[Ðanisty]

I'm having lots of problems with my lab-mix right now and I'm hoping to get some good advice here.

I think there are two possible factors to Ziggy's current problems and it may be a combination of both of them. First of all, let me say that Ziggy was never a perfect dog. We had a lot of chewing issues with him and he was in constant competition with our other dog even though the other dog never really competed with him. He's very energetic. He's also had some problems with going potty in the house and getting out of the backyard (even though it's fenced). Ziggy was always a mama's boy. He latched on to me really quick. Valkyrie, on the other hand was much closer to my husband. About 3 months ago, we had to put Valkyrie to sleep (she was a senior dog). This, unfortunately, coincided with my husband leaving for basic training. Valkyrie was put to sleep only a week before my husband left. We didn't notice much change in Ziggy's behavior in that week. After my husband left, he spent about a week pacing and looking around. Then the strangest thing happened. He became a better dog. He never messed in the house, he stopped running away, and he was much, much calmer. I was amazed and very pleased. I left for a few days to go to hubby's graduation. I had my friend come over everyday and take care of Ziggy. I called my friend regularly and apparently Ziggy was doing fine...until I got home. Now he's completely changed again. He's getting out of the yard and being very defiant. When I call him, he just stares at me like I'm a moron. He no longer snuggles with me on the couch although he still sleeps at my feet at night. He's started getting really demanding. If I feed the cat before I feed him he "yells" at me. If I leave the house even for an hour, he cries while I'm gone. Then he jumps up on me and won't leave me alone when I get home. Mom and I have noticed that he only does that to women. It's totally schizophrenic. I can't tell if he loves me or resents me. I'm afraid Ziggy thinks he's the man of the house now.

Also, this dog will NOT walk or do anything else on a lead. As soon as I attach the lead, he sits down and digs his heels and and will not move. He's always been this way. The way it looks right now, I can't keep this dog! How can I move into military housing with a dog that wets on the floor, escapes the back yard, won't walk on a lead and whines all day? I'm starting to wonder if Ziggy and I are just mismatched and he'd be happier on some large farm in the country where he can act like a fool and nobody will care.

I'm certain part of the problem I'm having with Ziggy is that I was totally spoiled by Valkyrie's incredible behavior. She never needed any training at all for anything. She always did exactly what we wanted. She was calm indoors, well-behaved outside. I'm thinking a good bit of this was her breed. She was a collie. I'm afraid I totally lack the skills to deal with Ziggy.

Additionally, I'm really wanting to get a second dog. I've thought that Ziggy might be missing the companionship of having another dog around. I'm just not sure if this would help straighten Ziggy out or make him worse (or worst-case scenario, make my new dog behave badly). I'm curious if the sex of the new dog will matter in this case? Will it be better to get a female so there's possibly less competition? Will the breed matter? I'm strongly considering adopting a retired greyhound.

[Curbside Prophet]

If it were me, I wouldn't consider getting another dog until I could form this dog they way I want him to be. Everything you described all sounds normal to me for a dog that isn't getting enough attention. When I say attention, I mean structured activities to help form his mind and body.

1. How old is this dog now?
2. Where did you get him from and how old was he?
3. Has he had any formal training?
4. Do you practice NILIF?
5. What's his daily schedule like?
6. What exactly do you want from this dog?

Being a military wife, I'm certain you have the skills to deal with Ziggy, you just may need a better understanding on how to use your skills. If you answer the questions above, I'm sure we can offer some help.

Welcome to our forum!

[Ðanisty]

Originally Posted by Curbside Prophet

If it were me, I wouldn't consider getting another dog until I could form this dog they way I want him to be. Everything you described all sounds normal to me for a dog that isn't getting enough attention. When I say attention, I mean structured activities to help form his mind and body.

I think I really don't know how to do that...lol. I'm not saying I can't, but I'm totally lacking the skills. Like I said, our collie always did everything we wanted without us really having to try at it. I think I need to be reprogrammed. I do give him attention, but apparently it's the wrong kind for this dog.

