[Rick M]

All-

New to the forum and thank you in advance for your help. I have a 7 year old Golden - I have always taken him to Petsmart and have been very satisfied with their bath and "neat-n-up" grooming package. Basically they shave his pads and top of his feet, shave the hair under his floppy ears and in the ear canal area to help them dry, and have done a basic "trim" of his whole body.

Now it is summer and I'm thinking a little more cut may help some with his shedding and the heat (I live in eastern NC). One site I found said for th eboy to use a 5F or 7F, 15 for the pads and 10 for the stomach. Even the 5F seems very short from the spec I have seen - 1/4" length. That seems more like a shave which I don't want to do - I am concerned that he needs some of the hair for insulation and also to prevent sunburn.

I have called Petsmart and they have about a 3-week wait. Most groomers around here do. I called and found one that can do it tomorrow but she said she has been shaving all Goldens and Labs lately and didn't seem to sure how I wanted to groom my Golden. Any advice I can give her? Do the blades above seem right? Or is the advice for me instead of her - go elsewhere?

Thanks again for your time and thoughts on the issue!

Rick

[Shalva]

Originally Posted by Rick M

All-

New to the forum and thank you in advance for your help. I have a 7 year old Golden - I have always taken him to Petsmart and have been very satisfied with their bath and "neat-n-up" grooming package. Basically they shave his pads and top of his feet, shave the hair under his floppy ears and in the ear canal area to help them dry, and have done a basic "trim" of his whole body.

Now it is summer and I'm thinking a little more cut may help some with his shedding and the heat (I live in eastern NC). One site I found said for th eboy to use a 5F or 7F, 15 for the pads and 10 for the stomach. Even the 5F seems very short from the spec I have seen - 1/4" length. That seems more like a shave which I don't want to do - I am concerned that he needs some of the hair for insulation and also to prevent sunburn.

I have called Petsmart and they have about a 3-week wait. Most groomers around here do. I called and found one that can do it tomorrow but she said she has been shaving all Goldens and Labs lately and didn't seem to sure how I wanted to groom my Golden. Any advice I can give her? Do the blades above seem right? Or is the advice for me instead of her - go elsewhere?

Thanks again for your time and thoughts on the issue!

Rick

well yo udont' want to shave a golden, the outer stiffer hair is called guard hair and that actually reflects the sun off the dog.... the underneath softer fluffier hair is the undercoat....

when you shave a golden you remove the insulating guard hair and leave the hotter heavier undercoat and thus your dog is more susceptible to heat stroke

I would trim up feet and ears and tail..... and I would take a tool called a coat king (sized 12) an undercoat rake.... and a furminator.... and just comb and comb and comb until the hair is thinner and the loose undercoat is pulled out....

shaving a dog with an undercoat is never a good idea.
most of the groomers in my area just won't do it.
s

[Graco22]

Ask her if she has "attachments" or "combs" as they are sometimes called. They are plastic, or the newer ones are Wahl Stainless Steel, and they fit over a #30 blade, and can leave the coat up to 1 1/4 inches long all over. They look like a teddy bear when done. Its a great clip for a golden that is very active outside and in water, sand, etc. Much easier to maintain, but there is still coat to protect the dog. If she looks at you like she doesn't know what you are talking about..then wait the 3 weeks for someone who knows what they are doing.

As a sidenote, as a professional groomer, serving my clientele, I will do any haircut that a client requests on their pet, as long as its not causing pain/harm to the pet. Its there dog, and if they want a mohawk, they are getting a mohawk. Yes, with double coated dogs, there are "risks" that should be explained to the owner first, so they can decide if they are sure thats what they want, but ultimately, its their decision. Dogs are pretty domesticated nowadays, and few of these "pets" are doing what they were bred to do, and don't need the protection of a dense coat, etc. They are house dogs in climate controled environments. Refusing to shave a golden is like a hairstylist refusing to shave a man's head. The man could get sunburn, irritation, etc....but I have never heard of a hair stylist refusing to shave. I have heard of groomers refusing to clip certain doublecoated/non "haircut" dogs, and I just disagree with those thoughts. Groomers are supposed to provide a service, and as long as its not going to injure or cause pain to the pet, a person should be allowed to have the dogs hair as they wish.

