[eightyf0ur]

Hello.

I have a serious problem. I have been to trainers, I have read books, I have tried EVERYTHING.. and don't say I didn't.. because you haven't read this post yet...

I have a 4 year old Lab/CHOW mix. He's gorgeous. Wonderful with people. Gentle, loving, caring. His name is Max.

BUT MAX WILL NOT STOP POOPING IN THE HOUSE.

It began to be just a random thing. I'd find a poop somewhere in the house.. point to it.. the dog would acknowledge his mess and then turn and avoid me. I have two dogs, mind you.. so telling the poops apart is a task.

There was no negative punishment at that point because it had happened too long ago to help the dog relate or understand.

I let it go. Walked my dogs as normal.. 2-3 times a day.. fed them on a normal schedule with vet-suggested amounts. Provided adequate water and vitamins on a weekly basis. (Just to give you a little insight.)

Then it began to happen more often. I'd get home from work (mind you, I'd walk them before I left).. and heres piles of poop in the house. Upstairs, downstairs. Kitchen, living room.

EVERYWHERE.

Urine puddles.

EVERYWHERE.

- - - - - - - - - -

It began to get much worse.

I'd leave for 5 minutes and he'd go before I got back.

Mind you, when I walk him he IS going to the bathroom.. in large enough amounts where one would think that there would be nothing left in there... NOPE!

I took him to the vet, had at least 20 blood and health tests done. I was worried maybe he was sick, or incontinent...

nothing. Perfectly healthy.

The vet suggested go back to crate training.

OK.

I buy a crate. Just the right size. He can sit down and stand comfortably, and turn around.. but not big enough to poop on one side and sleep on the other.

Max doesnt poop in the crate... but Max wants out of the crate.

He wants OUT so bad that he pushes and slams his face so hard into the edges of the crate trying to get out leaving bloody marks all over his muzzle.

I'd rather have crap all over my house than to put max in pain or see him do that to himself. So I got rid of the crate...

A week later.. I walk Max more often (6 to 7 times a day). Max goes less in the house... but that was just a fluke.

Then it began to be upstairs more often.. on my carpet.

The carpet was cleaned at least 11 to 15 times to get the stains and smell out. Finally back to new.

And then back to piles of poop again.. this time a little more loose.. ruining my carpet.

Now all the dog mess is completely upstairs.. no more downstairs. (I know.. I know.. dogs wont poop in their domain so they go somewhere else to do it.. Yeah yeah.)

I put up a baby gate at the entrance to the stairs.

He jumps it.

I put it higher.

He jumps it.

I put it higher.

He knocks it down.

Theres a bathroom to the right of the stairs.. I open the door so it blocks off the entire stairwell except for a 7 inch gap. Max pushes the door aside....

AND POOPS UPSTAIRS.

I put a latch and hook to keep the door from moving. Max SQUEEEEZES inbetween the door and the wall... poops and pees upstairs and comes back down and squeezes out.

May I also note that Max only poops in front of bedroom and bathroom doors.. nowhere else. Just in front of doors. Pinpoint..spot on.

So I add a 3 inch piece of plywood to make the gap between the wall and the door smaller.

He squeezes half way in, gets stuck, and DIGS to get out, tearing the carpet off my stairs in shreds everywhere.

So now the upstairs carpet is ruined, and so are the stairs.

I bring Max to a trainer. The trainer comes to the house. The trainer tells me she can fix any dog.

Needless to say, the trainer left 5 hours later telling me to get a SHOCK COLLAR because Max is ridiculously stubborn.

I got a second opinion from a different trainer.

Same thing.

Max doesnt listen. Max doesnt care.. Max needs to be shocked when he approaches the stairs so he learns not to go up there.

I tried this verbally instead of using a collar to deter him.. sitting there waiting for him to approach the stairs and telling him no.

I tried also when I caught him in the act of peeing or pooping.. giving him a firm NO and a scolding face (worked for my other dog).. nothing.

When the trainers asked me what I was doing with the dog.. and I told them.. they all said I was doing the right things to get him back on track.