1. How old is this dog now?
Ziggy's two years old

2. Where did you get him from and how old was he?
He was found by the survey crew at the engineering firm I was working at. They found him in a drainpipe with 2 other puppies. I'm not certain exactly how old he was, but my guess by his size would be about 2 months.

3. Has he had any formal training?
No, I've never taken any dog for formal training. I wouldn't even know where to begin to look or how to find a good trainer or school.

4. Do you practice NILIF?
I've never heard of this before, but I just did some reading. I will try implementing this right away.

5. What's his daily schedule like?
It's sort of screwed up at the moment since I can't get him to behave. He would have a lot more playtime if I could trust him to not run off and if I could get him to come back to me when I call him. He goes outside at least 4 times a day for both play and potty, but if I don't keep the sessions short, he runs off.

6. What exactly do you want from this dog?
I want a dog that will not act like a raving lunatic when I have company over. I want a dog that I don't have to fight on a leash because where we end up might not have a fenced yard (not that it seems to stop him). Mostly I want him to keep me company and make me feel at ease enough to sleep at night. Before my husband joined the Army, the longest we'd ever been apart was about a week. I'd like my dog to make me feel less alone without stressing me out. I'm not working and even if I start working, it will likely only be part-time, but right now, if I even leave for an hour he goes crazy. I'm starting to dread coming home because I know what I'll be greeted with.

Being a military wife, I'm certain you have the skills to deal with Ziggy, you just may need a better understanding on how to use your skills. If you answer the questions above, I'm sure we can offer some help.

I've only been a military wife for 3 months...lol. I'm not certain of those skills yet either.

The hard part about this is that Ziggy just sort of fell into our laps. We were looking to get a dog and I like the idea of giving a home to a dog in need. However, if I had gone out of my way to pick a dog, I'm not sure I would have picked him. I'm really more of a mellow laid-back kind of person. I'm not sure what's in him other than lab.

[Curbside Prophet]

No job! Perfect! Training this dog will be your job. There's a lot that needs to take place here, and we almost need to start from zero, as if he were a puppy again. If I said he's been left alone to his own devices for the past two years, would that be an accurate statement?

What I know about dogs is that they are innocently selfish, and if you don't spend the time to form their behaviors, they will form them on their own, and to us it can seem as if they are crazy. And since your dog has gone a long time this way, you've got a lot of hard work ahead of you. Are you up for it?

Again, unless you want two dogs that act the same, you need to train them both to act the same. Imagine having two dogs as crazy as yours. Would you want a second dog then?

So yes, you're dog needs NILIF, especially at feeding time. I would, at this point, hand feed every meal to him. Don't look at me funny! This is the opportunity you have to train him, so train him. Teach him "take it", teach him "leave it", work on "sit", "down", and "stay". Add new behaviors like "stand". Go to expertvillage.com and search for "teach a dog sit", and you'll get a bunch of videos from trainers on how to train basic obedience. I'd recommend you do this when your dog is hungry and motivated.

Do you have a crate? I would use it while your home when you need a short break from him. Teach him the crate is a happy place by offering him a stuffed frozen Kong.

What do you do when he "yells" at you? What ever you're doing, stop it, and ignore him instead. Ostracism can be an effective punishment for attention seeking behavior. The trick is to follow it up with praise the moment your dog is behaving as you hope him to, and repeating the process every time.

Is he an indoor or outdoor dog while you're away from the home? Is he tied-out?

Exercise: I'm sure you've heard the expression "a tired dog is a good dog." Well, a tired dog is a better dog, that much I know is true. So in the morning and in the evening I would walk your dog for at least 30 minutes. SOme dogs need more, and some dogs need less. If he's sleeping through the night, that's a good sign you're on the right track. There's a thread on loose leash walking at the top of this forum. You'll need to train that too.

Another tip: If you catch him in the act of doing something appropriate, on his own, praise him. Praise him for sitting, praise him for lying down, Praise him for being quiet.

The behaving around guests part you'll have to work on later, once you've noticed some improvement from your efforts.

Is there anything in this that sounds like you can't handle?