[Shalva]

Originally Posted by Graco22

Ask her if she has "attachments" or "combs" as they are sometimes called. They are plastic, or the newer ones are Wahl Stainless Steel, and they fit over a #30 blade, and can leave the coat up to 1 1/4 inches long all over. They look like a teddy bear when done. Its a great clip for a golden that is very active outside and in water, sand, etc. Much easier to maintain, but there is still coat to protect the dog. If she looks at you like she doesn't know what you are talking about..then wait the 3 weeks for someone who knows what they are doing.

As a sidenote, as a professional groomer, serving my clientele, I will do any haircut that a client requests on their pet, as long as its not causing pain/harm to the pet. Its there dog, and if they want a mohawk, they are getting a mohawk. Yes, with double coated dogs, there are "risks" that should be explained to the owner first, so they can decide if they are sure thats what they want, but ultimately, its their decision. Dogs are pretty domesticated nowadays, and few of these "pets" are doing what they were bred to do, and don't need the protection of a dense coat, etc. They are house dogs in climate controled environments. Refusing to shave a golden is like a hairstylist refusing to shave a man's head. The man could get sunburn, irritation, etc....but I have never heard of a hair stylist refusing to shave. I have heard of groomers refusing to clip certain doublecoated/non "haircut" dogs, and I just disagree with those thoughts. Groomers are supposed to provide a service, and as long as its not going to injure or cause pain to the pet, a person should be allowed to have the dogs hair as they wish.

When a client asks to shave a golden they are risking the dogs health the risk of heat stroke is real and deadly and as such I respect those who refuse to do a "haircut" that will cause real risk to a dog who can not make a decision for themselves based on ignorance of the owner. Thus it is different from refusing to do a haircut on a man

As I said most of the reputable groomers in this area refuse to shave a golden.... I respect them for that.... let the person go to another groomer who doesn't care about the health and safety of the dog just so they can get the client and the money.
s

[FriendsOfZoe]

I still don't understand why anyone would shave a golden. That's one of the best things about the breed...they require no professional grooming...you can bathe, brush and trim the nails on your own, and you don't need to pay for professional grooming ever.

It bothers me a lot too...I mean, people think it makes sense because less fur=less heat in the summer, but that's not true. Dogs don't cool down through their skin like we do; they pant.

Try using plenty of fresh cold water, ice cubes, and maybe a cooling pad (to lay on) to keep your golden cool. Walk and play early in the morning or after sundown, and do lots of training and indoor games while it's hot out. Swimming is great too...goldens love it and it keeps them cool!

But save your money and cancel the grooming appointment...or just get a nail trim and bath.

[Rough_Collies2008]

I agree with FOZ and Shalva.

I don't own a golden, but I know people shave rough coated collies thinking it will keep them cool as well....however, it has the opposite reaction. As As already mentioned, shaving double coated breeds ruins their natural insulation...which keeps them warm, and keeps them cool.

FOZ offered some great ideas on how to keep your golden cool, without shaving.

[skunkstripe]

What's up with people wanting to shave their Labs and Goldens suddenly? Is it the heat? Rake out the loose fur, give them plenty to drink, take them swmming, put in a kiddie pool. And one other trick is you can go to a flooring place sometimes and get granite remnants for free. Put them in your freezer and when they are cold, wrap them in a towel and put it in doggy's bed. Easy way to stay cool. But don't shave your dog please!

[Purplex15]

Originally Posted by Graco22

Ask her if she has "attachments" or "combs" as they are sometimes called. They are plastic, or the newer ones are Wahl Stainless Steel, and they fit over a #30 blade, and can leave the coat up to 1 1/4 inches long all over. They look like a teddy bear when done. Its a great clip for a golden that is very active outside and in water, sand, etc. Much easier to maintain, but there is still coat to protect the dog. If she looks at you like she doesn't know what you are talking about..then wait the 3 weeks for someone who knows what they are doing.

