Question for you groomers

007Dogs · 10-11-2007, 01:04 AM

A groomer can not legally sedate a dog. It must be done by a licensed vet or licensed vet tech under the advise of a vet. When I did grooming for the vets office, if a dog truely did need to be sedated, the vet did it, but only with the consent of the owner. If the owner had dropped the dog off, and we needed to sedate, we first called for permission. If they could not be reached, I did the best I could without sedating. And if I could not groom without it, then it did not get groomed. It is actually harder to groom a sedated dog because they just want to lay on the table. They are much easier to groom in a standing position.

TeddieXRuxpin · 10-11-2007, 01:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 007Dogs

A groomer can not legally sedate a dog. It must be done by a licensed vet or licensed vet tech under the advise of a vet. When I did grooming for the vets office, if a dog truely did need to be sedated, the vet did it, but only with the consent of the owner. If the owner had dropped the dog off, and we needed to sedate, we first called for permission. If they could not be reached, I did the best I could without sedating. And if I could not groom without it, then it did not get groomed. It is actually harder to groom a sedated dog because they just want to lay on the table. They are much easier to groom in a standing position.

This was my exact thought.

I've had to take Teddie in to be sedated to get his ears cleaned and his nails trimmed. Tomorrow I'm taking him in again to ask what all can be done. Neither do I have the money to pay every three weeks and it's horrible on his health.

Since you mentioned you were a groomer for a while do you have any tips for an owner at home. Teddie came off of the street. When I started working with him I couldn't touch his feet, ears, face or mouth. Now I can open his mouth, trim his hair, clean his ears, but he gets super aggressive if I touch his feet. It's not good to take him in and get him sedated and if I do decide to get it done tomorrow it will be the last time. It cost me $180 to sedate him and get his nail clipped.

Durbkat · 10-11-2007, 04:40 PM

Have you tried a muzzle? That way he can't bite you and you can get the job done. I know its not a permant solution but its a cheaper one.

TeddieXRuxpin · 10-11-2007, 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Durbkat

Have you tried a muzzle? That way he can't bite you and you can get the job done. I know its not a permant solution but its a cheaper one.

Good news.

I took Teddie to a different vet and they directed me to a next door groomer. He took him back after we explained his temperament and 15 minutes later came out and said he was done.

That was the exact look that came over my face. He told me he was in deed really bad.

But he didn't use a muzzle and he just ignored Teddie's crying. Best of all I didn't have to sedate him again and my bill was only $7. I almost wanted to kiss him I was so happy. So I told him he had a new costumer for sure and that I'd be back. I'll take Teddie in every three weeks to get his nails trimmed. I think that made my whole month!

Durbkat · 10-11-2007, 05:13 PM

Well there was your problem, you had some little wuss groomers that stopped at the slightest sound from the dog.

Love's_Sophie · 10-11-2007, 05:14 PM

If you can, try and figure out a way to restrain Teddy so he can't reach you with his muzzle. I have a table that allows me to tie the dog forward if necessary as well as have him noosed regularly. If comes in handy for dogs who want to spin around and get at me!

I don't make a big deal out of 'foot work' either, I just pick up the foot and go to work; if he pulls and fusses I just keep my hold until he stops...I never say "it's okay, it's okay, it's okay!!!" to a dog that is griping about getting the job being done...if you have any fear, or anxiety in your voice the dog will wind up more anxious. He will also begin thinking that what he is doing (pulling) is what is okay, not that you want him to stop and stand still. And if you let go of his foot before he stops fighting, he will continue the behavior! The key to getting a dog over this kind of anxious behavior is to 'ignore it' and keep doing what you are doing until he stops struggling. Muzzle him if you must, and as he gets better, start removing it, because the muzzle can become a 'crutch' so to speak to good behavior...It's too bad that more groomers don't know these key points though, because dogs really feed off of 'ignorance'!!!! For example, I have a Yorkie mix that comes to see me; her owners were forced to find a new groomer because their previous groomer said she was too nasty to groom, especially her feet and nails. Well, I bathed her, as that is the first thing I do with most dogs, dried her, no problems. Went to finish her, and aside from a few mild grumbles from her about getting her nails done she gave me no problems what so ever...so much for nasty. I have done her a few times now too, and the last time I did her, she only grumbled on one foot, instead of all four, so she is learning quickly!