Finally for now, I'd recommend you pick up a copy of Jean Donaldson's book The Culture Clash or Dr. Ian Dunbar's book How To Teach A New Dog Old Tricks.

[Ðanisty]

Originally Posted by Curbside Prophet

No job! Perfect! Training this dog will be your job. There's a lot that needs to take place here, and we almost need to start from zero, as if he were a puppy again. If I said he's been left alone to his own devices for the past two years, would that be an accurate statement?

Mostly, yes. It's been a rough two years as well. The first year I had a job that required ridiculous amounts of overtime. Then I was unemployed for awhile and then was back at work again. It's been a nightmare. Right now I have the time and this is why I'm here right now.

What I know about dogs is that they are innocently selfish, and if you don't spend the time to form their behaviors, they will form them on their own, and to us it can seem as if they are crazy. And since your dog has gone a long time this way, you've got a lot of hard work ahead of you. Are you up for it?

I'm certainly willing to give it a try. If I wasn't, I wouldn't be here...lol.

Again, unless you want two dogs that act the same, you need to train them both to act the same. Imagine having two dogs as crazy as yours. Would you want a second dog then?

No, I don't want any dogs that act like Ziggy...lol. I do tend to think dogs are happier when they've got dog company though. I'm just not sure at what point it would be okay to get the other dog...lol. How will I know when Ziggy is far enough a long that he won't teach the other dog bad behavior?

So yes, you're dog needs NILIF, especially at feeding time. I would, at this point, hand feed every meal to him. Don't look at me funny! This is the opportunity you have to train him, so train him. Teach him "take it", teach him "leave it", work on "sit", "down", and "stay". Add new behaviors like "stand". Go to expertvillage.com and search for "teach a dog sit", and you'll get a bunch of videos from trainers on how to train basic obedience. I'd recommend you do this when your dog is hungry and motivated.

How do you mean hand feed?

Do you have a crate? I would use it while your home when you need a short break from him. Teach him the crate is a happy place by offering him a stuffed frozen Kong.

I don't have a crate, but I could get one. While I've never tried the crate thing, I've never been a real big fan of the idea, mostly because I live in a small house and a crate would take up a lot of space.

What do you do when he "yells" at you? What ever you're doing, stop it, and ignore him instead. Ostracism can be an effective punishment for attention seeking behavior. The trick is to follow it up with praise the moment your dog is behaving as you hope him to, and repeating the process every time.

It's usually followed by me saying "dammit Ziggy!" It's very frustrating as he tends to get under my feet or try to block me.

Is he an indoor or outdoor dog while you're away from the home? Is he tied-out?

He's an indoor dog. He's never been tied to anything. If I were to leave him outside, I would have to tie him to something to keep him from running off though. Honestly, I've never been comfortable with the idea of leaving a dog outside while I'm gone. What if it rains?

Exercise: I'm sure you've heard the expression "a tired dog is a good dog." Well, a tired dog is a better dog, that much I know is true. So in the morning and in the evening I would walk your dog for at least 30 minutes. SOme dogs need more, and some dogs need less. If he's sleeping through the night, that's a good sign you're on the right track. There's a thread on loose leash walking at the top of this forum. You'll need to train that too.

I'll have to get him to actually move on a leash first. As soon as I get the leash on him, he sits down, digs in, and will not budge. Do you think a harness would work better? If I could get him to walk with me on a leash I'd gladly walk him everyday. I need the exercise anyway as I'm trying to lose a lot of weight.

Another tip: If you catch him in the act of doing something appropriate, on his own, praise him. Praise him for sitting, praise him for lying down, Praise him for being quiet.

What if that praise gets him excited and rowdy?

Finally for now, I'd recommend you pick up a copy of Jean Donaldson's book The Culture Clash or Dr. Ian Dunbar's book How To Teach A New Dog Old Tricks.

I'll look for them when I'm in town this week. Thanks a bunch.

[Curbside Prophet]

Originally Posted by Ðanisty

How will I know when Ziggy is far enough a long that he won't teach the other dog bad behavior?