As a sidenote, as a professional groomer, serving my clientele, I will do any haircut that a client requests on their pet, as long as its not causing pain/harm to the pet. Its there dog, and if they want a mohawk, they are getting a mohawk. Yes, with double coated dogs, there are "risks" that should be explained to the owner first, so they can decide if they are sure thats what they want, but ultimately, its their decision. Dogs are pretty domesticated nowadays, and few of these "pets" are doing what they were bred to do, and don't need the protection of a dense coat, etc. They are house dogs in climate controled environments. Refusing to shave a golden is like a hairstylist refusing to shave a man's head. The man could get sunburn, irritation, etc....but I have never heard of a hair stylist refusing to shave. I have heard of groomers refusing to clip certain doublecoated/non "haircut" dogs, and I just disagree with those thoughts. Groomers are supposed to provide a service, and as long as its not going to injure or cause pain to the pet, a person should be allowed to have the dogs hair as they wish.

your comparison is actually wrong. i have had this discussion with my hairstylist before. she actually said she does refuse haircuts to people sometimes based on what they want. if a woman comes in who has very long hair and randomly says she wants it all cut off, she wont do it b/c the woman is usually doing it b/c of many reasons, none of them being that she actually wants the haircut (pms, pregnency, whatever). she used to do it, and found that most women freaked out about the cut afterwards, either freaked out and didnt pay, or just stopped going to her. so hairstylists can and will refuse service, just like any business, if they feel they have to.

goldens should not get a haircut. i dont mean to sound harsh (b/c i know people always get defensive) but you should not have gotten this dog if you didnt want to deal with the coat. that is just my opinion. a haircut will not reduce the shedding at all, it will just make the hairs shorter (which actually makes them more difficult to clean up). the groomer you got a hold of sounds like she is available so early for a reason. i cant even tell you how many people i know who took their double coated dog in, were very vague on instructions (just like you), and ended up with a shaved dog. the coat takes anywhere from 6 months to a year, maybe more to grow out completely. and while the hair is growing, your dog is more susceptible to sunburn and heatstroke. the only thing that should be done to a golden is trimming of the paws and feathers, and sanitaries of course. i do not personally do more on a golden than that, and refuse to do more. people will find someone else to do their dog, and when one of those dogs dies b/c of prolonged sun exposure, they can be the ones who feel guilty about shaving that dog.

in the end you will do what you want, but do know that no haircut will make your dog cooler. you can try and use that excuse to get it done anyways, but you are actually just trying to change your dog to make your life easier, it is your need and not his. i dont think people realize this, they think they are helping their dog, when they are actually only helping themselves. the best thing you can do for your dog is daily brushing and making sure the undercoat does not get matted or impacted.

[Graco22]

I understand where many of you are coming from with your thoughts on this thread. I used to think the same thing..Why get a lab, and shave it, a golden and cut it short, a yorky and want it cut like a schnauzer....Used to drive myself crazy with it, because being a professional groomer, I have seen and heard plenty. I have learned not to stress over it anymore. There are MILLIONS of people out there that have goldens, labs, collies, huskies, mals, etc etc etc that get those dogs shaved or clipped shorter than their "breed standard." Why they do it are their own reasons. Too much hair, they think the dog is hot, they got the dog for its temperment rather than coat, etc and so on. But the fact of the matter is that a VERY high percentage of pet owners DO NOT take care of their pets' coats at home. They just don't. They get a collie because its pretty...but won't brush it and for some reason the thought never occurs to them that they should be professionally groomed. They get a golden or lab because they are good family dogs, then realize they can't stand the hair all over the place. I would much rather see a shaved golden, lab, etc in its home than see it in full coat sitting in a shelter because all the groomers in the area refused to shave it or cut it short. Yes, they still shed when short. But if kept groomed regularly (6-8 weeks professionally) that shedding is minimal and hardly noticed, because they are short hairs. People don't care that the dog is shedding if its not all over everything they own. I am not saying I agree with those thoughts, but it is just a fact about MANY people with pets.