Durbkat · 10-11-2007, 05:20 PM

What should I do so I can easily clean Snoopy's eyes? Everytime I try he lunges at me and one time he left teeth marks! Most times I put his body under my arm and hold him down and then I take my right hand and hold his head and mouth shut and go to work. But he still manages to move around but I try to continue. So what should I do about that, just keep doing what I'm doing? He also does lots of flailing and growling when I put his back against my chest to comb his underside and when he does it I stop and wait till he stops then try again, should I just keep brushing and let him go when he stops moaning and growling?

Love's_Sophie · 10-19-2007, 10:57 PM

With little dogs with 'beards' I use that to 'hold' their face, instead of trying to hold their entire face, especially with those short nosed breeds like yours; If I must, I will even tie a bit of ribbon around their muzzle, to accomplish eye and bridge of nose hair trimming; seeing as you can't actually muzzle them to do these things...Lol!!! If at first he is really fighting your 'beard hold' just practice taking hold of his beard, and let him get used to you just holding it; you aren't yanking on it, or pulling it, you are just holding it, to keep his face still, like you would if you were holding his entire face; however, most dogs do not like their muzzles held, simply because it feels clausterphobic to them...I don't blame them, especially with little dogs; my hand is big compared to their little faces!

I haven't seen any 'updates' from his grooming appointment, how did that go??? Perhaps I missed it? I apologize if I did!!!

I really prefer to tie my dogs to groom them, no matter how good they are; even my own dogs I usually tie on the table; 'usually' that is...However, they aren't aggressive, they just don't always want to stand in the position I need them in!!!Lol! At home, I have a couple of tie rings set up; one is in my bathroom, in the tub, so home bathing is easier, if I have to bathe here in a pinch, and the other is in my living room, and is more of a rail, but it accomplishes the job, I need it to do. It keeps the dog's head up and forward, for body brushing (to keep it 'forward' you can guide the dog back by placing your hand between his back legs and supporting his abdomen and bringing him backward, then tell him 'stay'). When you work on his tummy, lift one back leg, and bring it back slightly, so you can see that side of his tummy, and brush; ignore his grumblings. If he is really squirrly, have someone hold him straight, by holding both sides of his face; not literally 'manholding' him, just having their hands there, and holding his collar so he can't flip around so much. Do the same for the other side.

For his eye cleaning, if the groomer shaved the bridge of his nose, that should help big time; I offer clients to be able to come in as needed to have the goopiness and hair shaved off between groomings, if they have difficulty doing it themselves; I don't charge for this, cause it takes 10 seconds to take a swipe down the nose, and clean out the eye area! Perhaps you could talk to the groomer about doing this? Also, keeping his ever growing top knot up and out of his eyes will help emmensely with the goopy eyes you may be experiencing, because then he won't be getting his eyes constantly brushed by hair, and he will also get adequate 'air' to keep his eye lining dry, instead of so goopy from the drainage. For puppies his age, I usually put two 'top knots' in...they look SUPER cute when they are done properly too...Lol!!! I also reset topknots for owners for nothing every week, as this two is a few second job when it is done regularly.

Durbkat · 10-19-2007, 11:09 PM

Oh, sorry. I posted pics in the pic forum awhile ago. They said he was wild and it took them 4 hours to do his face. And yes, they did shave the bridge of his nose and that has made a big difference. Now I don't even have to mess with his face. Here is some pics of it,

Here are some before pics,

Love's_Sophie · 10-19-2007, 11:43 PM

Ahh...I see the difference!!! Ha! He's really cute with 'eyes'...

FOUR HOURS to get his face done???? Hmmmmmm...that makes me wonder just how much they 'conjoled and begged' him to sit there for them...a puppy of 5-6 month of age should NOT take four hours to groom from start to finish even!!! What other trimming did they do?

Just curious on that one, cause I do feet, face, beard, ears, tail, etc...I basically even everything up and make them look nice...I mainly use a thinning shear, so it looks natural, but you can tell it's been done; Snoop doesn't look very 'finished' to my groomer's eye...

Lorina · 10-20-2007, 08:52 AM

This thread makes me really glad I have a dog with short facial hair.

