E-collar Training Update

SunSiberians · 05-22-2007, 08:27 PM

I thought I'd give everyone an update occassionally on our e-collar training , since it's such a controversial topic. Trust me, before I did this I was extremely nervous, but through a lot of research and talking with trainers and owners that use the collar, I did come to the conclusion that it was the best method to train Lakota...Kapu will be trained in a more traditional way since he always wants to please me.

Lakota and I went to our first group session. It was really casual, but an enjoyable setting in the park. There were seven students in total and two trainers. One trainer worked with the more experienced dogs and the other worked with the newbies - she was a fantastic trainer and really helped me to understand the method. It is actually important that the dog already know basic commands.
This is how the collars are used:
First, the handler tells the dog the command, let's say sit.
Then they activate the collar (I always use the lowest setting).
As soon as the dog sits then the collar is turned off.
Eventually the dog will realize that he can avoid the process all together by just sitting immediatly. I am shocked how fast Lakota has discovered this, and in our hour and a half group session I only had to use it a couple of times. I honestly like not having to use it, but I like having that security - "that just in case," for emergancies only.
The trainer also explained that during the training process, it is vital that the dog only be worked with when the collar is on. If not, then the dog will realize that he/she only has to pay attention and obey when the collar is on. I have also been allowing Lakota to wear the collar on our walks - even though I don't use it, just so he doesn't always associate it with training.
So far, so good.

Ginny01OT · 05-22-2007, 08:34 PM

I did e-collar training too and I thought it was great, it has worked wonderfully for off-leash training.

SunSiberians · 05-22-2007, 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ginny01OT

I did e-collar training too and I thought it was great, it has worked wonderfully for off-leash training.

Yes, that is my goal! An off leash Siberian Husky - some say it can't be done, but I beg to differ, lol.

Is that the same method you used? Any tips/advice or concerns?
Thanks

borzoimom · 05-24-2007, 07:37 PM

I am just going to mention this for sighthound owners. A E collar should never be used on a sighthound. First of all, you can not stop the bolt if off lead. Second- the training process to teach the collar will make the dog highly neurotic behavior. You can NOT turn off 5000 years of instinct to chase..
also the collar should never be bought out of frustration. NO training method should be used in frustration.. Thats all I am going to say- Thank you..

sheplovr · 05-24-2007, 08:22 PM

I respect your thoughts on E-collar training Michelle, but it does work without pain just a jab. It is not electric but run by batterys. It is harmless and if you have a dog to train that is kinda unruly it is the most humane way to go. I have expensive Shepherds, it worked on a couple some years back, in seconds it saved them from almost destruction on the road to safety at home in the yard.
Trust me it only stings harmless but gets the dogs attention when we yell and mean little to some dogs. Hounds or not it works, Try it honey.

Curbside Prophet · 05-24-2007, 08:36 PM

I've stuck a 9 volt battery to my tongue, no thank you, I don't need to try it again. I'm being difficult btw. However, I'm certain Sun's not doing this out of frustration too.

borzoimom · 05-24-2007, 09:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sheplovr

I respect your thoughts on E-collar training Michelle, but it does work without pain just a jab. It is not electric but run by batterys. It is harmless and if you have a dog to train that is kinda unruly it is the most humane way to go. I have expensive Shepherds, it worked on a couple some years back, in seconds it saved them from almost destruction on the road to safety at home in the yard.
Trust me it only stings harmless but gets the dogs attention when we yell and mean little to some dogs. Hounds or not it works, Try it honey.

I understand sheplovr.. The problem with sighthounds is that they have no body fat and it hits right into the muscle. I would bet people with any other breed would not realize how little body fat they have. I know I didnt with my first..
Its strange with sighthounds- although some things are common like "normal dogs" but so much is different. And as you know, you are talking to a person that NEVER would have thought so before owning one. Even pregancys are different. Its odd..
You are always a dear friend. and I love reading your posts..

threedognite · 05-25-2007, 08:06 AM

I firmly believe in E-collar training. I have a really good one and use it on my brattiest dog. She is very dominant and pushy even with the collar on but I don't have to use the stimulation button, I use the pager button so all she gets is a vibration. I use the collar mostly to 'snap' her out of what she is focusing on at the time, usually jumping on my other two dogs to dominate them or when she's trying to take away a toy or chewie from the others.
Many people don't realize that they must condition the dog to wear this collar. I have a dummy collar that I trained her with just so she didn't know which collar she was wearing at the time. I don't agree with the person who said the dog only gets trained while wearing the collar. I don't want my dog to know she is wearing the E collar, I want her to know that the vibration or stimulation I give her comes from ME and not the collar.