I will shave a double coated breed, or anything else a client asks me to shave if it will not harm the dog. I won't go shorter than a 7F, as shorter is too irritating to the skin. I educate the client first, telling them it won't make the dog cooler/more comfortable. I tell them the risks of sunburn/heatstroke, etc. I explain good, quality diets making a healthier, less shedding coat, etc. If they still want the dog short, then I give the pet the haircut. I have yet to hear of a dog dying of heatstroke because it was shaved..they die of heatstroke because (shaved or not) people leave them in cars, leave them tied in the sun, exercise them when its too hot, no water, etc etc. They don't have heatstroke because they are short. A shaved golden is no different than owning a boxer, dobe, etc. When its 85 degrees outside, you have to take precautions as a pet owner. I don't groom in a rural area, so my client's dogs are inside pets, and part of the family, so in climate controlled homes.

Saying that goldens shouldn't get haircuts is a bit over the top IMO. Technically, Shihtzu's shouldn't get haircuts, lhasas, yorkies, tibetans, beardies, maltese, and tons of other breeds. Harsh coated terriers should ONLY be handstripped then...as clipping ruins the coat, and it does NOT come back correctly. They lose their harsh protective coat forever. So is giving a "puppy clip" to a shihtzu going to cause them to be more susceptible to heatstroke? Possibly? Who knows. Its all about using common sense when its hot out regardless of whether or not the dog is clipped short.

Goldens can and do benefit from grooming. The dead undercoat is removed, the hair on the ears are thinned, the feet,pads and sanitary is trimmed. The feathering as well. Most people just don't brush their dogs...they take them to the groomer. There is nothing wrong with that, as long as they do it often enough to maintain the coat. I hve been forced to shave goldens, against my choice and the owners choice..but when the dog hasn't been touched by a brush in 2 years, there isn't much that can be done. Those are the people that are under the understanding that "goldens don't need to be groomed." Matts the size of basketballs on the pants, baseballs behind the ears, etc. How many labs are sitting in shelters, ready to be euthanized because the owners were tired of the shedding and didn't know there were options? A haircut could have saved its life.

I guess in the ideal world, people would only choose dogs that fit their lifestyles and homes, and would do their research before falling in love with that cute little fluffy puppy. Sadly, it is so far from that. I see it every single day, over and over and over. If cutting it short is what helps keep that pet in the home, then I am happy to do it. Here's an example of the things I see every day, though thankfully not usually this extreme. I took in a rare new client today. A shitzu that is in full coat. All the way to the ground. Topknot in two bands on its head. The owner tells me its her husbands dog, and he "takes care of it", though it hasn't been groomed since last summer, and oh yeah, "she's an outside dog." Well, you can imagine the condition of this dog. The topknot...it was a knot alright. Both of them..knotted right together, with the rest of the cheek and ear hair. The rest of the body was in the same condition. She got a short clip needless to say. Groomers see this kind of stuff every day, and it is so very sad. We try to educate, and educate, educate, but its hard to educate people that don't come in. JMOs of course. Its just dog hair, it will grow back.

[Love's_Sophie]

If you want him shortened up good, ask for like a 3\4 inch cut, or something of the similar; they will then use a snap on comb, or long blade like a 5\8 or 3F.

I am sorry folks but if people want to shave off their dogs, that is their business...there is no reason to ever say "It should NEVER be done" on a certain breed...it's their dog, and their choice; if they want to keep the dog short, and a bit more manageable, who cares? I hate when people have to jump on other people when they think that a long haired dog should "never" be shaved...People may or may not shave off the dog to 'keep it cool' or to 'reduce shedding' or to keep the coat more managable, some people like the breed, but prefer the coat to be neatened up more...so what? I am a dog groomer and I have a Border Collie mix, and I keep her clipped down in the summer...heaven forbid...

To be honest, as a groomer, I would rather these dogs come in for an every 4 month shave, than an every 4 month comb out, especially when people just aren't always as fastidious with their dog's hair as their are their own...To me it is about the dog's comfort, not always about 'breed standard'... The above poster was right one stating that ideally everyone would get a dog based on research for their lifestyle, and follow through with care...but nothing will ever be ideal; some people will 'get it' and others won't, and still others will always prefer shorter hair on a long haired breed...

I have had many stories about matted dogs as well...and like I said, I would prefer shave offs on people who don't groom (combing out) at home, or bring them in often enough. It's about the dog's comfort; I know I cringe when ever I have to comb out a badly matted dog, and I know that the dog actually feels what's going on...