Durbkat · 10-20-2007, 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Love's_Sophie

Ahh...I see the difference!!! Ha! He's really cute with 'eyes'...

FOUR HOURS to get his face done???? Hmmmmmm...that makes me wonder just how much they 'conjoled and begged' him to sit there for them...a puppy of 5-6 month of age should NOT take four hours to groom from start to finish even!!! What other trimming did they do?

Just curious on that one, cause I do feet, face, beard, ears, tail, etc...I basically even everything up and make them look nice...I mainly use a thinning shear, so it looks natural, but you can tell it's been done; Snoop doesn't look very 'finished' to my groomer's eye...

They trimmed his under side and thats it. All this did was his face and his underside, they didn't even trim his beard. They said that they didn't want to "stress him out" for his first time.

And can you believe they charged me $20 for what they did?

I mean I told them I wanted a whole body trim because he sheds alot and they were gonna charge $30 but I think they should have only charged $15 since they only did half the job.

007Dogs · 10-20-2007, 06:33 PM

I would not complain about paying $20. If I spent 4 hours on your dog, I would be charging you $80. I am assuming you got this dog as a puppy? If you would have started taking it to the groomer even to be brushed between 8-12 weeks of age, it would be more use to grooming and not put up such a fuss.
I tell people all the time, dogs LIE. This one woman told me her dog did not like to be brushed, that it cried, because it must hurt. All the while she is standing there tell me this I am brushing the dog. I told her the dog is lying to you, because she knows if she does this crying thing you will stop. If you just get them use to it, many will learn to enjoy being groomed. I know dogs that just strut after they are groomed.
One lady told me her dog was so depressed and I told her because the dog is embarrased of how it looks. It wants to be groomed and look pretty. After the dog was groomed, it acted like a totally different dog. She was amazed how his messy look effected his attitude.

Durbkat · 10-20-2007, 06:37 PM

Well she didn't really spend 4 hours on the dog because she was talking about how she was doing other dogs at the same time. So I'm sure anytime he jerked away or made a noise she stopped and went to a different dog. Plus I wouldn't want to get Snoopy sick just so he will be perfect for when he is older thats if he didn't get parvo.

007Dogs · 10-20-2007, 06:50 PM

Has Snoopy not has his vaccinations against parvo? He should have had at least 2 by this age. Parvo is passed through feeces, so unless he was eating another dogs poop at the grooming shop or walking in it an licking his feet, chances of a vaccinated getting it are pretty slim. As to my knowledge grooming does not cause Parvo, distemper, lepto, corona, rabies. Kennel cough would be the easiest to catch at the vets or grooming shop as it is airborne. If you are regularly taking him to the grooming shop I would get the injectable for kennel cough, not the nasal and wait at least two weeks after the booster before visiting anywhere he could be exposed to it.

Durbkat · 10-20-2007, 06:54 PM

No, he has had all his shots, I was talking about when he was 9 weeks. When he only had his first round of shots and he was prone to all kinds of diseases.

DivaDog · 10-21-2007, 06:18 PM

He doesnt need a sedative or two people to hold him.

He needs a gromer who knows what they are doing and has plenty of patience. Sedating him wont teach him good manners, only time and patience will do that.

Too many groomers are to damn quick to sedate rather than work through the problems. No dog should be sedated and it can be dangerous for any breed not just short nosed ones.

NorthernLights · 10-21-2007, 09:11 PM

I don't know how to ask this properly, so I'm just going to say it:

Are all shih Tzus nasty about grooming?

Orchid would never behave that way at anyone, regardless of where they where touching her.

Is it a breed thing or a socialization thing?

Durbkat · 10-21-2007, 09:17 PM

Well all the shih tzu's I know are that way, my grandma's friend has a shih tzu, the one who was given a sedative without permission, because the groomer didn't want to hassle with the dog.

Lorina · 10-22-2007, 07:45 AM

Most of the Shih Tzus I know are total dollbabies. I can't speak for grooming, but they're fine when I'm handlign them at the vets for things like anals, nails, bloodwork, fluid treatments, even draining a cyst.

Pekes and especially Lhasa Apsos don't have such good reputations, so much so that I've seen several very good-tempered Pekes and Lhasas described in rescue as having a "Shih Tzu personality."