Two of three things or all three... 1) Your dog's behavior is at a level that's acceptable to you. 2) You feel like understand what your dog needs to be stable. or 3) You have twice as much energy to shape the behavior or 2 dogs.

How do you mean hand feed?

Assuming you feed kibble, I mean taking 4 or 5 five pieces of kibble at a time, asking for a "sit", lure him with the food if you need to, say "yes" as the dog's butt hits the ground, and hand him the kibble immediately for sitting. Repeat with another command, or for any progress with a newly taught behavior. You may not want to do this with his whole meal, but I would not free feed him for a long while. Stick any unused portion of his food in a Kong, Twist-n-treat, or Buster Cube and make him work for it. As he uses his mind to solve puzzles like this, he'll be burning off energy.

It's usually followed by me saying "dammit Ziggy!" It's very frustrating as he tends to get under my feet or try to block me.

Just cross your arms and look away to ignore him. If he does something acceptable after that ignore him. One thing I forgot to mention that you should take into considersation is that his behavior will get worse before it gets better, especially now that you're trying to modify it. This is known as an extinction burst. Basically, your dog will try harder for the reward (attention) until he gets a response. But you're not going to give it to him, correct? So eventually, he won't try as hard, but that's when you need to show him what will earn your attention...like sitting politely.

I'll have to get him to actually move on a leash first. As soon as I get the leash on him, he sits down, digs in, and will not budge. Do you think a harness would work better? If I could get him to walk with me on a leash I'd gladly walk him everyday. I need the exercise anyway as I'm trying to lose a lot of weight.

He may need to start out with the leash by dragging it around the house. If he wants to dig his feet in, fine, just ignore him. He'll eventually move dragging the leash. Reward him for that. Then move to picking up the lead for a few feet, and reward him for that. Baby steps until you can get him out into the yard without a fuss.

What if that praise gets him excited and rowdy?

Say nothing and toss him a treat, or give him a milder form of praise like a "good doggie". I can see teaching him a long down-stay will be very beneficial to you, lol. ClickerSolutions Training Treasures -- Rewarding Non-Behavior

[Mdawn]

All of the advice given is right on the mark. I have a Black Lab who drives me nuts most of the time also. Although, I don't think that my boy Eddie is as far gone as your Ziggy sounds. It sounds to me like all your dog needs is training. I've trained with Eddie up until now and he has done fairly well. I FINALLY managed to get him to stop chasing cats, thank goodness. As for the rest, I think I going to take him to obedience school. Is obedience school or a dog trainer a option for you? I definitely don't think that getting another dog would be a good idea right now, in my opinion. My reason for this is that Ziggy needs your attention right now when it comes to learning how to behave. Throwing another dog into the mix could hinder that process. We just recently added another dog to household, but only after Eddie learned to calm down to some extent. Also, I'd like to share some advice with you that I recieved on the this forum when I first came here looking for answers: EXERCISE, EXERCISE, EXERCISE! A tired dog is a good dog! That one adjustment in our schedule made a HUGE amount of difference alone.

Good luck!

[Ðanisty]

I just wanted to say that NILIF is amazing! Ziggy still has a long way to go, but just in a few days I've got him calmed down for eating his meals and he comes back inside when I call him. I haven't let him do anything without sitting first...lol. I haven't even used one verbal reprimand. The one thing I've noticed though (and an article I read said this is normal, but I want to make sure), is that when he approaches me now, he does so with his head hanging a little lower. He isn't shy and doesn't pull away when I pet him. He's just more...humble, I guess would be a good word. Does this sound right to you guys? It can't be that he's afraid of me because he started snuggling with me again.

I'm gonna start the leash stuff as soon as he's got a good, clear idea of the new me that's gonna make him do what I want.

[RedyreRottweilers]

Some resources for you in your area:

Animal Behaviour Concepts
Savannah, GA 31406
(912) 354-2790

Savannah Kennel Club
http://www.savannahkennelclub.org/

Canine Education Ctr
912-495-9655 • 2900 Capital St # F, Savannah,GA 31404

My opinion, this dog is bored out of it's skull, and needs MUCH more daily exercise than it is getting.