So I buy the shock collar.

First time Max tried to go upstairs... ZAP!

Max got the idea.

It gives a warning beep before you get too close.

Not even 2 days later, after several battery replacements.. Max now hurdles and jumps past the entrace to the stairs, getting out of range of the shock collar.

Yeah. I returned that real quick.

So now.. I decide to put paper down.

I give up..

I figure if I cant beat this game.. I'll play along. Easier cleanup for me.

It is my very last thought to ever put Max up for adoption. I adopted him a year ago and I refuse to give him up over this. I just want it to end!

So now the paper is on the floor...

Max avoids the paper.

Max pees on the clean tile floor.

Max goes upstairs, digs holes in the carpet and pees in them.

Poops in them.

I tear up the carpet upstairs, refinish the floor underneath.

Max goes up, pees and poops.

SOMEONE.

PLEASE HELP ME.

PLEASE.

[tirluc]

personally, i'd go back to the crate......don't know if you had a wire or plastic, but i'd reinvest in a good plastic crate and use it.....you may need to reinforce where the screws go to make sure he can't break out......

another thing that you could try, since he only goes upstairs, is Scat Mats on the stairwell....put them up the stairs further then he can jump, and make sure they go rail to wall.....

but the biggest thing that you have to do is STICK W/ WHATEVER YOU USE....until he gets the idea.....

the only other option is he goes outside and stays outside (which i personally don't like outside dogs.......)

this is PROBABLY the very reason that the old owners got rid of/dumped him.....

i hope this or someone else here helps......

[Alpha]

I agree tirluc with sticking with a method at least for two weeks before moving on. If you change it up, you'll never really see any benefit, most of the time if you just would've stuck with one of those methods a little longer you might see a small positive result. A little longer, some more results and so on and so forth.

I would also go back to crating. If he's not deficating/urinating in his crate, than it's clear he CAN hold it. Either crating, or if your not comfortable with that, proofing a small room even is better than just free roam.

Do you reward when he goes outside?

Correcting, even just verbally is on a very minute part of housebreaking. REWARD is the biggest most important. Make a HUGE deal when he does go outside. Whoop, holler praise and a jackpot of treats. Make going poo outside the BEST THING IN THE WORLD! So much so that he'll hold it until you come home so he can go outside and get treats and praise. Reserve the BEST treat for only going outside.

Crating, or a small room won't fix the problem but it will make clean up a lot easier at least. IMO, rewarding for going outside is going to be the biggest factor.

I'm glad you haven't given up, and kudos to you for trying all of those methods. Good luck

[RonE]

I have tried EVERYTHING.. and don't say I didn't.. because you haven't read this post yet...

I have to admit it sounds like you've tried everything, but if you truly believe that and you think the dog is untrainable, what's the point of this thread?

I can't count the number of times I wanted to give up on my two teens. I wanted to say, "I quit!" or "You're fired!" (and they weren't particularly bad kids.) But you're not allowed to give up. Ever.

You're not allowed to give up on a dog, either, and I truly hope that others will have some suggestions for you (in addition to Triluc's ideas.)

Good luck to you.

[LeRoymydog]

LeRoy does the same thing in my house- but only when we leave. I seriously think it's some type of anxiety disorder.

Try spraying the spot Max pees and poops in with a mixture of vinegar and water. Youre house will smell like vinegar for awhile, but it's better than poop.

[luv4gsds]

How long has this been going on with Max pottying in the house?

What are you feeding Max? The reason I asked this question is because you said he poops large amounts. If you are feeding him kibble sometimes when a dog is fed a certain type of kibble that doesn't agree with the digestive system a dog will poop in large amounts and more then a couple of times in a day.

Ones a dog goes potty in the house (that as if the dog has no medical problems) you have to start right back to square one with potty training and you have to keep it up. I would get a different type of crate for Max and start crating him until you get this under control. Because from what I have read so far he is not confined while you are gone, you cannot control the pottying in the house if you are not home to see it happening. And since he will not potty in a crate that is a good start in getting control of this issue.