[skunkstripe]

As a Golden owner I'd rather people groom their own dogs regularly rather than let it go for 4 months and then let a groomer deal with it. And the reason has nothing to do with the "breed standard."

I would make a lousy groomer, but I comb out the mats and tangles in Sophia's fur once a month. And I'm not too proud to cut out and mats I don't feel like dealing with. One day a few years ago I found a lump the size of a cherry in her behind. It turned out to be a cancer tumor. We got it taken out within a week. Fortunately it was small and the cancer had not spread to the surrounding tissue. If I hadn't been grooming her myself once a month and feeling down to her skin, we might not have caught it in time. Goldens are prone to cancer and if you do your own grooming, even if you do a crummy job, you're more likely to catch it. If you do nothing and take your dog in for a shave once or twice a year, the groomer may or may not say "oh here, I found a lump on your dog, maybe you should go to the vet."

Sure, there's no law against shaving your dog, but I still think it's a copout and it's not even good for the dog. It costs $$, it won't keep the dog cooler and it is likely to cause a series of other problems. I think it's a lousy idea and I wouldn't recommend it to any Golden owner. I'd rather see us do a poor job of grooming ourselves than a professional shave or blow dry once or twice a year by someone who doesn't own the dog.

[Purplex15]

Originally Posted by Graco22

I understand where many of you are coming from with your thoughts on this thread. I used to think the same thing..Why get a lab, and shave it, a golden and cut it short, a yorky and want it cut like a schnauzer....Used to drive myself crazy with it, because being a professional groomer, I have seen and heard plenty. I have learned not to stress over it anymore. There are MILLIONS of people out there that have goldens, labs, collies, huskies, mals, etc etc etc that get those dogs shaved or clipped shorter than their "breed standard." Why they do it are their own reasons. Too much hair, they think the dog is hot, they got the dog for its temperment rather than coat, etc and so on. But the fact of the matter is that a VERY high percentage of pet owners DO NOT take care of their pets' coats at home. They just don't. They get a collie because its pretty...but won't brush it and for some reason the thought never occurs to them that they should be professionally groomed. They get a golden or lab because they are good family dogs, then realize they can't stand the hair all over the place. I would much rather see a shaved golden, lab, etc in its home than see it in full coat sitting in a shelter because all the groomers in the area refused to shave it or cut it short. Yes, they still shed when short. But if kept groomed regularly (6-8 weeks professionally) that shedding is minimal and hardly noticed, because they are short hairs. People don't care that the dog is shedding if its not all over everything they own. I am not saying I agree with those thoughts, but it is just a fact about MANY people with pets.

I will shave a double coated breed, or anything else a client asks me to shave if it will not harm the dog. I won't go shorter than a 7F, as shorter is too irritating to the skin. I educate the client first, telling them it won't make the dog cooler/more comfortable. I tell them the risks of sunburn/heatstroke, etc. I explain good, quality diets making a healthier, less shedding coat, etc. If they still want the dog short, then I give the pet the haircut. I have yet to hear of a dog dying of heatstroke because it was shaved..they die of heatstroke because (shaved or not) people leave them in cars, leave them tied in the sun, exercise them when its too hot, no water, etc etc. They don't have heatstroke because they are short. A shaved golden is no different than owning a boxer, dobe, etc. When its 85 degrees outside, you have to take precautions as a pet owner. I don't groom in a rural area, so my client's dogs are inside pets, and part of the family, so in climate controlled homes.

Saying that goldens shouldn't get haircuts is a bit over the top IMO. Technically, Shihtzu's shouldn't get haircuts, lhasas, yorkies, tibetans, beardies, maltese, and tons of other breeds. Harsh coated terriers should ONLY be handstripped then...as clipping ruins the coat, and it does NOT come back correctly. They lose their harsh protective coat forever. So is giving a "puppy clip" to a shihtzu going to cause them to be more susceptible to heatstroke? Possibly? Who knows. Its all about using common sense when its hot out regardless of whether or not the dog is clipped short.

