and strong when you take them to be groomed. They will then feed off your confidance and security, and it can start to be a pleasant experience for all of you.

[Criosphynx]

Originally Posted by Lucas&Susie

I'm sorry to hear about your career change. I'm sure your sarcasm didn't help much either. But then again, I'm sure picking up dog poop earns you a decent living.
Lol, at me taking the groomer to court--I never said that-- I said I'd take action--but not legal action. Gee--most dog owners I deal with are friendly--but some of you people on this board are pretty nasty--especially the disgrunted ex-grooomers such as cinnnamonprick.

What are you thinking? You just insulted probably a third of the people on this board.

I agree, if you are not willing to groom your dogs more often then shnauzers are not right for you.

Pulling hairs out one at a time or all at once probably makes little difference trama wise. The same amount of hairs are being removed.

Either way i hope your dogs are ok , please groom them more often.

[poodleholic]

This is understandably upsetting, however, please know that it does not necessarily mean that your groomer did anything wrong. Your dogs may have an infection brewing (yeast, bacterial, or a combination), or, simply reacting because it's been too long between groomings. Schnauzer's need to be groomed every 4-6 weeks, and should be brushed and combed by you every couple of days in between. By doing so, your Schnauzers will come to enjoy being groomed. My dogs are so relaxed, they fall asleep on the grooming table while I'm working on them (whether it's nails, brushing, or shaving feet).


I have Standard Poodles, and do remove SOME ear hair with my fingers, also trimming with a rounded tip scissor. I do this each and every week, as part of a regular grooming routine, to keep on top of things so they do not develop any problems. I use an ear cleanser twice a month to clean their ears, ensuring that any infection will be caught early, though it's been over 5 yrs. since the last ear infection.

We were all new dog owners at some point! I learned the hard way about matts! LOL

Keep us posted on how your little ones are doing.

[Purplex15]

i find it very funny that you stopped responding to your own post once some intelligent posts came up disagreeing with you. as a dog owner, i hope that in the future you get your grooming information from a more reliable source than some random lady on a youtube video. if you did take some sort of action i doubt the argument "a lady on youtube said to do it this way" would hold up very well for yiou. read some books talk to people, you need to more information.

all of the things you have mentioned tell me one thing: you do not groom your dogs at home enough, and dont take them to be professionally done enough. everything you described tells me that your dogs were in terrible shape going to the groomers, and there isnt much a groomer can do to make the process pleasent when they are not kept up at home. shaving a dog with matts is difficult. the dog has weird vibrating clippers right next to the skin, the groomer has to take more time to do it b/c of how careful they have to be, and if the matting was severe, the dog will feel very strange after wards. imagine wearing a sweater for months at a time, then finally takingt it off. it would feel strange to you to finally be able to feel air on your skin.

now about the ears. there is no way any sort of infection or problem would turn up solely based on a grooming or plucking session. if the ear is infected, then it has been for some time. if you havebnt been plucking the ear hair and it has been a few months since it was last done, then it is no wonder their ears are irritated. like i said with the matting. if you had your ear canal completely blocked with hair, and all that hair was suddenly removed, you would feel strange. i have firsthand seen dogs respond the same way as your describing (htting head on the kennel) after a grotesque amount of ear hair was removed.

this situation pisses me off. not only are you o a dog site, in the grooming thread, insulting our profession, but you are probably going to go to a vet who will also blame the groomer b/c they wont have much else to say to you. you will give them your pov (hich is horribly skewed), and probably give you the steam you need to all these poor groomers and yell at them. they should not pay your vet bill, and if you were going to have them do that, you would need to call them first and describe what happened. i hope they dont pay the bill, and i hope they fire you as a client.

peop like you are exactly why good groomers quit.

[alphadoginthehouse]

Originally Posted by Lucas&Susie

especially the disgrunted ex-grooomers such as cinnnamonprick.

You sound and act like a child...who has no business with dogs who need to be groomed/clipped, etc...who insults others by calling them names. If you don't want opinions, don't post on this forum. Try taking care of your dogs BEFORE you take them to a groomer to get you out of the mess you made.

Grow up before you post again, please.

[poodleholic]

Good grief, people! This is someone NEW to dogs, who probably had no clue that the dogs' ear hair needed to be plucked, who had no prior experience with dogs period, much less one needing the grooming upkeep that Schnauzers require! Educate without pointing that finger of blame and shame, and give the benefit of doubt. Habitual problem? Ok, then it's deserved.

[Peaches]

Originally Posted by poodleholic

Good grief, people! This is someone NEW to dogs, who probably had no clue that the dogs' ear hair needed to be plucked, who had no prior experience with dogs period, much less one needing the grooming upkeep that Schnauzers require! Educate without pointing that finger of blame and shame, and give the benefit of doubt. Habitual problem? Ok, then it's deserved.