Try the people listed above. Get in a class. Teach your dog to walk on lead, and then get on a bike, and get this dog trotting.



The other advice I would give you is this:

write this down and read it every day:

DOGS DO WHAT WORKS FOR THEM.

HOw many dogs have you ever had to train to stare at you while you are eating? It works for them NOW AND THEN. So they will stare at you forever while you are eating if you allow them to.

So take this concept and make it work for you.

Step one, get some treats, and have some in each hand. You can use a clicker for this exercise to mark the behavior you are looking for, or you can use your voice. I say YES! when dog gets something right. Some people say CLICK. So get the treats, and show the dog you have them in each hand. Let him sniff your closed hand.

Then stand there, and say your marker word (I will use YES as the example). So show him the food, say YES!! in a happy tone, and give him a treat. ONe from each hand. Do this about 10 times. So now, the dog is understanding that YES means a treat is coming. Each time you mark a behavior you want with the word yes, a treat MUST follow. (very important)

So, now you have the dog understanding that suddenly you are a treat machine.

Get more treats, some in each hand, show the dog, and then just stand there with your hands down at your side, watching the dog. Say nothing. Do nothing. Ignore him if he sniffs, nudges, nibbles, etc. Just wait. Eventually the dog will look you in the eye.

The SECOND he does, you say YES!!! then give him several treats, some from each hand as you verbally praise hm.

Then stand up again and wait. Guaranteed he will look faster this time. the SECOND he looks, SMILE, and say YES!! and treat.

You can play this as long as he wants to play. This is called shaping a behavior. You have trained your dog to look at you for food. Your dog thinks he has trained you to feed him when he looks at you. Most dogs will quickly begin deliberately offering you eye contact once they figure out how this game works.

It works with many other behaviors as well, and it's simple to shape the dog in different ways. Reward for longer looks. Reward for looking at you when he's at your left side. Etc.

More information on how to help your dog be a willing joyful participant in training can be found here:

http://www.clickersolutions.com/

and here

http://www.clickertraining.com/

[Dieselsmama]

Originally Posted by Ðanisty

I just wanted to say that NILIF is amazing! Ziggy still has a long way to go, but just in a few days I've got him calmed down for eating his meals and he comes back inside when I call him. I haven't let him do anything without sitting first...lol. I haven't even used one verbal reprimand. The one thing I've noticed though (and an article I read said this is normal, but I want to make sure), is that when he approaches me now, he does so with his head hanging a little lower. He isn't shy and doesn't pull away when I pet him. He's just more...humble, I guess would be a good word. Does this sound right to you guys? It can't be that he's afraid of me because he started snuggling with me again.

I'm gonna start the leash stuff as soon as he's got a good, clear idea of the new me that's gonna make him do what I want.

Excellent, sounds like you two are off to a great start. I just wanted to add in my two cents on the second dog idea. It seems like there have been many major changes/upheavals in your lives of late, and maybe it would be a good idea to not only wait till Ziggy is on the right track training wise but also that your lives are a bit more stable. Whenever you do decide to get another, if your husband is still absent, make certain you do lots and lots of socializing with men, I'm sure the return of your husband will be much smoother this way. Ummm quick edit here, I meant socializing your dog with men, not yourself ***snort***

[Ðanisty]

Originally Posted by Dieselsmama

Excellent, sounds like you two are off to a great start.

I'm feeling really good about it...lol.

I just wanted to add in my two cents on the second dog idea. It seems like there have been many major changes/upheavals in your lives of late, and maybe it would be a good idea to not only wait till Ziggy is on the right track training wise but also that your lives are a bit more stable. Whenever you do decide to get another, if your husband is still absent, make certain you do lots and lots of socializing with men, I'm sure the return of your husband will be much smoother this way. Ummm quick edit here, I meant socializing your dog with men, not yourself ***snort***

Lol! I'm going to keep doing what I'm doing for awhile before I get another dog (I do still plan to get one though. I want to adopt a greyhound). Socializing with men shouldn't be a problem. Most of my friends are men...so I guess I'll be doing a lot of socializing with men too, but in that appropriate way.