SunSiberians · 05-25-2007, 08:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by borzoimom

I understand sheplovr.. The problem with sighthounds is that they have no body fat and it hits right into the muscle. I would bet people with any other breed would not realize how little body fat they have. I know I didnt with my first..
Its strange with sighthounds- although some things are common like "normal dogs" but so much is different. And as you know, you are talking to a person that NEVER would have thought so before owning one. Even pregancys are different. Its odd..
You are always a dear friend. and I love reading your posts..

I can definately see how that would be aweful. I also would have to add that I don't suggest using the collar on a dog that is constantly anxious or frightened - I imagine they would react poorly to this method.

However, I also agree that in some cases it is an important tool and can be beneficial. Lakota has been through two obedience training classes - in fact, he knows all the commands but he's stubborn and very free willed so most of the time he doesn't want to do them and having a pocket full of treats or a mouth full of praise isn't going to pursuade him other wise - so I have discovered that this is the best method for me to use on him and he's responding brilliantly to it. I would never do it out of frustration - actually this method calms me down - I never have to yell or repeat the commands over and over - I just say them once and tada - he does it!
I still do not plan to use it on my other dog Kapu because he tends to scare easily and I'm worried it may mess him up. Kapu will be getting lots of lessons in good ole fashioned obedience training and agility!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Curbside Prophet

I've stuck a 9 volt battery to my tongue, no thank you, I don't need to try it again. I'm being difficult btw. However, I'm certain Sun's not doing this out of frustration too.

Haha, I've always wanted to do that, just to see how it feels...but I always chicken out in the end. >.< Curiousity is not going to kill this cat.

borzoimom · 05-25-2007, 08:15 AM

Here is a video of what would happen someone sent me months ago. http://www.pistolwimp.com/media/55702/ YOu need the sound on to hear what is going on.

SunSiberians · 05-25-2007, 08:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by borzoimom

Here is a video of what would happen someone sent me months ago. http://www.pistolwimp.com/media/55702/ YOu need the sound on to hear what is going on.

OMG that what insane (I also feel guilty for laughing...). I've felt all the levels in my hand and didn't find it painful - but I'm sure that has to do with the fact that I have a lot of muscle on my hands and Lakota has a lot of fur, fat, and muscle - but on a human neck! Eek. I also have a different model, so I imagine that does make a difference. I can see how that could be bad for a skinny dog with no body fat and very little fur.

There's a woman at the dog park that rescues Staghounds - she currently owns two, but frequently fosters. Her own two wear the collars and I've always assumed it was just in case they bolted because she talks about that a lot. Those Staghounds are increadibly powerful and fast.

borzoimom · 05-25-2007, 08:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SunSiberians

OMG that what insane (I also feel guilty for laughing...). I've felt all the levels in my hand and didn't find it painful - but I'm sure that has to do with the fact that I have a lot of muscle on my hands and Lakota has a lot of fur, fat, and muscle - but on a human neck! Eek. I also have a different model, so I imagine that does make a difference. I can see how that could be bad for a skinny dog with no body fat and very little fur.

There's a woman at the dog park that rescues Staghounds - she currently owns two, but frequently fosters. Her own two wear the collars and I've always assumed it was just in case they bolted because she talks about that a lot. Those Staghounds are increadibly powerful and fast.

Well there is a two stage problem with using these collars on sighthounds. Number one is that they will run from pain- causing them to get farther away- and out of range of the use of the collar. Second - its a false sense of security as the drive to chase will override the initial warning. Lastly- a sighthound will not return when they do realize they recieved a shock- will not return to a place of pain.. I would suggest a very long check cord- however- they can easily run from 35 mph- to 45 on a sprint- and the recoil with force when it hits will either snap the dogs neck or take the person off their feet flying. Its better for her to run her dogs in a large fenced in area.. Not one single sighthound book, breed standard, breed club, or rescue will say anything but " these breeds should never be allowed to run without a fenced in area- free from small animals.."

Ginny01OT · 05-26-2007, 07:44 AM

Sunsiberian==we are up in PA and Riley is really doing great with offleash training with the ecollar. this is when I really appreciated that tool.

SunSiberians · 05-26-2007, 07:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ginny01OT

Sunsiberian==we are up in PA and Riley is really doing great with offleash training with the ecollar. this is when I really appreciated that tool.

That's fantastic. That is my main concern too. I took Lakota for a walk in the wash (dried up river bed) yesterday and let him run loose. It was amazing. There were tones of distractions. Lots of horses and dogs along the banks and he only once tried to chase after them so I told him to come with help from the collar and he did! He learned very quickly that he couldn't do that any more and after that, I just said - no and he past them, completely ignoring them! It was really wonderful. I was so proud of him.