Goldens can and do benefit from grooming. The dead undercoat is removed, the hair on the ears are thinned, the feet,pads and sanitary is trimmed. The feathering as well. Most people just don't brush their dogs...they take them to the groomer. There is nothing wrong with that, as long as they do it often enough to maintain the coat. I hve been forced to shave goldens, against my choice and the owners choice..but when the dog hasn't been touched by a brush in 2 years, there isn't much that can be done. Those are the people that are under the understanding that "goldens don't need to be groomed." Matts the size of basketballs on the pants, baseballs behind the ears, etc. How many labs are sitting in shelters, ready to be euthanized because the owners were tired of the shedding and didn't know there were options? A haircut could have saved its life.

I guess in the ideal world, people would only choose dogs that fit their lifestyles and homes, and would do their research before falling in love with that cute little fluffy puppy. Sadly, it is so far from that. I see it every single day, over and over and over. If cutting it short is what helps keep that pet in the home, then I am happy to do it. Here's an example of the things I see every day, though thankfully not usually this extreme. I took in a rare new client today. A shitzu that is in full coat. All the way to the ground. Topknot in two bands on its head. The owner tells me its her husbands dog, and he "takes care of it", though it hasn't been groomed since last summer, and oh yeah, "she's an outside dog." Well, you can imagine the condition of this dog. The topknot...it was a knot alright. Both of them..knotted right together, with the rest of the cheek and ear hair. The rest of the body was in the same condition. She got a short clip needless to say. Groomers see this kind of stuff every day, and it is so very sad. We try to educate, and educate, educate, but its hard to educate people that don't come in. JMOs of course. Its just dog hair, it will grow back.

all i really ever hear from people who condone the shaving of a dog like a golden are excuses. its fact that it doesnt benefit the dog in any way, and just b/c you have excuses doesnt make your decision right. the goal should be to educate people about why it shouldnt be done, not give in to them b/c they are too ignorant to learn otherwise. thats really all it sounds like you are doing in this post, you gave up b/c it got too difficult to explain this to people. i know many groomers who do not take in shave downs for double coats, and many who do not even do brushouts. if a dog comes in matted, they literally tell the owner to brush the dog out themselves then bring it in. and these are very talented groomers who have been doing it for 20+ years. im just saying, that many people share the same belief, and still do well for themselves. i also know groomers who make a rule for new clients that if their dog ever come in matted, doesnt matter the breed, more than once, then they dont do the dog anymore

i agree it is the owners choice, and they have the right to do whatever they want to their dog. but i also have the right to refuse to do it. i am here to make the dog happy, not the owner. i personally dont believe it does a double coated dog any good to be shaved, and it many instances it can be harmful. so in my eyes, i would be doing a dog a disservice if i were to shave him for no reason other than the owner just cannot deal with the shaving. not every groomer has to feel the same way, but that is how i feel, and im sure many others feel the same way. a doublecoated breed who is shaved does have a higher chance of heat stroke b/c without his insulation the dog will get hotter faster, so he doesnt have to be outsie long at all to be at risk. since your argument is most of the people who want rthis done are people who never groom their dog, dont have much time for their dog, or they are outside dogs, then wouldnt that dog be in even more of a risk? once i tell people that they actually would have to watch their dog more b/c of these risks, they always say n/m.

your a groomer, you know fully well the difference betweemn shaving a shih tzu and shaving a husky, so you know how irrelevant that argument is. dogs like shihs, poodles, maltese, schnauzers, and the like do not experiance the drastic change in coat that a dog with undercoat does. their hair grows back the same way. they also do not use their coats the same as undercoat breeds do. as far as terriers, i try to talk people out of that as well.

i am not a fan of people who get a dog then say they want the dog to look different. im sorry, but i just dont have the patience to deal with people like that. telling them flat out im sorry i wont shave your dog for these reasons, really keeps me from having to hear all of the excuses. they want their golden to look like a lab, the shedding is just too crazy, i dont have time to brush, well ALL of those things should have been considered BEFORE the person got the dog. if people routinely groomed their dog, the shedding would not be so crazy. if the shedding really bothers someone that much then they need to get a different kind of dog.

[Graco22]

I am going to agree to disagree. This is a point that can be argued for eons. There are always going to be groomers that refuse to cut down certain breeds, and always going to be groomers that will cut down those breeds. Everyone has their right to refuse a pet for any reason, and that is a wonderful part of this job.