I think the problem occurred when Cinnamintstick did try to educate and inform them and they in turn began replying with insults and negative comments about the entire grooming profession. Even if people were being a bit abrasive with them there was no call for some of the things they said. I think if Lucas&Susie hadn't replied with such harsh insults and remained more calm even if they felt they were being attacked it wouldn't have escalated this badly.

Just my two cents.

[CinnamintStick]

From what I could tell, she was not here to be educated on caring for her dogs. She only wanted advice on how to proceed against the groomer. It was only when I tried to explain what I thought was going on with the dogs that there was a problem.

Originally Posted by Lucas&Susie

I've never had any grooming issues as I am a fairly new pet owner (1 year) so if any of you pet owner gurus could please enlighten me on how to proceed with this? I do plan on asking the groomer's to cover the vet bill. Should I also contact HS? Am I blowing this way out of proportion? Please--any advice would be really helpful.

[alphadoginthehouse]

Originally Posted by Peaches

I think the problem occurred when Cinnamintstick did try to educate and inform them and they in turn began replying with insults and negative comments about the entire grooming profession. Even if people were being a bit abrasive with them there was no call for some of the things they said. I think if Lucas&Susie hadn't replied with such harsh insults and remained more calm even if they felt they were being attacked it wouldn't have escalated this badly.

Just my two cents.

I agree with you Peaches (and you CS). It's one thing to be angry but when you call people names, that's "beyond the pale" and no one here should have to put up with it. Haven't noticed any replies recently from the OP.

[Peaches]

Originally Posted by alphadoginthehouse

I agree with you Peaches (and you CS). It's one thing to be angry but when you call people names, that's "beyond the pale" and no one here should have to put up with it. Haven't noticed any replies recently from the OP.

Probably got scared off after they saw that no one was going to back them up. It would be nice though if they would just come back and apologize for the things they said. I'm sure that if they would just sincerely admit that they were wrong and open their minds up to what they're told all affected would be willing to forgive them.

Though I can't see that happening honestly. As Cinnamintstick said they didn't seem at all interested in educating themselves or really getting an opinion on what to do about their dogs. They just wanted people to confirm the negative things they had to say about their groomer.

[poodleholic]

Originally Posted by Peaches

I think the problem occurred when Cinnamintstick did try to educate and inform them and they in turn began replying with insults and negative comments about the entire grooming profession. Even if people were being a bit abrasive with them there was no call for some of the things they said. I think if Lucas&Susie hadn't replied with such harsh insults and remained more calm even if they felt they were being attacked it wouldn't have escalated this badly.

Just my two cents.

It was Cinnaminstick who started the insults and negative comments by starting out her post with this:

Your exactly why I don't groom dogs anymore.

THAT is when the OP responded in kind, and I can't say I blame her, even though I may have responded differently.

I was new to Poodles and was really ticked off about my boyfriend's Standard, who had not pawed at his ears or shown any indication of ear problems prior to the grooming session. When he came home, his ears were bloody red, and bare - absolutely every hair had been plucked from his ears. He shook his head, pawed at it, and it was awful to hear him groaning in pain. I was very angry with the groomer, and took Oliver to the vet the same day. He did NOT have an ear infection of any kind. The plucking is what caused the irritation, redness, and swelling. The vet mixed up a solution (which is the witch hazel, gentian violet solution, and boric acid powder formula), and had us flush his ears twice a day. Oliver had sensitive ears, and did not react well to having them totally plucked. The groomer was just doing her job as she had been taught, so my anger was misplaced. The next time we brought Oliver in to be groomed, we simply asked her to leave his ears alone, per our vet, and she did. No problem.

Over the past 7 years I have experimented with my own Standard Poodles, plucking, not plucking, and something in between. I do not use anything but my fingers to pull out excess hair, trimming the rest with a scissor made for this, and don't remove all that much. This works for my two, who, BTW, are not plagued with recurrent ear infections, thank dog! It's been at least 5 yrs. since the last infection, and that was a result from vaccinations.

We all have to learn, and when our "educator(s)" attack our ignorance with comments like the one above, we get defensive, and not very open to what that person has to say, good advice or not.

[Peaches]

To poodleholic - As I said some of Cinnamintstick's comments might have been abrasive and accusing and I can see why Lucas&Susie would become defensive, but at the same time I don't really find that an excuse to react the way the OP did. Calling them Cinnamonprick? That line about picking up dog poop for a living? That was crossing it a bit to far even if Cinnamintstick was in the wrong as well. It's one thing to be angry about a response and to give a negative one back, but the way the OP handled it was something I would expect from a child not an adult.

And then to leave in the middle of everything like that without a word because of one person... well that might be more understandable as no one likes to feel like they're being attacked, but I just personally think it would have spoken better for their character to have at least stayed and ignored the source of their agitation to gain the advice of people like you and Graco22 who were trying to help.

[cshellenberger]

OK I'm. Closing this down too many insults.