[Cassie Nova]

I thought the same thing as luv4gsds. What are you feeding?

Also, I agree with tirluc. You have to do the same thing for at least two weeks to see results. Don't get discouraged if he regresses a little- it's normal.

And last but not least- don't say your dog is untrainable. Think positive! You sound like you have done EVERYTHING and I certainly believe you and know this can be frustrating, but think positive! It'll help more than anything.

[Jen D]

I would also try the crate again give him toys and chews while in there, making it a good thing. When out of the crate I would tie the dog to me so I know where he is all the time. Good luck

[threedognite]

As a dog trainer myself, I agree with Luv4GSDs. The food you are feeding Max is more than likely the culprit here along with the fact that Max is pooping all over the place. I truly believe that once he did his business upstairs, he continued going back to his scent and there really isn't much you can do to get rid of that. You can try using an odor enzyme.
Crating Max is going to be your best help even if he bangs his head against it. If you still have the E collar, put it on Max while he's in the crate. When he starts the head banging, give him a mild stimulation and say "NO". If he stops, give him a little yummy treat. Continue doing this until the crazy behavior stops. I really believe his previous owners got fed up with his bad behavior and gave him up. I feel for you and I really hope you find a solution to this issue. Have you considered a behavioral specialist? Not for you, for Max. ;-)

[Curbside Prophet]

Originally Posted by threedognite

As a dog trainer myself...

If you still have the E collar, put it on Max while he's in the crate. When he starts the head banging, give him a mild stimulation and say "NO".

[Jen D]

It sound like your dog needs positive training! If you put an e-collar on that dog in a crate you will never get it crate trained.

[ToysHaveMyHeart]

Do you free feed (leave the food out)? With all of the pooping in the house, it made me think of that. I tried free feeding my housetrained dogs and they would would have bowel movements at least five times a day (this only happened after the change, everything returned to normal after I stopped). A food with a lot of fillers and eating too much can also have this affect.

Also, putting an e-collar on a dog to crate train it is a bad idea, especially if he bangs his head on the crate. Shocking him is not going to calm him down.

[Inga]

God Bless you for keeping up with Max. A lot of people would have given up on him or worse already. I agree with the scat mat idea. It sounded like the shock collar kind of worked, but who has time to sit and watch the steps until the dog decides to go up. The scat mats will cost a little but much less than new carpet. Good Luck. Some day you will look back and laugh. I hope.

[cshellenberger]

Go back to the crate, be sure you have several XL kongs filled with peanut butter, kibble or apple sauce kibble mix and frozen. The kongs will sooth him and reduce the anxiety by giving him something to chew on. You also want to start crateing for only a short time and build up, this will help him understand this is not a punishment, but a good time for him.

DO NOT use an Ecollar in the crate, it will give a negative association and, if this is anxiety based, make it WORSE. You may need to medicate if you suspect strong separation anxiety (which this sounds like to me).

[luv4gsds]

It is weird to me how this person started this thread on the 12th and was here on the 13th but did not respond to anyone that answered to their thread.

[skelaki]

Also, start giving him a treat for going into the crate. Give it through the rear of the crate. All praise and/or treats should be for going in and being good while in the crate, not for exiting. And, have a special crate only chew such as a kong stuffed with kibble and peanut butter and frozen.

[RonE]

Originally Posted by luv4gsds

It is weird to me how this person started this thread on the 12th and was here on the 13th but did not respond to anyone that answered to their thread.

I think the OP has left the building.

[eightyf0ur]

I'm still here. Still reading, still trying. I work too much to sit down and write a response right away. I've been absorbing the things you've been advising. Expect a post from me probably tommorow with responses.

[davehamilton]

Have you tried to give him meds for anxiety or to calm him down for a few hours. Just a thought.

[Amaya-Mazie-Marley]

Are you crazy? Put at e-collar on a dog who already hates the crate?!? I would NOT do that. Its going to make the dog have even more problems with the crate.